4th Gen CCS will be available with 52V battery

[hurricane56]

The controllers are likely going to be programmed differently, but on my HF1000, Eco compensates for the extra weight of the bike and then a little more. I can get the bike moving around 20ish mph in Eco

 

[Chris Hammond]

I have watched the video. Based on that I really think I won't have a problem with attaining the riding speed I want. I live in Utah and commute from suburbs into SLC. There are plenty of small hills on my commute. Depending on my route, there is always some downhill sections where I will have my road bike over 30 mph, and as long as I don't have a headwind, I will hit 35 at least once on my ride home. Although I am sure the 48V 19Ah pack would meet my needs, I am also sure I will have perpetual regret if I don't get the 52V battery. Hopefully I get a decent tax refund to make it happen in time for the March delivery. Eglon, thanks for the offer to test your HF1000. How far south in UC are you? I live in Lehi and work in SLC so I don't head that way very often. A little worried that your big motor bike would be far to addicting though.

 

[Captain Slow]

Chris I know moving up to the biggest battery is quite a jump in price, but if you're using the bike to commute can you justify the cost in terms of reduced commuting costs? i.e. not driving? If you were otherwise taking transit, then it's harder to justify. Just a thought.

 

[Captain Slow]

Geez, after reading how much more usable the 52V pack is, I'm thinking of just charging to 100% all the time and if I have to buy a new pack sooner that just means I move up to the 52V sooner

 

[Chris Hammond]

My commuting costs are not particularly significant. I drive a car that cost $500 and I would have to keep it due to being on emergency on-call at my job, so insurance stays too. Therefore only cost savings are gas and less maintenance. On a strictly cost basis, it would be tough to justify an ebike for me. However, for me, its more about getting on my bike to commute much more consistently than I have been. I could continue to just commute on my road bike, but the ebike will definitely promote more consistent riding. Like most, I hate sitting in my car commuting, even when traffic is not bad. I have pretty well decided to go for the 52V battery. Right now I am just saving up the extra $$$ since its not available til mid March anyway.

 

[Bruce Arnold]

Hey Chris, just for fun when I was out on my ride today I did some comparisons, using the advanced data module on the LCD unit. The first test was at 15 mph (give or take .25) on a level stretch. In Eco mode, it took 4.1 amps to maintain 15 mph. In Level One, it took 6.1. These were averages of 5 tries. At 18 mph: 5.2 amps on Eco, 7.6 amps on Level One. Again, averaging 5 tries on a level road. Now that I think of it, I should have bumped up to Sport for further comparison. But this may give you some idea. Roughly, Level One takes 150% of the current draw to maintain the same speed as Eco, at both 15 and 18 mph. I understand that you like to go much faster. But this back-of-the-envelope calculation may help confirm your decision to go with the 52 volt battery and not worry about range so much.

 

[Captain Slow]

Hey Chris, just for fun when I was out on my ride today I did some comparisons, using the advanced data module on the LCD unit. The first test was at 15 mph (give or take .25) on a level stretch. In Eco mode, it took 4.1 amps to maintain 15 mph. In Level One, it took 6.1. These were averages of 5 tries. At 18 mph: 5.2 amps on Eco, 7.6 amps on Level One. Again, averaging 5 tries on a level road. Now that I think of it, I should have bumped up to Sport for further comparison. But this may give you some idea. Roughly, Level One takes 150% of the current draw to maintain the same speed as Eco, at both 15 and 18 mph. I understand that you like to go much faster. But this back-of-the-envelope calculation may help confirm your decision to go with the 52 volt battery and not worry about range so much.

That's an interesting experiment. Do you set the cruise control and just pedal?

 

[Bruce Arnold]

I didn't have the cruise control set. That's why there was a +/- 2.5 mph variance. I often use the cruise control, and maybe that would have been a good idea for the comparison.

 

[Chris Hammond]

Thanks for the comparison info Bruce. It makes sense that you would be pulling more amps at a given speed. Basically you are directing the bike to do a proportionally larger share of the work than the rider. I do agree with your suggestion that I should just go with the bigger battery to alleviate range anxiety. It will be interesting to find out what kind of speeds I can manage to average. My goal is to be able to charge the battery to 80% and have the low voltage cutoff set to 20%, in order to maximize battery longevity. Hopefully, even with these parameters, I will be able to run in S mode when conditions allow which should be roughly 60% of the 30 mile one way commute. I haven't read any reports of people complaining that they wish they had bought a smaller battery.

 

[Captain Slow]

Chris I have an 11 mile commute and I end up climbing about 140 metres to work, and about 160 metres back. I ride hard enough that my HR averages anywhere from about 135 to 160 depending on how hard I feel like riding. If I ride to work in Eco and/or 1 then I don't even see one bar drop on the battery gauge. But if I ride in 3 with some S, the battery depletes really fast.

My theory is that the upright position of the bike creates huge drag as you go faster. My experience is that with minimal motor if you're going around 25 km/hr. you hardly use the battery. But if you turn the motor up and ride around 35 - 45 km/hr. even with hard peddling, the battery drains quite fast.

If you have a 30 mile commute, unless it's completely flat or you're willing to ride slower I suspect that you'll want the biggest battery. Especially if you only want to regularly use 60% of the battery's capacity.

 

[Chris Hammond]

Agreed. I had originally planned on getting the 48V 21Ah battery that has been discontinued. The price point there was still more than I wanted, but I figured I could deal with it. Once the new battery configurations came out I was hoping I could get away with the new 19.2 Ah battery. Realistically, I probably could (it is still one of the biggest batteries available on any manufactured bike right now.) However, as you pointed out, with the speeds I want to ride at plus the distance, and the desire to charge to 80%, I will end up dissappointed with anything but the 52 V battery. If anyone hit big on a superbowl bet and want to donate to my ebike fund feel free.

 

[Bruce Arnold]

I want to repeat something I said in another thread as it's relevant here:

I'm not going to worry much about the 80-20 thing. Let's say a battery will last for 500 charging cycles. If I charge from 50% to 100%, that's a half-cycle. You should get 1000 half-cycles. If I can ride 25 miles on half a charge - the way I ride, with my 17.4 Ah battery, this is a bit conservative - then I should get 25,000 miles before the battery goes out of spec. How long will it take any of us to put 25,000 miles on a bicycle? Long before then, I'll have saved the money to buy the latest up-to-datest battery, which will probably have even more energy density than the 52 volt, 21 Ah battery now available.

These figures work with my commute. YMMV.

 

[Dunbar]

Just to clarify, it’s not the DOD that matters but the charge voltage. I can link to a video where Justin at Grin Technologies talks about this in more detail if interested. Going from 100% to 80% charge voltage will give you 3-4X as many cycles. While completely draining the battery to 0% is really bad for it that would be very hard to do in practice (especially if you set a reasonable low voltage cutoff.) See table 4 in the attached link for an illustration of charge voltage vs. cycle life.

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries

 

[Rob02150]

Pretty good video talking about 52V and 48V technology. Easy to follow.

 

[Randy Reck]

Great video, especially the last ~4mins. It's always an individual decision of power/speed v. price. I usually ride in eco or 1 running 180-350watts for my 20 mile round-trip commute. So, the 52v would give almost no benefit for me, especially at a $1,300 price premium!

 

[Chris Hammond]

Well damnit. I was just on the Juiced site. It now shows the 52V battery pack wont be available until April instead of March. I am hoping to get my tax refund soon, and waiting another 2 months sounds horrible. Riding season is fast approaching even in Utah. I have already commuted several times in January and February due to the unseasonably warm winter.
Seems like one of the biggest problems Juiced has is production delays, well that and not being able to keep up with demand. thats a nice problem for any manufacturer though.

 

[Chris Hammond]

Well, I finally bit the bullet. I just placed my order for the CCS with the 52V battery, (Ordered a large frame with brushed Aluminum finish). Now its just waiting for Juiced to get them in stock and ready to ship in April. (Well that and paying that bigger than expected bill.)

 

[Bruce Arnold]

Great choice, Chris, and worth the wait! Looking forward to seeing your review.

 

[MisterM]

Well, I finally bit the bullet. I just placed my order for the CCS with the 52V battery, (Ordered a large frame with brushed Aluminum finish). Now its just waiting for Juiced to get them in stock and ready to ship in April. (Well that and paying that bigger than expected bill.)

Juiced is way ahead of the curve with such a large battery. I cringe when I look at the Euro bikes still offering tiny motors/batteries despite huge price tags. $4-$8K and all you get is a 250/350w motor and mostly 36v14ah batteries? It's criminal what they are charging.

 

[Solom01]

MisterM, yes the Euro bikes are extremely expensive (kind of like the price difference between a Genesis and a BMW) but on top of that they are built for European use and ignore the realities of use in North America. If you've seen bike use in Denmark or the Netherlands they are traveling short distances on flat terrain in heavily congested areas. If you commuted 30 miles each way there you'd probably end up in a different country - and forget about things that are hugely helpful in the US such as a throttle or a higher speed limit - Euro regulations would require registration, licenses, insurance, etc. So maybe if you commute a few miles in NYC or San Francisco and are content with going 15mph or less the Euro bikes would make sense in that they are pretty and stylish, but for someone wanting to go over 25 miles per hour on a longish commute they're not the way to go. It's kind of like the SmartCar. If you're in a Euro urban area where there's almost no parking and speed limits are low they make sense - in the US they were a laugh and their sales reflected that.