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(#3 of 3) My 2020 SWIFT: TORQUE SENSOR BOTTOM BRACKET price is $200.00..
[[The bold fonts referred to in some follow-up posts of this thread has been replaced with Tahoma fonts for ease of reading.. ]]
[[ This/these thread(s) refer to my 2020 SWIFT ebike and are a continuation-on-a-theme. Prior to viewing this thread, you first need to read my Posting #1: https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/2020-swift-on-day-10-mileage-264.34577/
and Posting #2: https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/my-2020-swift-at-day-150-and-mileage-2-130.38726/ thread postings on this BikTrix forum. Having actually read those first 2 postings, and then reading this #3 posting, you will be completely informed, and thus be treated to a comedy show that is the equivalent of The Three Stooges, plus Laurel and Hardy, along with Navin Johnson (Steve Martin in THE JERK) ]]
So, having read my two previous threads regarding the 2020 BikTrix SWIFT ebike, you are now aware of the fact that something just did not seem “right” with how this ebike performs. I tried various options, as far as CDU (computer display unit) settings were concerned. Nothing dispelled the nagging sense that, when riding this ebike, there was probably an electrical anomaly running amok within.
[[[ Here is my Oct 27th email to BikTrix describing complete details as to the erratic behavior of my SWIFT ebike (one of 30 back-and-forth emails):
Hi,
Here are some of the items I'm dealing with in regards to my 2020 SWIFT at mileage 2,000+:
1). On level ground and cruising (not pedaling), occasionally the power suddenly kicks in for 1 or 2 seconds. This is rather unnerving since I am not anticipating same (hand off handlebar to click + or -, etc).
2). Going up an incline (equivalent to a highway overpass as far as gradient) and shifting rear derailleur from 3rd to 2nd or 1st, the power cuts out (feels dead) but everything is still “on” . The only way for me to get added boost is to press and hold the thumb throttle for the duration. This takes ALOT of battery consumption. Increasing PAS from 5of9 to higher does nothing.
3). When transitioning from sitting to standing while pedaling, sometimes the power cuts out for a few seconds. This is dangerous in the sense that I can be thrown forward (over the bars) if I'm not alert.
4). I need to use PAS 5 of 9 on smooth level terrain. Any “climb” requires 8of9, or even 9of9. I ride at weight of 200 pounds. Shouldn't I be able to use lower settings PAS 2 or 3of9, etc? My speed is usually at/below 15mph-- I'm just a cruiser and I seldom use/need the thumb throttle.. ]]]
-- So, if YOUR ebike is guilty of the above-mentioned abnormalities, by the time you have finished reading this very long thread posting, you will be completely informed as to what to do/what ebike to not spend your hard-earned $$ on. I have no loyalty to any ebike company-- my only goal is to inform potential ebike buyers on how to avoid flushing their own hard earned $$$ down the toilet.
Over the series of 30 very pleasant emails of back-and-forth inquiries/recommendations between BikTrix and myself, it was finally decided that the most likely culprit in the “e” misconduct was the torque sensor located in/on the bottom bracket. Whenever I did a tight turnaround (within the dimensions of a 10 foot wide concrete bike path), or tried to ascend a hill, the SWIFT would stop-start-stop-start hurky-jerky hiccup. However, using ONLY throttle, things were smooth . If I performed this identical maneuver on my larger, heavier (by at least 25 pounds) M2S (brand) Fat Tire ebikes, their operation was always buttery smooth. No surprises.. No power bursts.. No on/off burpy farty darting (quite dangerous, by the way). However, those two M2S ebikes use a cadence sensor at their bottom bracket-- NOT a torque sensor as is installed on my 2020 SWIFT ebike.
I had never put any thought into the gizmo known as TORQUE SENSOR-- I just figured that it was pretty much the same operating principle/price as a cadence sensor.. HOT DAMN WAS I WRONG!! So, go grab a brewski and settle in for a VERY extended read and a most valuable lesson in Ebike Component Smoke and Mirrors Fiasco .'
Well, my most recent baptism by fire is about to begin. First of all let me tell you about my personal four NEW IMPROVED criteria for any rear hub ebike purchase:
1). The battery MUST be a Reention Dorado 48v (or 52 volt) “long” battery. By “long” I mean a length of 460mm (18 inches), not 390mm (15.4 inches--the length of a 10.4ah battery). If the battery has 16ah/17ah/21ah, it is definitely a long battery.
As a sidenote: JUICED (brand) and RAD ROVER (brand) ebikes use “proprietary” batteries, which means that you are pretty much restricted to them if you want/need to purchase replacement batteries..
2). Braking system must be hydraulic, not mechanical (wire cable). I cannot understate the superiority of the hydraulic units when you are dealing with a 50-80 pound (or even heavier) motorized bicycle. If you do decide to go with mechanical brakes, you will be constantly adjusting the slack due to cable stretch.
3). Bottom Bracket Cadence Sensor is mandatory. Should you ever need to deal with a replacement unit, the cost is $20.00. And they are easy breezy to install https://support.biktrix.com/hc/en-us/articles/360033119552-Stunner-LT-Cadence-Sensor-Replacement-DIY
You will notice that this instructional link is by BikTrix AND that it is for the Stunner LT rear hub fat tire ebike. The only problem is that the 2020 Stunner LT ebike is now equipped with the $200.00 torque sensor bottom bracket. I sure am curious as to WHY BikTrix replaced the $20 cadence sensor with the $200 (pea's of chit) torque sensor. As far as I can tell, the 2020 BikTrix Stunner LT fat tire 750watt rear hub ebike is the ONLY one out there in ebike world using the torque sensor system.
All four of my other ebikes (including the two 750w fat tire ebikes) use the cadence sensor system and it works just awesome on each of them. NEVER a problem/glitch with any of them. As a matter of act, 99.9% of all Fat Tire rear hub ebikes use the bottom bracket cadence sensor system. If it ain't broke don't try to “fix” it. So, why would BikTrix do EXACTLY THAT??!! $200 wasted-- no matter how you look at it..
4). [this is a really long one] The rear hub motor MUST be a BaFang brand. My other four ebikes each uses this brand of motor. It is the holy grail of rear hub ebike world. The two M2S(brand) fat tire bikes use the 750 watt (1 horsepower) beast of a motor-- remember that it is better to have that power available and seldom use it than to need it and not have it-- especially for, basically, the same $$$ as a less powerful ebike..
My 2018 M2S (brand) KUSH (model) dual-suspension ebike is still, after 2.5 years and 16,000+ miles, purring along just as quiet AND efficient as the very first mile (its name was changed from KUSH to R750 FS in late 2020). The same goes for the 2019 M2S(brand) R750(model) at mile 7,500 after 1.5 years.. This exact same fat tire motor is still in use (and has been since at least 2017) on many 2021 fat tire ebikes which use a rear hub motor. You can locate many sources of BaFang internal gears/ motors/ components on the internet. However, the MXUS rear hub motor used on the 2020 SWIFT is pretty much non-existent out the in ebike/parts world. If it goes kaput, you are screwed-- just like for the $200 bottom bracket torque sensor (more on that item later).
Yet another item to consider: my four ebikes utilizing the Bafang rear hub/motor assembly have remained mechanically consistent for the past 3+ years/30,000+ total miles (since at least Nov. 2017-- when I purchased my first ebike). During that same time frame there have been many new mid-drive motor units, manufactured by a variety of companies (Shimano/ Bosch/ BaFang/CaaCaa-DooDoo), introduced into production. More motor varieties= more specific replacement parts. Ebike companies do not/will not have the luxury of stocking the vast diversity of components (kind of like BikTrix with the torque sensor bottom bracket-- read on).
[[As a sidenote in regards to mid-drive motors: I know zilth about them other than the internet forums-verified fact that they rapidly ruin drivetrain components-- front chainring (3,000 miles), chain (1,500 miles) rear cassette/freewheel (3,000 miles), rear derailleur (3,000 miles). For me, having 31,000 total miles on my 5 ebikes (including the 2020 SWIFT), I have replaced 1 chain, 1 rear cassette, 1 rear derailleur. All of those items were on the 2018 KUSH and were swapped out at around the 12,000 mile mark. In hindsight, I really only needed to replace the rear cassette and the chain. I will leave you to do the math in regards to a mid-drive bike(s) maintenance upkeep/$$$ with the same amount of total mileage]].
--END of my (4) criteria for any rear hub ebike purchase--
Now that I have conveyed my thoughts as to what I look for/expect in an ebike, I shall get to the crux of this thread/post: the $200.00 torque sensor bottom bracket. Want to know the differences between the 2 types of sensors??: https://ebikes.ca/learn/pedal-assist.html
Just to give you yet another angle from which to examine the cadence sensor/torque sensor fiasco, let me present the unit as used by JUICED (brand) on their ebikes: https://hilleater.ca/juiced-crosscurrent-torque-sensor/ How's that item for an attention getter?
Now, here is a 12 magnet cadence sensor, as used on both of my 750w fat tire ebikes:https://eunorau-ebike.com/collectio...s-install-on-the-right?variant=37781644673175 $12.00-- Who da thunk it? But NOOOO!!! Instead, I get a BikTrix ebike that spec's a $200 torque sensor bottom bracket consisting of Unobtainium (more on that later) material...
Need to find a torque sensing bottom bracket?? Good luck on dat crap (go ahead and Google it).. However, I did stumble upon this most interesting website: https://ebikes.ca/catalogsearch/result/index/?p=1&q=Torque+Sensing+Bottom+Bracket .. You will see that prices vary between $150 and $240.. You will also see “OUT OF STOCK” on most of the items.
A bit of advise to every ebike company: The casual ebike rider does NOT want to have to exert more energy /power/pressure to attain a faster speed-- they only want to either push a PAS button or press a thumb throttle paddle to gain that extra speed. The cadence sensor takes care of the aforementioned. A torque sensor bottom bracket requires more exertion on the pedals for additional power. It ain't rocket science, ya know.. Anyway, back to my own current dilemma.
So, after 30 emails, it was decided that BikTrix would send me a replacement torque sensor bottom bracket. And, it was done. When it arrived, I looked it over and, fortunately, discovered the “special purpose” of this type unit AND the very specific/ precise method of its' installation. A piece of cake-- now that I knew its little secrets. By the way, it is possible to install it backwards. That means it will only function when you back-pedal. Then, time for a complete dis-assembly /re-assemble. No fun at all.
So, first, I remove the black control box cover (located on the seat tube) to gain access to the connector. I trace the wire from the bottom bracket torque sensor only to discover that it is completely severed inside the black box. s*it Fire. Now I know why the SWIFT has been acting in “stupid” mode since mile #1.. I disconnect the useless wire. Then, I get out my special crankset/bottom bracket removal tools and commence the operation. Out comes the torque sensor bottom bracket gadget. No problemo. However, to my surprise the wire connection at the bottom bracket is also frayed-- a round 6-wire unit that has been flattened with multiple wires exposed (see the photo at the end of this posting)... So much for “quality control”. The replacement unit uses a flat 6-wire connector-- common sense, fer sure..
But, now that I know who the “e”culprit is (“Quality Control” at BikTrix), I go about installing the new unit. Patience is a virtue (hell yes). Everything goes according to plan.
I re-install the black cover over the control box wiring, etc. I install the ebike 48v battery and spin the crankset.. NOTHING.. Holy s*it-fire. Now what? I remove the black cover and there it is-- the new wire was completely severed. Though I was careful to re-insert all of the VERY MANY wires back inside the cover, I neglected to allow for the fact that the bottom opening (where all the wires exit the box) was not all that wide/deep and also that the base plate had a very sharp edge. If you ever need to open that black cover (Lordy help you if you do), run your fingers along that base plate. See how frigging sharp that edge is-- not razor sharp, but definitely QC “negligent” sharp.
Anyway, the very first thing I do is get my little saw and cut out the entire bottom section of the black cover. Won't ever be having wire decapitation occurring again (I can always use duct tape across the bottom). After completing that task, I removed the replacement bottom bracket unit. I didn't even get 1 wheel revolution out of it. Un-frigging-believeable.
I'm pretty good at dealing with bike maintenance stuff (I've been dinking with bikes since 1983), but this scenario had blown me completely away. Not only was BikTrix guilty of incompetence/negligence/ irresponsibility by specifying this type of sensor on a basic one thousand seven hundred dollar recreational ebike, but, by default, so was I.
I should have caught the deviation (torque vs cadence) when I first perused their website when considering the purchase of this one thousand seven hundred dollar ebike. But, then again, who would have factored in such a “trivial” item??
Now, onto the internet to email BikTrix in regards to my latest adventure. After explaining my debacle and pointing out their unacceptable “quality control” system (also referenced in post #1 and #2), I received the following reply:
(( Removed by moderator - posting private discussions is against forum rules ))
TWO HUNDRED DOLLARS!!! Jezzus H. This item is just a $20 run-of-the-mill basic bottom bracket with a thin sensing unit wrapped around the main body. I sure as hell DID NOT see $200, or even $100 for this joke of a device. Why in the heck would BikTrix spec such a convoluted piece of ebike technology on a one thousand seven hundred dollar pure street cruiser-style ebike?? My god, neither of my two Fat Tire beasts (nor any other ebike brand) utilizes this system!!! Oops, my bad-- the 2020 STUNNER LT fat tire/rear hub ebike also uses the torque sensing bottom bracket, as does RIDE1UP (brand) on their $1,800 LMT'D ebike-- buyer beware.. $200.. $200.. $200.. RIDE1UP also uses the same 1,000watt(?) MXUS rear hub motor on some models.. Lucky you..
On Dec 2nd (31 days ago), I placed the order for the $100 replacement sensor (yahoo!! Lucky me.. A $100 discount. Back flips, etc.). By Dec 18th I still had not heard from BikTrix in regards to the shipping of unit #3. Also, since I now had 2 basically useless $200 bottom brackets (a total of $400-- say that a few times) setting in my living room, I sent off an email to BikTrix:
And here is BikTrix response:
As you can see from their response, the issue of cables being cut is apparently NOT an uncommon occurrence. And yet, they CONTINUE to install this bullsheet gizmo on their products.
And, they do not even know who/where their component manufacturer(s) location is. Mighty pathetic, fer sure. I guess that is what you get when you only pay one thousand seven hundred dollars for what is a basic ebike. Maybe if their component-of-choice was a $20 cadence sensor unit INSTEAD of a $200 torque sensor unit, things would be better all around. Also, I most definitely believe that paying $50 (?) worth of shipping costs to send $400 worth of bottom brackets back to the factory in China for repair is not at all out of the question (apparently, with this product, you can never have too many on hand). DUH!!
In addition, during the course of the 30 emails, I asked if I could install a magnetic Cadence System to replace the Torque Sensor system:
me: Also, do I have the option of being able to install a normal ebikes magnetic ring/electronic pickup (flashing red light) system at the bottom bracket axle, if I choose to do so. I know that cadence sensors have this setup.. Just wondering..
BikTrix: Unfortunately, this is not possible as the controller does not have a separate input for registering cadence.
Warm Regards, XXXX
So, If I should decide to go to the trouble of doing BikTrix's job for them, I would need to locate and purchase another controller box that is compatible with the basically nonexistent MXUS rear hub motor and which also has Cadence Sensor plug-in capability and is compatible with the SWIFTs peas o' chit multi-color handlebar mounted computer display unit (cdu). See the ripple effect when a product is not “correct” from the get-go?? What to do?? What to do??
For now, I will await the arrival of the 3rd torque sensor unit because, never having had to deal with this gizmo, I am definitely very curious as to how it actually conducts its' $200 real-world bicycling business as compared to the magnificent performance of the $20 cadence sensor installations on my other 4 ebikes.
Today is Jan 1, 2021.. Still no delivery information. Hey, I know: maybe BikTrix needs to go to this website to buy the correct (hopefully) torque sensor bottom bracket for my SWIFT ebike: https://ebikes.ca/catalogsearch/result/index/?p=1&q=Torque+Sensing+Bottom+Bracket After all, $100 out-of-pocket shouldn't bother them-- it sure didn't bother me to do so.
My 2020 SWIFT arrived on May 28, 2020. It's 1-year warranty period is up on May 27, 2021. However, since I am “without” my ebike (since Dec 2nd) until the 3rd sensor arrives, do I get an “extension” of the warranty based upon how damn long it takes to actually deliver the new sensor?
If I have any further “situations” with this “quality (very questionable)” one thousand seven hundred dollar ebike, will I be able to send it back to BikTrix for a refund?? After all, if they cannot deliver initially on “quality” issues, AND since they cannot deliver on inventory stocking issues, they don't deserve to retain possession of my (or your) hard earned one thousand seven hundred dollars.
My take on the 2020 SWIFT ebike:
It is not worth $1,700 because it uses a torque sensor bottom bracket.
It is not worth $1,500 because it uses a basically non-existent MXUS rear hub motor.
It is worth $1,300 only because it uses the Reention Dorado 48v “long” battery and a hydraulic disc brake system.
Remember Studebaker? Rambler? DeLorean?-- automobile companies that no longer exist because of??? Maybe BikTrix will be included in the ebike equivalent thereof. Not totally undeserved, fer sure..
From reading various forum postings, it seems that the vast majority of ebike riders do not perform their own repairs/maintenance/tire changes. Instead, they go to their Local Bike Shop (LBS). However, those same shops can, and will, refuse to deal with these ebikes due to an unwillingness to take the chance of their own liability to have to replace a $200 torque sensor bottom bracket (or whatever) due to a wire being inadvertently snipped-- even if that item was not the intended repair. Strange things can/will occur when you are dealing with lots and lots of ebike wires. THEN you, the ebike owner, are really gonna be screwed. Just some food for thought.
As for a comfortable and dependable ebike: pretty much any Fat Tire ebike that uses the BaFang 750 watt rear hub motor. Said ebike can use 26” tires ,or 24” tires, or even 20” tires. I am seeing more and more 20” fat tire ebikes out on the local bike paths and they appear to be quite fun/nimble/ maneuverable. Some of them are straddled by very large mammals (250+ pounds) and they still git down the road like a scared rabbit. Here is one excellent example and it costs the same as the 2020 BikTrix SWIFT ebike: https://shop.m2sbikes.com/collections/all-terrain-electric-bike-series/products/all-terrain-scout
Another deed to do: go get a square of toilet paper.. use a sharpie to write “$1,700.00” on it.. go to the bathroom.. throw the paper into the toilet bowl.. flush.. that is ONE example of flushing one thousand seven hundred dollars down the crapper. Another option: buy the BikTrix SWIFT ebike.
By the way, I fully expect to have to “eat” this newest unworthy toy, but at least I have been able to (hopefully) save you from the exact same $1,700 fate.
My corral of ebikes (all are rear hub motor):
#1. [Oct 2017--1,500 miles] 2018 Xtreme(brand) TrailMaster Elite.. BaFang 250watt motor/9.6ah 24v battery($849): https://www.ebay.com/i/361493378890?rt=nc&_trkparms=aid=1110006&algo=HOMESPLICE.
#2. [Dec 2017-- 3,879 miles] 2018 Xtreme (brand) Sedona.. BaFang 500watt motor/10.4ah 48v battery.. ($1600): https://www.ebay.com/itm/X-treme-Se...in-Bike-Blk-/122088413914?hash=item1c6d095ada
#3. [May 2018-- 15,788 miles] 2018 M2S(brand) KUSH dual-suspension.. BaFang 750watt motor/16ah 48v battery.. ($1,800): https://shop.m2sbikes.com/collectio...es/products/full-suspension-electric-fat-bike
#4. [May 2019--7,425 miles] 2019 M2S (brand) R750.. BaFang 750watt motor/16ah 48v battery (the step-thru model uses 24” fat tires).($1,600): https://shop.m2sbikes.com/collectio...series/products/all-terrain-electric-fat-bike
#5. [May 2020-- 2,397 miles] 2020 BikTrix (brand) SWIFT.. MXUS 1000watt(?) motor/14.5ah 48v battery($1,700): https://www.biktrix.com/pages/swift-details
Hmm.. Interesting: the BikTrix website now (on Jan 1, 2021) shows the SWIFT to be equipped with a CADENCE SENSOR.. I wonder what's up wit dat??? Time will tell.
The reason I posted my 5 ebikes and their prices is because #1, #2, and #5 are each basically an overpriced peas o' chit in their own special way (for what you actually get $$$ wise)– so, that is a total of $4,149 down der terlet. Now, where is my sharpie pen and a sheet of toilet paper? But lessons learned-- or is it??
As for #3 and #4: I was SO impressed by #3 that I went ahead and bought #4, too. A total of $3,400 very well spent. I just wish that #3 would have been ebike #1, but, live and learn. I try to go on a 50 mile ride every day and I know that I can hop on either #3 or #4 and they will flat out get the job done—beautifully.. By the way, my “out-the-door ebike riding” weight is 205 pounds.
So, ya win a few/ya lose a few.. You, the reader, can either learn from my mistakes-- or not..
Well, that's all for now.
In regards to the photo: the unit at the bottom is the original installation. Magnify the photo and examine bottom bracket/wire juncture. See the flattened/frayed wires? Also, notice that both wires have been cut at exactly the same length (going into the black controller box). BikTrix “Quality Control” at work..
HAPPY HOLIDAYS
[[The bold fonts referred to in some follow-up posts of this thread has been replaced with Tahoma fonts for ease of reading.. ]]
[[ This/these thread(s) refer to my 2020 SWIFT ebike and are a continuation-on-a-theme. Prior to viewing this thread, you first need to read my Posting #1: https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/2020-swift-on-day-10-mileage-264.34577/
and Posting #2: https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/my-2020-swift-at-day-150-and-mileage-2-130.38726/ thread postings on this BikTrix forum. Having actually read those first 2 postings, and then reading this #3 posting, you will be completely informed, and thus be treated to a comedy show that is the equivalent of The Three Stooges, plus Laurel and Hardy, along with Navin Johnson (Steve Martin in THE JERK) ]]
So, having read my two previous threads regarding the 2020 BikTrix SWIFT ebike, you are now aware of the fact that something just did not seem “right” with how this ebike performs. I tried various options, as far as CDU (computer display unit) settings were concerned. Nothing dispelled the nagging sense that, when riding this ebike, there was probably an electrical anomaly running amok within.
[[[ Here is my Oct 27th email to BikTrix describing complete details as to the erratic behavior of my SWIFT ebike (one of 30 back-and-forth emails):
Hi,
Here are some of the items I'm dealing with in regards to my 2020 SWIFT at mileage 2,000+:
1). On level ground and cruising (not pedaling), occasionally the power suddenly kicks in for 1 or 2 seconds. This is rather unnerving since I am not anticipating same (hand off handlebar to click + or -, etc).
2). Going up an incline (equivalent to a highway overpass as far as gradient) and shifting rear derailleur from 3rd to 2nd or 1st, the power cuts out (feels dead) but everything is still “on” . The only way for me to get added boost is to press and hold the thumb throttle for the duration. This takes ALOT of battery consumption. Increasing PAS from 5of9 to higher does nothing.
3). When transitioning from sitting to standing while pedaling, sometimes the power cuts out for a few seconds. This is dangerous in the sense that I can be thrown forward (over the bars) if I'm not alert.
4). I need to use PAS 5 of 9 on smooth level terrain. Any “climb” requires 8of9, or even 9of9. I ride at weight of 200 pounds. Shouldn't I be able to use lower settings PAS 2 or 3of9, etc? My speed is usually at/below 15mph-- I'm just a cruiser and I seldom use/need the thumb throttle.. ]]]
-- So, if YOUR ebike is guilty of the above-mentioned abnormalities, by the time you have finished reading this very long thread posting, you will be completely informed as to what to do/what ebike to not spend your hard-earned $$ on. I have no loyalty to any ebike company-- my only goal is to inform potential ebike buyers on how to avoid flushing their own hard earned $$$ down the toilet.
Over the series of 30 very pleasant emails of back-and-forth inquiries/recommendations between BikTrix and myself, it was finally decided that the most likely culprit in the “e” misconduct was the torque sensor located in/on the bottom bracket. Whenever I did a tight turnaround (within the dimensions of a 10 foot wide concrete bike path), or tried to ascend a hill, the SWIFT would stop-start-stop-start hurky-jerky hiccup. However, using ONLY throttle, things were smooth . If I performed this identical maneuver on my larger, heavier (by at least 25 pounds) M2S (brand) Fat Tire ebikes, their operation was always buttery smooth. No surprises.. No power bursts.. No on/off burpy farty darting (quite dangerous, by the way). However, those two M2S ebikes use a cadence sensor at their bottom bracket-- NOT a torque sensor as is installed on my 2020 SWIFT ebike.
I had never put any thought into the gizmo known as TORQUE SENSOR-- I just figured that it was pretty much the same operating principle/price as a cadence sensor.. HOT DAMN WAS I WRONG!! So, go grab a brewski and settle in for a VERY extended read and a most valuable lesson in Ebike Component Smoke and Mirrors Fiasco .'
Well, my most recent baptism by fire is about to begin. First of all let me tell you about my personal four NEW IMPROVED criteria for any rear hub ebike purchase:
1). The battery MUST be a Reention Dorado 48v (or 52 volt) “long” battery. By “long” I mean a length of 460mm (18 inches), not 390mm (15.4 inches--the length of a 10.4ah battery). If the battery has 16ah/17ah/21ah, it is definitely a long battery.
As a sidenote: JUICED (brand) and RAD ROVER (brand) ebikes use “proprietary” batteries, which means that you are pretty much restricted to them if you want/need to purchase replacement batteries..
2). Braking system must be hydraulic, not mechanical (wire cable). I cannot understate the superiority of the hydraulic units when you are dealing with a 50-80 pound (or even heavier) motorized bicycle. If you do decide to go with mechanical brakes, you will be constantly adjusting the slack due to cable stretch.
3). Bottom Bracket Cadence Sensor is mandatory. Should you ever need to deal with a replacement unit, the cost is $20.00. And they are easy breezy to install https://support.biktrix.com/hc/en-us/articles/360033119552-Stunner-LT-Cadence-Sensor-Replacement-DIY
You will notice that this instructional link is by BikTrix AND that it is for the Stunner LT rear hub fat tire ebike. The only problem is that the 2020 Stunner LT ebike is now equipped with the $200.00 torque sensor bottom bracket. I sure am curious as to WHY BikTrix replaced the $20 cadence sensor with the $200 (pea's of chit) torque sensor. As far as I can tell, the 2020 BikTrix Stunner LT fat tire 750watt rear hub ebike is the ONLY one out there in ebike world using the torque sensor system.
All four of my other ebikes (including the two 750w fat tire ebikes) use the cadence sensor system and it works just awesome on each of them. NEVER a problem/glitch with any of them. As a matter of act, 99.9% of all Fat Tire rear hub ebikes use the bottom bracket cadence sensor system. If it ain't broke don't try to “fix” it. So, why would BikTrix do EXACTLY THAT??!! $200 wasted-- no matter how you look at it..
4). [this is a really long one] The rear hub motor MUST be a BaFang brand. My other four ebikes each uses this brand of motor. It is the holy grail of rear hub ebike world. The two M2S(brand) fat tire bikes use the 750 watt (1 horsepower) beast of a motor-- remember that it is better to have that power available and seldom use it than to need it and not have it-- especially for, basically, the same $$$ as a less powerful ebike..
My 2018 M2S (brand) KUSH (model) dual-suspension ebike is still, after 2.5 years and 16,000+ miles, purring along just as quiet AND efficient as the very first mile (its name was changed from KUSH to R750 FS in late 2020). The same goes for the 2019 M2S(brand) R750(model) at mile 7,500 after 1.5 years.. This exact same fat tire motor is still in use (and has been since at least 2017) on many 2021 fat tire ebikes which use a rear hub motor. You can locate many sources of BaFang internal gears/ motors/ components on the internet. However, the MXUS rear hub motor used on the 2020 SWIFT is pretty much non-existent out the in ebike/parts world. If it goes kaput, you are screwed-- just like for the $200 bottom bracket torque sensor (more on that item later).
Yet another item to consider: my four ebikes utilizing the Bafang rear hub/motor assembly have remained mechanically consistent for the past 3+ years/30,000+ total miles (since at least Nov. 2017-- when I purchased my first ebike). During that same time frame there have been many new mid-drive motor units, manufactured by a variety of companies (Shimano/ Bosch/ BaFang/CaaCaa-DooDoo), introduced into production. More motor varieties= more specific replacement parts. Ebike companies do not/will not have the luxury of stocking the vast diversity of components (kind of like BikTrix with the torque sensor bottom bracket-- read on).
[[As a sidenote in regards to mid-drive motors: I know zilth about them other than the internet forums-verified fact that they rapidly ruin drivetrain components-- front chainring (3,000 miles), chain (1,500 miles) rear cassette/freewheel (3,000 miles), rear derailleur (3,000 miles). For me, having 31,000 total miles on my 5 ebikes (including the 2020 SWIFT), I have replaced 1 chain, 1 rear cassette, 1 rear derailleur. All of those items were on the 2018 KUSH and were swapped out at around the 12,000 mile mark. In hindsight, I really only needed to replace the rear cassette and the chain. I will leave you to do the math in regards to a mid-drive bike(s) maintenance upkeep/$$$ with the same amount of total mileage]].
--END of my (4) criteria for any rear hub ebike purchase--
Now that I have conveyed my thoughts as to what I look for/expect in an ebike, I shall get to the crux of this thread/post: the $200.00 torque sensor bottom bracket. Want to know the differences between the 2 types of sensors??: https://ebikes.ca/learn/pedal-assist.html
Just to give you yet another angle from which to examine the cadence sensor/torque sensor fiasco, let me present the unit as used by JUICED (brand) on their ebikes: https://hilleater.ca/juiced-crosscurrent-torque-sensor/ How's that item for an attention getter?
Now, here is a 12 magnet cadence sensor, as used on both of my 750w fat tire ebikes:https://eunorau-ebike.com/collectio...s-install-on-the-right?variant=37781644673175 $12.00-- Who da thunk it? But NOOOO!!! Instead, I get a BikTrix ebike that spec's a $200 torque sensor bottom bracket consisting of Unobtainium (more on that later) material...
Need to find a torque sensing bottom bracket?? Good luck on dat crap (go ahead and Google it).. However, I did stumble upon this most interesting website: https://ebikes.ca/catalogsearch/result/index/?p=1&q=Torque+Sensing+Bottom+Bracket .. You will see that prices vary between $150 and $240.. You will also see “OUT OF STOCK” on most of the items.
A bit of advise to every ebike company: The casual ebike rider does NOT want to have to exert more energy /power/pressure to attain a faster speed-- they only want to either push a PAS button or press a thumb throttle paddle to gain that extra speed. The cadence sensor takes care of the aforementioned. A torque sensor bottom bracket requires more exertion on the pedals for additional power. It ain't rocket science, ya know.. Anyway, back to my own current dilemma.
So, after 30 emails, it was decided that BikTrix would send me a replacement torque sensor bottom bracket. And, it was done. When it arrived, I looked it over and, fortunately, discovered the “special purpose” of this type unit AND the very specific/ precise method of its' installation. A piece of cake-- now that I knew its little secrets. By the way, it is possible to install it backwards. That means it will only function when you back-pedal. Then, time for a complete dis-assembly /re-assemble. No fun at all.
So, first, I remove the black control box cover (located on the seat tube) to gain access to the connector. I trace the wire from the bottom bracket torque sensor only to discover that it is completely severed inside the black box. s*it Fire. Now I know why the SWIFT has been acting in “stupid” mode since mile #1.. I disconnect the useless wire. Then, I get out my special crankset/bottom bracket removal tools and commence the operation. Out comes the torque sensor bottom bracket gadget. No problemo. However, to my surprise the wire connection at the bottom bracket is also frayed-- a round 6-wire unit that has been flattened with multiple wires exposed (see the photo at the end of this posting)... So much for “quality control”. The replacement unit uses a flat 6-wire connector-- common sense, fer sure..
But, now that I know who the “e”culprit is (“Quality Control” at BikTrix), I go about installing the new unit. Patience is a virtue (hell yes). Everything goes according to plan.
I re-install the black cover over the control box wiring, etc. I install the ebike 48v battery and spin the crankset.. NOTHING.. Holy s*it-fire. Now what? I remove the black cover and there it is-- the new wire was completely severed. Though I was careful to re-insert all of the VERY MANY wires back inside the cover, I neglected to allow for the fact that the bottom opening (where all the wires exit the box) was not all that wide/deep and also that the base plate had a very sharp edge. If you ever need to open that black cover (Lordy help you if you do), run your fingers along that base plate. See how frigging sharp that edge is-- not razor sharp, but definitely QC “negligent” sharp.
Anyway, the very first thing I do is get my little saw and cut out the entire bottom section of the black cover. Won't ever be having wire decapitation occurring again (I can always use duct tape across the bottom). After completing that task, I removed the replacement bottom bracket unit. I didn't even get 1 wheel revolution out of it. Un-frigging-believeable.
I'm pretty good at dealing with bike maintenance stuff (I've been dinking with bikes since 1983), but this scenario had blown me completely away. Not only was BikTrix guilty of incompetence/negligence/ irresponsibility by specifying this type of sensor on a basic one thousand seven hundred dollar recreational ebike, but, by default, so was I.
I should have caught the deviation (torque vs cadence) when I first perused their website when considering the purchase of this one thousand seven hundred dollar ebike. But, then again, who would have factored in such a “trivial” item??
Now, onto the internet to email BikTrix in regards to my latest adventure. After explaining my debacle and pointing out their unacceptable “quality control” system (also referenced in post #1 and #2), I received the following reply:
(( Removed by moderator - posting private discussions is against forum rules ))
TWO HUNDRED DOLLARS!!! Jezzus H. This item is just a $20 run-of-the-mill basic bottom bracket with a thin sensing unit wrapped around the main body. I sure as hell DID NOT see $200, or even $100 for this joke of a device. Why in the heck would BikTrix spec such a convoluted piece of ebike technology on a one thousand seven hundred dollar pure street cruiser-style ebike?? My god, neither of my two Fat Tire beasts (nor any other ebike brand) utilizes this system!!! Oops, my bad-- the 2020 STUNNER LT fat tire/rear hub ebike also uses the torque sensing bottom bracket, as does RIDE1UP (brand) on their $1,800 LMT'D ebike-- buyer beware.. $200.. $200.. $200.. RIDE1UP also uses the same 1,000watt(?) MXUS rear hub motor on some models.. Lucky you..
On Dec 2nd (31 days ago), I placed the order for the $100 replacement sensor (yahoo!! Lucky me.. A $100 discount. Back flips, etc.). By Dec 18th I still had not heard from BikTrix in regards to the shipping of unit #3. Also, since I now had 2 basically useless $200 bottom brackets (a total of $400-- say that a few times) setting in my living room, I sent off an email to BikTrix:
| Dec 18, 2020 HI, Any idea as to when this gadget/sensor is going to actually ship?? Also, I need to get the address of the company that assembles this item so I can see if I can ship my 2 current sensors to them for installation of a new wire cable. I already own two of these contraptions: #1 has 2,300 miles total on it.. #2 has ZERO miles on it. Pretty good waste of $$$ for $200 (retail) per pathetic unit.. zzzzz |
And here is BikTrix response:
| (( Removed by moderator - posting private discussions is against forum rules )) |
And, they do not even know who/where their component manufacturer(s) location is. Mighty pathetic, fer sure. I guess that is what you get when you only pay one thousand seven hundred dollars for what is a basic ebike. Maybe if their component-of-choice was a $20 cadence sensor unit INSTEAD of a $200 torque sensor unit, things would be better all around. Also, I most definitely believe that paying $50 (?) worth of shipping costs to send $400 worth of bottom brackets back to the factory in China for repair is not at all out of the question (apparently, with this product, you can never have too many on hand). DUH!!
In addition, during the course of the 30 emails, I asked if I could install a magnetic Cadence System to replace the Torque Sensor system:
me: Also, do I have the option of being able to install a normal ebikes magnetic ring/electronic pickup (flashing red light) system at the bottom bracket axle, if I choose to do so. I know that cadence sensors have this setup.. Just wondering..
BikTrix: Unfortunately, this is not possible as the controller does not have a separate input for registering cadence.
Warm Regards, XXXX
So, If I should decide to go to the trouble of doing BikTrix's job for them, I would need to locate and purchase another controller box that is compatible with the basically nonexistent MXUS rear hub motor and which also has Cadence Sensor plug-in capability and is compatible with the SWIFTs peas o' chit multi-color handlebar mounted computer display unit (cdu). See the ripple effect when a product is not “correct” from the get-go?? What to do?? What to do??
For now, I will await the arrival of the 3rd torque sensor unit because, never having had to deal with this gizmo, I am definitely very curious as to how it actually conducts its' $200 real-world bicycling business as compared to the magnificent performance of the $20 cadence sensor installations on my other 4 ebikes.
Today is Jan 1, 2021.. Still no delivery information. Hey, I know: maybe BikTrix needs to go to this website to buy the correct (hopefully) torque sensor bottom bracket for my SWIFT ebike: https://ebikes.ca/catalogsearch/result/index/?p=1&q=Torque+Sensing+Bottom+Bracket After all, $100 out-of-pocket shouldn't bother them-- it sure didn't bother me to do so.
My 2020 SWIFT arrived on May 28, 2020. It's 1-year warranty period is up on May 27, 2021. However, since I am “without” my ebike (since Dec 2nd) until the 3rd sensor arrives, do I get an “extension” of the warranty based upon how damn long it takes to actually deliver the new sensor?
If I have any further “situations” with this “quality (very questionable)” one thousand seven hundred dollar ebike, will I be able to send it back to BikTrix for a refund?? After all, if they cannot deliver initially on “quality” issues, AND since they cannot deliver on inventory stocking issues, they don't deserve to retain possession of my (or your) hard earned one thousand seven hundred dollars.
My take on the 2020 SWIFT ebike:
It is not worth $1,700 because it uses a torque sensor bottom bracket.
It is not worth $1,500 because it uses a basically non-existent MXUS rear hub motor.
It is worth $1,300 only because it uses the Reention Dorado 48v “long” battery and a hydraulic disc brake system.
Remember Studebaker? Rambler? DeLorean?-- automobile companies that no longer exist because of??? Maybe BikTrix will be included in the ebike equivalent thereof. Not totally undeserved, fer sure..
From reading various forum postings, it seems that the vast majority of ebike riders do not perform their own repairs/maintenance/tire changes. Instead, they go to their Local Bike Shop (LBS). However, those same shops can, and will, refuse to deal with these ebikes due to an unwillingness to take the chance of their own liability to have to replace a $200 torque sensor bottom bracket (or whatever) due to a wire being inadvertently snipped-- even if that item was not the intended repair. Strange things can/will occur when you are dealing with lots and lots of ebike wires. THEN you, the ebike owner, are really gonna be screwed. Just some food for thought.
As for a comfortable and dependable ebike: pretty much any Fat Tire ebike that uses the BaFang 750 watt rear hub motor. Said ebike can use 26” tires ,or 24” tires, or even 20” tires. I am seeing more and more 20” fat tire ebikes out on the local bike paths and they appear to be quite fun/nimble/ maneuverable. Some of them are straddled by very large mammals (250+ pounds) and they still git down the road like a scared rabbit. Here is one excellent example and it costs the same as the 2020 BikTrix SWIFT ebike: https://shop.m2sbikes.com/collections/all-terrain-electric-bike-series/products/all-terrain-scout
Another deed to do: go get a square of toilet paper.. use a sharpie to write “$1,700.00” on it.. go to the bathroom.. throw the paper into the toilet bowl.. flush.. that is ONE example of flushing one thousand seven hundred dollars down the crapper. Another option: buy the BikTrix SWIFT ebike.
By the way, I fully expect to have to “eat” this newest unworthy toy, but at least I have been able to (hopefully) save you from the exact same $1,700 fate.
My corral of ebikes (all are rear hub motor):
#1. [Oct 2017--1,500 miles] 2018 Xtreme(brand) TrailMaster Elite.. BaFang 250watt motor/9.6ah 24v battery($849): https://www.ebay.com/i/361493378890?rt=nc&_trkparms=aid=1110006&algo=HOMESPLICE.
#2. [Dec 2017-- 3,879 miles] 2018 Xtreme (brand) Sedona.. BaFang 500watt motor/10.4ah 48v battery.. ($1600): https://www.ebay.com/itm/X-treme-Se...in-Bike-Blk-/122088413914?hash=item1c6d095ada
#3. [May 2018-- 15,788 miles] 2018 M2S(brand) KUSH dual-suspension.. BaFang 750watt motor/16ah 48v battery.. ($1,800): https://shop.m2sbikes.com/collectio...es/products/full-suspension-electric-fat-bike
#4. [May 2019--7,425 miles] 2019 M2S (brand) R750.. BaFang 750watt motor/16ah 48v battery (the step-thru model uses 24” fat tires).($1,600): https://shop.m2sbikes.com/collectio...series/products/all-terrain-electric-fat-bike
#5. [May 2020-- 2,397 miles] 2020 BikTrix (brand) SWIFT.. MXUS 1000watt(?) motor/14.5ah 48v battery($1,700): https://www.biktrix.com/pages/swift-details
Hmm.. Interesting: the BikTrix website now (on Jan 1, 2021) shows the SWIFT to be equipped with a CADENCE SENSOR.. I wonder what's up wit dat??? Time will tell.
The reason I posted my 5 ebikes and their prices is because #1, #2, and #5 are each basically an overpriced peas o' chit in their own special way (for what you actually get $$$ wise)– so, that is a total of $4,149 down der terlet. Now, where is my sharpie pen and a sheet of toilet paper? But lessons learned-- or is it??
As for #3 and #4: I was SO impressed by #3 that I went ahead and bought #4, too. A total of $3,400 very well spent. I just wish that #3 would have been ebike #1, but, live and learn. I try to go on a 50 mile ride every day and I know that I can hop on either #3 or #4 and they will flat out get the job done—beautifully.. By the way, my “out-the-door ebike riding” weight is 205 pounds.
So, ya win a few/ya lose a few.. You, the reader, can either learn from my mistakes-- or not..
Well, that's all for now.
In regards to the photo: the unit at the bottom is the original installation. Magnify the photo and examine bottom bracket/wire juncture. See the flattened/frayed wires? Also, notice that both wires have been cut at exactly the same length (going into the black controller box). BikTrix “Quality Control” at work.. HAPPY HOLIDAYS
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