$1500 to spend at Alibaba

[Fr0d0]

I'm not US based so sadly those bikes available in the US are not available to me.

I live in hilly Wales, UK. I want a bike for recreational use. There are a couple of short steep hills to home of about 100m length each.

I've been researching hard for a month, trying hard not to fall foul of distance buying traps. I found a bike on dhgate that was $800 delivered compared to $1600 on Amazon. Cheap or no name parts tho so I got cold feet. The sellers were new and small so I had little trust.

I've been looking at rear hub motors because I thought they sounded most practical.. surely a mid mounted motor wears the crank and sprockets where a hub motor is more direct. But it seems I was wrong. A mid mounted motor is exactly what I need for hills?
I'd like to be able to hit 25mph very occasionally but torque is more important.
I was looking at 750-1000w hub motors. What would be a good size mid mounted motor?

What do you you think of these?

Find quality Manufacturers, Suppliers, Exporters, Importers, Buyers, Wholesalers, Products and Trade Leads from our award-winning International Trade Site. Import & Export on alibaba.com

Find quality Manufacturers, Suppliers, Exporters, Importers, Buyers, Wholesalers, Products and Trade Leads from our award-winning International Trade Site. Import & Export on alibaba.com

app.alibaba.com

Find quality Manufacturers, Suppliers, Exporters, Importers, Buyers, Wholesalers, Products and Trade Leads from our award-winning International Trade Site. Import & Export on alibaba.com

Find quality Manufacturers, Suppliers, Exporters, Importers, Buyers, Wholesalers, Products and Trade Leads from our award-winning International Trade Site. Import & Export on alibaba.com

app.alibaba.com

Anyone know anything about "8FUN" motors? They seem to be common and there's some suggestion that they're made by Bafang??

Thanks for your help
Mark

 

[Fr0d0]

Ok 8Fun and Bafang are the same company.. Court did a video on it.. Although I've seen torque sensors paired with the 8Fun so I wonder if it is as sophisticated as other mid drive motors??

 

[J.R.]

Both of your links require downloading the alibaba app. I'm not doing that, so I couldn't open your links. Maybe others feel the same. You might want to post links from an internet browser.

 

[tomjasz]

Many Aliexpress companies are a coin toss. Sadly most here never mention the Aliexpress seller when reviewing. Typically Alibaba is a reseller site. Be careful.
You may or may not get what you pay for.

 

[Fr0d0]

Both of your links require downloading the alibaba app. I'm not doing that, so I couldn't open your links. Maybe others feel the same. You might want to post links from an internet browser.

Apologies for that. I did think those links looked a bit odd!

Thanks for replying anyway

What I really want to know is what people think I will need for my situation, motor wise.

 

[Fr0d0]

Many Aliexpress companies are a coin toss. Sadly most here never mention the Aliexpress seller when reviewing. Typically Alibaba is a reseller site. Be careful.
You may or may not get what you pay for.

Indeed, and noted. Unfortunately in Europe we have no other option if we want to pay less than several thousand, which I don't want to do.

I've never had problems from any Chinese sites, and I use them a lot. Alibaba has more checks than most and with rigerous due diligence I believe it possible to find reputable sellers.

If I were in the US or indeed had a mountain of cash under the floorboards things would be different

Thanks for looking out for me

 

[Fr0d0]

This link opens in a browser:

This product is no longer available.

This product is no longer available.

m.alibaba.com

Updated.. Wrong link!!

 

[tomjasz]

goofy battery design! Whose case is that?

 

[Fr0d0]

Really? Looks pretty vanilla to me . Not got the specs through yet. Have to wait a few hours for daytime to roll around in China

BTW I'm not sure about style of bike or wheels at all.
I've gone from regular commuter - puncture resistant 2" tyres, 26*4" fat bike to 20*4" fat bike for the torque. Looking at mid motor now has reset everything again

 

[indianajo]

I ride a geared hub drive up a number of 50 m hills with 15% grades, which is steep. 7/8" rise on a 6" machinist's level. I carry 60 lb groceries, gross weight is 330 lb. My geared hub motor, a $221 48 v generic from ebikeling, will start the load on that grade and accelerate up to 6 mph. If I hit the grade with momentum, it will maintain 12 or 15 mph up the grade. Just wore out the motor, got about 5000 miles out of it for $221. New geared hub motor is a Mac 12, took me about a day to change over. Seems to use less watt hours for the same speeds as the ebikeling motor. Cost about $560 with wheel and a no PAS controller, just throttle.
Mid drives are required for grades requiring maximum power for 15 minutes or more, which will overheat a geared hub motor and short the winding. In Europe you'll get up steep grades pretty slowly on a mid drive with the mandatory 250 watts, but with enough gear ratios you can be unstoppable. Downside, cost, frequent chain maintenance. I get 5000 miles per chain with a geared hub drive. Plus with a geared hub drive, if I twist my knee out at my summer camp & it becomes unuseable, the motor & throttle will pull me home with no pedaling. No call to the ambulance required, just come home & rest a week or two.

 

[Ebiker01]

The aliexpress ebike if it has issues and most likely it will, will end up useless.
Then you will either have to save up to get a 3-4k ebike on sale for maybe 1.7k , which is a great deal, or buy another clunker fom alibaba. There are many deals , esp. there in EU, you have many people getting ebikes.
So, just look up at a few stores for their on sale section for ebikes !

 

[Fr0d0]

I ride a geared hub drive up a number of 50 m hills with 15% grades, which is steep. 7/8" rise on a 6" machinist's level. I carry 60 lb groceries, gross weight is 330 lb. My geared hub motor, a $221 48 v generic from ebikeling, will start the load on that grade and accelerate up to 6 mph. If I hit the grade with momentum, it will maintain 12 or 15 mph up the grade. Just wore out the motor, got about 5000 miles out of it for $221. New geared hub motor is a Mac 12, took me about a day to change over. Seems to use less watt hours for the same speeds as the ebikeling motor. Cost about $560 with wheel and a no PAS controller, just throttle.
Mid drives are required for grades requiring maximum power for 15 minutes or more, which will overheat a geared hub motor and short the winding. In Europe you'll get up steep grades pretty slowly on a mid drive with the mandatory 250 watts, but with enough gear ratios you can be unstoppable. Downside, cost, frequent chain maintenance. I get 5000 miles per chain with a geared hub drive. Plus with a geared hub drive, if I twist my knee out at my summer camp & it becomes unuseable, the motor & throttle will pull me home with no pedaling. No call to the ambulance required, just come home & rest a week or two.

Interesting, thanks. Interesting to hear a real world experience of steep hill climbing with a rear motor. That Mac 12 is a monster. I've done plenty bike maintenance but I don't fancy it now.

 

[Fr0d0]

The aliexpress ebike if it has issues and most likely it will, will end up useless.
Then you will either have to save up to get a 3-4k ebike on sale for maybe 1.7k , which is a great deal, or buy another clunker fom alibaba. There are many deals , esp. there in EU, you have many people getting ebikes.
So, just look up at a few stores for their on sale section for ebikes !

Hello Eeyore

 

[harryS]

Alibaba is set up to sell you 12 dozen e-bikes or whatever fits in container. It's for importers. You negotiate a price with shipping. One ebike? Not worth their time, and you'll get billed big time on the freight. There are probably a few guys in the UK that have taken that step and imported a container full of ebikes. Look for them.

Aliexpress is set up for purchase of one item. Everything there is no name, until someone with a recognized name applies a decal to it and it becomes a brand. On the other hand, almost every ebike you see has Shimano's low cost derailleurs and Textro brakes.

 

[Fr0d0]

I'd just like to say...

I have found bikee on dhgate selling for less than half, including shipment, taxes, duty than the importers are charging on Amazon and eBay.

Likewise I've found sellers on Alibaba that undercut all local prices after all essentials are costed in.

 

[Fr0d0]

Ok.. curve ball time

Looking at second user mid motor ebikes, what power do you think would suit? I'm I correct in assuming lower is possible with mid motors?

I'm 260ib, a few shortish steep hills say 12% if I don't stay too far. Annoyingly unavoidable last leg to home.

Thanks

 

[indianajo]

Watt ratings in the industry quote amps used times voltage delivered, which is fairly non-instructive. I had a "1300 W" geared hub motor, that would actually consume 30 amps the controller would deliver. Measuring ft lb per hour delivered (6 mph, 330 lb gross, 15" grade) I measured about 340 watts out of the tire on the ground. The rest comes out as heat. As stated before, If I ran that motor at that rating more than 10 or 15 minutes I would have burned the windings. Peak, average, rms power ratings are jiggled by vendors to lie a lot. Look at the appliance industry - power consumed is mostly all they will quote these days.
I'd say with 330 lb gross and 12% hills, you need 25 amps into a 48 v hub motor. You may not be able to buy that in Europe, the beaurocrats in EU are pretty intrusive & effective.

 

[Fr0d0]

Watt ratings in the industry quote amps used times voltage delivered, which is fairly non-instructive. I had a "1300 W" geared hub motor, that would actually consume 30 amps the controller would deliver. Measuring ft lb per hour delivered (6 mph, 330 lb gross, 15" grade) I measured about 340 watts out of the tire on the ground. The rest comes out as heat. As stated before, If I ran that motor at that rating more than 10 or 15 minutes I would have burned the windings. Peak, average, rms power ratings are jiggled by vendors to lie a lot. Look at the appliance industry - power consumed is mostly all they will quote these days.
I'd say with 330 lb gross and 12% hills, you need 25 amps into a 48 v hub motor. You may not be able to buy that in Europe, the beaurocrats in EU are pretty intrusive & effective.

Fantastic info thank you.

I don't understand the figures. I keep rereading them so maybe it'll sink in some time soon

I don't understand the concern of those beaurocrats. Make it law that you can't go at breakneck speeds but let us have enough torque to get up hills for heaven's sake.

 

[Fr0d0]

So...

A 48v 750W hub motor and a 48v 17.5Ah battery gives me what?

I'm looking at 20" Fat tyre.. will that help or not?

 

[indianajo]

Speaking of torque, my 330 lb gross weight (94 lb bike+tools, 170 lb me, 66 lb groceries) exerts 49 lb back on the tire on a 15% grade. The motor can overcome that to pull me up to 6 mph. The radius is 1.1' (26" tire) so ftlb torque is 54. Multiply by 1.35 to get newtonmeter, 73 nm. My geared hubmotor put out more than that torque (since it would accelerate from a stop on 15%). Fat tire cuts the radius so you need less torque to accelerate.