Anyone good at math?

[PCeBiker]

"Then our teacher relented and asked,..
"Is there any other mistakes?" "

Ummm, that should be "Are there any other mistakes?" But my mama was an English professor .

I'm sure that my teacher used proper English.
It was me that sucked at English.

(Or was It I that sucked at English?
Me, myself and I suck at English.)

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Jeremy, it is interesting that you see a lack of interest in STEM, whereas, coming from the social sciences and liberal arts, I bemoan the lack of interest and support for those fields as STEM is seen as the only way to a decent salary.

Governent support for education is an important side of this, to be sure. But I was talking about student interest and STEM literacy in the general population.

Not talking about higher math or rocket science here. A widespread grasp of beginner algebra would help. Algebra isn't just about numbers. It's also a useful way of thinking about the world in general. Ditto for basic science.

As you said before, math teaches logical thinking. Also careful evidence-based thinking. That involves tracking what you do and don't know through a problem and sticking with what you know. Science education does the same, but with more focus on what counts as evidence. And on how understanding should evolve as new evidence emerges.

These are very important skills in today's complex world. They need to be taught somewhere in a democracy. Otherwise we're left with a lot of gullible voters who might be swayed into voting their democracy away.

 

[PedalUma]

What size jar would you need to hold a Quadrillion jelly beans?

In a blackhole? Or at the speed of light?

I agree with @ChezCheese:). Reading novels everyday puts me in the minds of all types of other people. That has helped me to develop ''Theory of Mind'. It is something lacking and in demand in the Silicon Valley with interfaces and with product design. It helps me to create custom bikes for people who most likely do not talk bike speak. I also do art. I have been asked to be part of a twelve-week Artist's seminar that starts in two days. My dad was a research scientist and my mom an artist. I like the two together to achieve something beautiful, user friendly, and functional.

 

[PedalUma]

Currently there is a war on science. Who needs climate data when it conflicts with idology? The same with research institutions such as the Smithsonian and Harvard.

 

[Chargeride]

Plumbing isnt low paid, I earned more doing that than being in charge of installing and coding telephone exchanges.

When they say they need more plumbers, they mean low paid migrant plumbers

 

[Chargeride]

Being taught math or maths as we call it, isnt about learning anything particularly useful once you go past the basics.
No one is working out anything beyond ballpark in their head anymore.
Its about proving your ability to comprehend the application, to be able to hold all the pieces together in your 'ram', most of it is nothing but puzzles with learned rules.

You can literaly point your phone at really high end equations covering multiple variables, get the answer with a breakdown of each step.

Just writing this and posting it used more calculations than written by all the students this century.

Theres 14 billion transistors in an iphone chip, they are not being designed by people using math.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

You can literaly point your phone at really high end equations covering multiple variables, get the answer with a breakdown of each step.

If you're thinking about products like Photomath, your definition of "really high end" equations is different than mine. Very different.

Can't solve those with any phone app. Those equations date from 1865. Given that B (and I think J) are vector fields and the upside-down triangle thing is an operator on vector fields (curl and divergence) I am pretty sure most folks didn't cover them in math class.

Path integrals always made my head explode:

 

[Chargeride]

You can actually just upload an image into google.
Im a simple man, I think a physical representation of equations would encourage interest, one with turnable knobs and analog displays

You turn up this bit and the result changes, E is this, and watch X change its climb rate as you alter Z.
Maybe they do, or maybe thats too blue collar.

 

[Chargeride]

This guy just gets more resigned as the interview progresses.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

You can actually just upload an image into google.
Im a simple man, I think a physical representation of equations would encourage interest, one with turnable knobs and analog displays

You turn up this bit and the result changes, E is this, and watch X change its climb rate as you alter Z.
Maybe they do, or maybe thats too blue collar.

Can you give an example of the kind of physical (mechanical?) representation you have in mind? How would you reconfigure it to play what-ifs with more than one equation or model?

Graphing calculators and their online equivalents (e.g., desmos.com) offer a much more practical and flexible way to visualize and play with mathematical relationships. My now 30-something kids used TI-84s in middle and high school, and I bought myself a TI-89 to learn the ropes and have some math fun of my own.

These calculators have been in US secondary classrooms for almost 3 decades now and are still in widespread use today. Yet here we are, with a population full of innumerate and math-phobic kids and adults. And they're proud of it.

People with a lot more expertise and resources than you and I have been working on improving math education for decades. But you just can't teach someone who (a) doesn't want to learn, and (b) feels that they have every right to blow off your subject.

 

[PCeBiker]

Ummm, that should be "Are there any other mistakes?" But my mama was an English professor .

I had a girlfriend in Grade 10 who's parents were both professors at Waterloo university.
Mr. was a math professor, and Mrs. was a psychology professor (or sociology? I don’t remember? It's just that artsy fartsy stuff anyway. )


I had a math question in Gr. 12 that I showed to Mr. Math Professor.
I don't remember exactly what it was about, but it involved a Really complex calculation to find the answer.
I noted that there was a shortcut to the answer by using a computer to generate answers.
All I'd have to do was write a program to calculate answers one at a time, and then wait for a whole number answer to be generated (with no remainder after the decimal point).

Mr. Math said that that would take forever cuz the number of calculations is somewhere between zero and infinity.
So I challenged him to a race.
He was game, so the race Was On !!

I ran up to my girlfriends bedroom and wrote my program (C+ Fortran Basic Maple, I forget what language. (language is artsy fartsy stuff too. ))


I stared Intensely at the screen (Commodore 64 monochrome green screen) and waited for the first whole number to be generated.

The numbers were scrolling past almost too fast to see, but at least a whole number (if it's less than 10 or 12 digits long) that would scroll down without a remainder, would be shorter than all the others with a remainder.
(some generated answers were short, so I'd pause the program to see where the decimal point was.)

Then, after about 10 minutes (or what felt like 10?) There it was !!
A Whole Number output !!

I Ran downstairs with the answer and Mr. Math was not finished calculating old-school style.
It only took him about five more minutes to get an answer, and it turned out that my answer was right.

But I beat him.

But I don't see young people willing to do the needful, either because it is hard work and takes time to do the training (whiners), or because it is low pay (valid complaint).

A fellow student from Gr. 13 ended up at University taking mechanical engineering.

His first work term (after only 5 months of classes) involved test driving cars to see how they handle in the snow.

He was Being Paid to drive like an Ass to see how much gription is available in different winter conditions.

He was supposed to Wipeout.
That was part of the job.

I don't think anyone, even a girl, wouldn't want to get paid to do burnouts and fishtails on snow covered roads.


This is a rather nice looking donut that I drew myself,..

You have to do donuts in reverse with a front wheel drive vehicle.

The sucky part is that I was breaking the law drawing donuts in the snow-covered parking lot.

I'd much rather be paid to do 's

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Here's an interactive graphical model of the main cycling power losses made in the Desmos online graphing calculator:

power vs. speed

www.desmos.com

The graph
The graph plots ground speed Vg in m/s on the horizontal x-axis and mechanical power loss in W on the vertical y-axis. The orange curve is the aerodynamic power loss Pa. The red curve is the weight-dependent power loss Pw due to gravity and rolling resistance combined.

The blue curve is total power loss Pt = Pa + Pw. This is the mechanical power needed to hold speed Vg with the parameter sliders as you left them.

Sliders and other lines below the graph
Below the graph are text lines with symbol explanations and slider lines to play around with key parameters like bike mass Mb and system drag area Ad.

The default slider settings describe a best-case Tour de France scenario on smooth pavement in still air. Play with all of them. My own parameters are a good bit less favorable.

Other lines set constants or do the actual math and graphing. Diddle with the sliders all you want, but messing with anything else will likely break your local copy of the model.

Applies to ebikes, too
The model's power loss curves apply to all bicycles. On an unmotorized bike, a rider wishing to move at speed Vg with the sliders set as they are will need to supply all of the corresponding Pt and a few watts more to offset drivetrain losses. On an ebike, the rider and motor will have to share the load somehow.

But who will actually use it?
The finished power model's pretty easy to use, and you can explore practical questions with it.

For example, the intersection of the orange and red curves shows the "crossover speed" at which the aerodynamic loss equals all other losses combined. It may be lower than you think.

Now watch how crossover speed changes as you vary air resistance and bike mass. Where's your bike money best spent? Lowering drag area with more aero clothing can bring a lot of bang for the buck. And on an ebike, that goes to greater speed or battery range for effort.

But many will shy away from the model just because it speaks in symbols and graphs instead of words — even though all of that's been explained, and none of it's rocket science. That includes some folks actually interested in the subject matter.

 

[Chargeride]

Can you give an example of the kind of physical (mechanical?) representation you have in mind? How would you reconfigure it to play what-ifs with more than one equation or model?

Graphing calculators and their online equivalents (e.g., desmos.com) offer a much more practical and flexible way to visualize and play with mathematical relationships. My now 30-something kids used TI-84s in middle and high school, and I bought myself a TI-89 to learn the ropes and have some math fun of my own.

These calculators have been in US secondary classrooms for almost 3 decades now and are still in widespread use today. Yet here we are, with a population full of innumerate and math-phobic kids and adults. And they're proud of it.

People with a lot more expertise and resources than you and I have been working on improving math education for decades. But you just can't teach someone who (a) doesn't want to learn, and (b) feels that they have every right to blow off your subject.

Yeah, Im guessing something that visualises on each control knob and obviously a calculator of some sort running it.
Not a world away from an interactive display in a science museum.
It sounds dumbed down, but in reality it is that simple when you take away having to contextualise it in your head as well as doing the calculations.

All of my friends are pretty succesful in their careers, not one of them has the slightest clue beyond very basic algebra, most couldnt even do that.

Those trick tiktoks where they have different answers for three basic calculations, but leave the brackets out.
My friends thought I was Einstein when I explained the answer.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Yeah, Im guessing something that visualises on each control knob and obviously a calculator of some sort running it.
Not a world away from an interactive display in a science museum.
It sounds dumbed down, but in reality it is that simple when you take away having to contextualise it in your head as well as doing the calculations.

Love those mechanical displays! San Francisco's Exploratorium and San Diego's Fleet Science Center are full of them.

But totally impractical for educating millions of kids day to day.

All of my friends are pretty succesful in their careers, not one of them has the slightest clue beyond very basic algebra, most couldnt even do that.

Math and science are useful and wondrous lenses on the world. They're also a useful style of careful thinking that you can apply even if your daily life is relatively math-free. You get a lot of the benefit with just basic algebra concepts.

 

[PCeBiker]

Love those mechanical displays!

I do still love my mechanical voltmeter.
It shows voltage sag and surge and remaining ️ in one quick glance.

I remember telling you about the analog inclinometer that I came across,..

Both instruments are Way More user friendly and Way More tangible to read and perceive.


Would you rather look at a digital stream of digits ??

Is it better to have every tidbit of data saved stored and explored forever?

A moving bubble or needle just seems way more natural to me.

I can't understand why people don't want it?
They'd rather stare at a stream of numerical digits.

 

[PCeBiker]

You get a lot of the benefit with just basic algebra concepts.

I like calculus.
The study of limits.

So what is the limit of a fat tire?

We're barely at 5" now.
Why not 6 or 7 inches or two feet wide for that matter??
Rolling around all sled style like a two-wheeled snowmobile with Big Fat Tracks??

And what about the other limit of a tire with a contact patch so narrow that it can't be measured?

What are the implications on handling, human comfort, and ergonomics at both extremes.

And why are throttles full blast or nothing at all?

Where's the humanity in that??

How fast is fast enough??

I'm okay with my 20 mph speed limit, as long as I don't have to spend the rest of my life in jail because I got caught doin nuthin wrong ??

 

[Chargeride]

They do make six inch fat tyres, diminishing returns I would say.

Surly Moonlander

6.2 inch to be exact, though I suspect thats marketing

 

[Chargeride]

Im one of tbose people who despise math simply because my brain is very weak at dealing with it.
I actually have mental discomfort working out 88 X 17.5.
The process is tedious to me.

So Ive spent a lifetime avoiding it or seizing opportunities to vastly simplify it.
Sat in math class staring out the window I would dream of ways to undermine its importance.
I though the scientific calculator would be the end of it being taught.

I came up with the notion that the Universe should just be one, only to find out that musings are the norm in certain parts of the field, but I found that to be vastly more interesting.
Why do we chop up reality so we can measure it, do animals understand math..obviously they do.

Then I discovered the endless debate if math is intrinsic, or just a product of consciousness, you end up in reddit philosophy reading about mathematical fictionalism.
Plato himself put his oar in, but of course hes rather over rated because hes ancient and mysterious.

Math or Maths as we refer to it is incredibly 'easy' for computers, considering that it might be the key to a door beyond the restraints of matter is a human desire.
I just wish they wouldnt present it as a whiteboard of endless squiggles in a 'you'll never understand' optic.

Yes we can , tell us what you are using to dream.

In the video I posted he considers thats these endless decade long 'thought puzzles' of math could be condensed into weeks by AI and be merged in a way that would never happen in the restraints of human academia.
Hopefully it doesnt have ego, snobbery, elitism, disdain or ridicule.
Maybe it will just pick them up.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Arithmetics is a very small subset of mathematics.

 

[Chargeride]

No its all one if you go far enough away.