sandyman44
New Member
- Region
- United Kingdom
of course, being teenage or 20 something makes coping with a rigid bike easier. being 50 something as we both are, means suspension is a good thing to have , to cope with whichever body joints are worn out
Vado SL 4.0 with a suspension fork?
- Thread starter sandyman44
- Start date
Rás Cnoic
Hillrider a.k.a. The Apostle
- Region
- United Kingdom
- City
- Dartmoor
Speak for yourself, these days I climb mountain paths on my fixie with 19mm tyres and a 52 - 9 gearof course, being teenage or 20 something makes coping with a rigid bike easier. being 50 something as we both are, means suspension is a good thing to have , to cope with whichever body joints are worn out
Rás Cnoic
Hillrider a.k.a. The Apostle
- Region
- United Kingdom
- City
- Dartmoor
Sandyman, if you get to love the front sus and want a wee bit more power(!), the Girona based Megamo bikes have just released 2 models with the Avinox (M2S) motor - and one is a gravel bike with front suspension. Not crazy money either, starting at €3,699 for a flat bar version, €3,999 drops, but €7,999 with the front sus.
Its a crazy amount of power for gravel. But they also have a road bike with the avinox motor too!
www.megamo.com
Its a crazy amount of power for gravel. But they also have a road bike with the avinox motor too!
ALONG 01 (27) - Megamo Bicycles
www.megamo.com
sandyman44
New Member
- Region
- United Kingdom
<philosophy>
I actually don't like what Avinox are doing. I'd rather the tech went in the direction of purely lighter for the same power. I know its very light for the full (or more than full) power end of the market, but its not lighter than the SL's., If they (avinox) put their tech effort into an SL, maybe they could make a more-efficient-and-lighter-than-the-other-SL's. 300-400W, 1kg, ~50nm, something like that I'd buy. But, if someone wants to buy what they current sell... its a free market...go ahead.
</philosophy>
If I had to buy an emtb today, I'd be probably be looking at a scott lumen (TQ60), claimed 17kg ish. My 5 yo EMTB is a decent ride, but I really notice the weight sometimes. And I almost never use its full power (which is "only" a CX4). I often ride with non-assisted mtb people (my sons) - so I need lowest possible gearing (I dropped the chainring down 4 or 6T from stock) so as to be able to slow down to their pace on uphill grinds. there is no point me zooming to the top. And if we hit a crazy technical steep uphill unrideable (by us anyway... we do not have pro technique) rock garden ... they hike a bike with their 14kg carbon frames. I swear and sweat trying push my 29kg tank. (walk mode doesn't help in this situation)
I actually don't like what Avinox are doing. I'd rather the tech went in the direction of purely lighter for the same power. I know its very light for the full (or more than full) power end of the market, but its not lighter than the SL's., If they (avinox) put their tech effort into an SL, maybe they could make a more-efficient-and-lighter-than-the-other-SL's. 300-400W, 1kg, ~50nm, something like that I'd buy. But, if someone wants to buy what they current sell... its a free market...go ahead.
</philosophy>
If I had to buy an emtb today, I'd be probably be looking at a scott lumen (TQ60), claimed 17kg ish. My 5 yo EMTB is a decent ride, but I really notice the weight sometimes. And I almost never use its full power (which is "only" a CX4). I often ride with non-assisted mtb people (my sons) - so I need lowest possible gearing (I dropped the chainring down 4 or 6T from stock) so as to be able to slow down to their pace on uphill grinds. there is no point me zooming to the top. And if we hit a crazy technical steep uphill unrideable (by us anyway... we do not have pro technique) rock garden ... they hike a bike with their 14kg carbon frames. I swear and sweat trying push my 29kg tank. (walk mode doesn't help in this situation)
Rás Cnoic
Hillrider a.k.a. The Apostle
- Region
- United Kingdom
- City
- Dartmoor
Yes I was writing that post about avinox slightly shaking my head because I can't see why you'd need that much power on a gravel bike, let alone a road bike! For a full fat MTB I can see the advantage, not just power but low weight in comparison and a very competitive price. The Amflows seem good bikes.
For me and my riding now, mostly Devon/Dartmoor lanes and bridleways, the biggest development is that TQ40 motor and in particular Canyon's Endurace, the Sub 10 (kg) tier. Sub 10Kg with similar power to my Vado SL is just extraordinary. I'm disappointed that the industry has kind of ignored it, while brands are clambering to get a model out with the Avinox. I guess what the public want is more power. For me the lightness of the system, the more lightweight the ride feel the better. Plus the more I can ride unassisted, without much bike weight to overcome, the longer range I'll have etc etc.
Stefan Mikes
Gravel e-biker
- Region
- Europe
- City
- Mazovia, PL
I'm so glad my Vado SL 1 has served me so well on numerous e-gravel races! Lowly inflated tyres, Redshift and...
(This photo was taken on the top of the climb). This Saturday, I'm riding my 7th e-bike race I'm absolutely against the current trend, that is, overpowered e-bikes.
stompandgo
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
I have no problem with the trend, but I'm with you regarding the joy of riding a limited power e-bike.
Allan47.7339
Well-Known Member
Next time you have it apart, take a photo of the bottom of the head tube and bearing seat. It will help people who have not taken their bikes apart see what it looks like. Some people think the bearings are still pressed in.
This is pretty interesting. I'm not as impressed with future shock on my Vado SL 5.0. For my next bike I'd really like a small front shock like the Rockshox Rudy 40mm.
I think the only current bike like this is the Santa Cruz Skitch.
Found this thread because I thought about replacing my fork with a Rudy. Wasnt sure if it's possible.
I think the only current bike like this is the Santa Cruz Skitch.
Found this thread because I thought about replacing my fork with a Rudy. Wasnt sure if it's possible.
stompandgo
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
The Skitch GX bikes come with the Rudy suspension fork. I know I've seen some commuter bikes with them, but I can't remember which ones.
Yeah. I mentioned it. Just wondering how hard it would be to add onto a Vado SL
stompandgo
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
Only the GX comes with a suspension fork.
sandyman44
New Member
- Region
- United Kingdom
thought you might be interested, Vado build is almost finished, no tape or grips yet. I'm calling it a Dratflop Bar GravArdtail.
mrp baxter 60mm travel fork
flat mtb handlebar will have MTB grips. currently at 780mm may shorten 10 or 20mm.
110mm stem
RFR Trekking bar ends mounted inboard (200mm either side of stem), will have drop bar tape. hose lines will be partially taped under.
MT501 main levers for mtb hand position for control on technical / fast descents.
GRX812 sub levers on end of ski jump bars for "out front / on the hoods" hand position. Height and reach in this position is pretty much identical to the hoods on my drop bar bike (on purpose!)
GRX820 calipers, hoses changed to BH90.
180mm front rotor, 160mm rear rotor
GX Eagle AXS shifting. 10-52 gabaruk cassette, 38T race face ring.
DT swiss GR531 rims +DT350 hubs 650b wheels
Teravail rutland 47mm tyres (might go bigger when they wear out, I already had them)
meroca 100mm dropper (decided to go lever under the seat - gravel riding doesn't need frequent height changes like MTB does)
Tailfin frame bag
stock saddle from the vado
Planning to do some 60-70 mile scottish gravel sessions on it in a month, the new Gallovidian 3 part route,
mrp baxter 60mm travel fork
flat mtb handlebar will have MTB grips. currently at 780mm may shorten 10 or 20mm.
110mm stem
RFR Trekking bar ends mounted inboard (200mm either side of stem), will have drop bar tape. hose lines will be partially taped under.
MT501 main levers for mtb hand position for control on technical / fast descents.
GRX812 sub levers on end of ski jump bars for "out front / on the hoods" hand position. Height and reach in this position is pretty much identical to the hoods on my drop bar bike (on purpose!)
GRX820 calipers, hoses changed to BH90.
180mm front rotor, 160mm rear rotor
GX Eagle AXS shifting. 10-52 gabaruk cassette, 38T race face ring.
DT swiss GR531 rims +DT350 hubs 650b wheels
Teravail rutland 47mm tyres (might go bigger when they wear out, I already had them)
meroca 100mm dropper (decided to go lever under the seat - gravel riding doesn't need frequent height changes like MTB does)
Tailfin frame bag
stock saddle from the vado
Planning to do some 60-70 mile scottish gravel sessions on it in a month, the new Gallovidian 3 part route,
sandyman44
New Member
- Region
- United Kingdom
sorry I missed this request. But the inside of the head tube is basically a big hollow tube. and there are two chamfered sections to the tube, Top and bottom, that are an exact match for the (completely removable , sealed) bearings. Its an MH-P16 bearing at the bottom and an MH-P08 at the top.
I suspect that even those with the futureshock are the same frame-wise. At some point I'll check this out on my creo (which has a futureshock).
when I changed the vado from the stock rigid fork (1 1/8 straight head tube) to the new tapered head tube suspension fork, I needed a new crown race https://www.airevelobearings.com/product/1-5-1-1-2-crown-race/ to match the fork into the lower bearing. That was then a perfect fit no play, EXCEPT that this allowed the fork to go slightly too far into the head tube. top of fork just touching bottom of head tube. Couldn't quite figure out why. but anyway, trip to LBS, couple of very thin (0.5mm x2 I think he used) shims under the crown race to lift it, sorted.
btw, whilst there had a philosophy discussion about avinox bikes and the power e-bike trend. he said he is looking forward to the amount of chain/cassette servicing work he'll have to do because the torque will shred them. 150nm is more than a small car and they don't have bicycle gear trains.
sandyman44
New Member
- Region
- United Kingdom
it should be. mine didn't have futureshock (bought the 4.0 without on purpose) but I would expect there's a way to de-futureshock it when you take it to bits.
then it'll be the same as what I did.
I didn't go with the rudy 40mm as that fork spec said that 650b wheels were not recommended due to where the fork narrows being at the exact point of where a 650b tyre sits. Same went for the fox 40mm. so I went with the mrp baxter , which I had to buy from the US. and I decided to go 60mm as well. if you only wanna run 700c / 40mm travel then the rudy or fox would do the job.
the other thing about the baxter is it comes in 12x110 , so can run exact same wheelset. the others are mostly 12x100 or 15x110 so you end up having to change something else.
stompandgo
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
It's not just the M2S, all of the >100Nm drive units are going to kill mechanical drivetrains, especially on E-MTB's which experience very high torque peaks as obstacles are ridden over. Fortunately, chains and cassettes are high margin components.
Chazmo
fat-tire biker
- Region
- USA
- City
- Central Massachusetts
Sandy, I think you need to check your math here… If I’m not mistaken, we’re talking about 2 horsepower or so…
Certainly, more power from a mid-drive means more stress on the drivetrain. But I don’t think we’re in the same ballpark here as auto or even motorcycle territory.
Stefan Mikes
Gravel e-biker
- Region
- Europe
- City
- Mazovia, PL
You are right, Charlie. Torque figure alone is of no meaning. You also need to know the rpm.
sandyman44
New Member
- Region
- United Kingdom
wasn't my math_s ... (I'm british ;-) ) ... lbs guy... we were just chewing the fat whilst he rummaged in his boxes of parts
even if the maths isn't exact - stands to reason they will get through more than a 40nm SL.
