The transition

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Cmon Ras, thats a generic put down reply with zero content.

Would you rather I replaced it with a researched bullet point presentation of the leading advocates and enablers of the EV transition so as not to leave a gap for you to throw in a spitball.
 
Rás Cnoic said:
😂 😂

Who are 'They' Charge? Are they in the room with you now?
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"they" are anyone trying to make money doing anything, because they're all out to get him!

"they" also aren't trying to make anyone's lives easier by trashing the global environment with fossil fuel extraction and combustion, lol. people talk about the challenges in electrification as if there were no challenges or work to create the current infrastructure. the oil doesn't exactly climb out of the ground and into your car or truck or jet aircraft! the complexity and scope of the global infrastructure is mind boggling, walk around one of these things. the scope, scale, complexity, depth, breadth, ingenuity, everything that goes went into and is still going into the current fossil fuel infrastructure is truly amazing. it's just unfortunate that it was constructed without an understanding of the impact on the global climate.

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Chargeride said:
Do you disagree that..insert ev transition enablers..are not in it to save you money?
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i don’t really care what goal you assign to anyone, whether they sell milk, computers, or oil. i (and most adults) can do the math and determine if it does save me money, and do my best to assess whether it has other benefits like convenience, fun, social or environmental benefit, etc.

businesses generally exist to make money. even the ones that don’t usually pay their employees well enough, all they’re really eliminating is the motive for profits beyond a certain point, which means little or nothing to me, since as i said, i can do the math myself on what something costs.
 
Chargeride said:
Do you disagree that..insert ev transition enablers..are not in it to save you money?
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Kind of an odd framing. "EV transition enablers" probably encompasses a huge swath of people, industries and government policies (I say probably because I'm not totally sure what you mean by that). Here in the US, the vast majority of our power generation is done by private for profit companies with some minimal level of government oversight since they functionally operate as monopolies in most markets. Transportation (cars, bikes etc) are almost entirely private for profit companies. So their goal isn't to save anyone money, they are for profit companies. The money saving comes from the fact that they operate in the free market, and (at grid scale) the cost for renewables keeps plummeting, and the tech for EV transportation keeps improving at the same time as their costs keep going down.
 
They will tax EVs and their energy pipeline to take the exact same amount out of your pocket unless you make it yourself, even then dont give them ideas.
In 2028 the pay per mile starts for EVs

Starting April 2028, the UK government will introduce a new pay-per-mile road tax—known as Electric Vehicle Excise Duty (eVED)—for electric vehicles (EVs) and plug-in hybrids (PHEVs). This charge will sit on top of the standard Vehicle Excise Duty (VED) that EVs already pay.
Key details of the pay-per-mile scheme include:
The Rates: Fully electric cars will be charged 3p per mile, while plug-in hybrids will pay 1.5p per mile. These rates are set to increase annually with inflation.
How It Works: Drivers will pay based on their mileage, which will be verified annually. For cars over three years old, this will be checked during the annual MOT.

That will be 10p by the time it starts if EV sales keep going up.
 
Chargeride said:
Do you disagree that..insert ev transition enablers..are not in it to save you money?
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No, they are in it to make money, because we are all cheerful and honest capitalists. But they are trying to make money through the most viciously unfair trade practice of all: selling a superior product at a lower price.

Yes, EVs are currently somewhat more expensive to purchase than comparable ICE vehicles. But if you consider the lower operating costs and maintenance costs you are making money after three or four years. And since EVs have fewer moving parts, fewer parts overall, and their manufacture is much more amenable to automation the long-term trend will be for them to get even less expensive as economies of scale kick in. There are already numerous Chinese-made EVs that cost under US $10000 and a few that cost less than $5000.

At this point it is reasonable to assume that the inevitable widespread adoption of electric vehicles will be an extinction-level event for legacy automakers. And they know it too and that's why there is so much FUD being spread and why car dealerships so vehemently hate selling you an electric vehicle.

The fact is that legacy automakers physically cannot make a competitor to the Geely EX2. And the dinosaur killer that takes them out will look a lot like that car.

It doesn't take a genius to know which way the wind is blowing here.

I have a Subaru EV which is a frumpy lesbian mom car that goes from zero to 100km/h in under five seconds. At-dealer service costs about 30 bucks (rotate the tires, check the torque on suspension bolts, check levels) and takes about half an hour. I could do that service at home or go to Les Schwab down the road and do it all for $20. Yes, it looks like a black jelly bean or a bar of licorice soap but it still can whip most any ICE car that costs less than $250k in a quarter mile.
 
Mr. Coffee said:
I have a Subaru EV which is a frumpy lesbian mom car
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At least you admit it. 🤣

EV adoption would be nowhere near where it is now if it were not for government subsidies. These subsidies are paid for by every taxpayer, whether you want an EV or not. That is anything but a free market. The same goes for solar residential. It's paid for by ratepayers who have to deal with a monopoly on the transmission side, that has chosen to bill every rate payer for your neighbor's solar. That is anything but a free market. Once the next progressive administration is installed, they are going to tax the living snot out of everything fossil fuel related, and reinstate massive subsidies for renewables, including taking land and water for their projects with total disregard for the concerns of the people that live, work, and own property near them. That is anything but a free market.
 
stompandgo said:
At least you admit it. 🤣

EV adoption would be nowhere near where it is now if it were not for government subsidies. These subsidies are paid for by every taxpayer, whether you want an EV or not. That is anything but a free market. The same goes for solar residential. It's paid for by ratepayers who have to deal with a monopoly on the transmission side, that has chosen to bill every rate payer for your neighbor's solar. That is anything but a free market. Once the next progressive administration is installed, they are going to tax the living snot out of everything fossil fuel related, and reinstate massive subsidies for renewables, including taking land and water for their projects with total disregard for the concerns of the people that live, work, and own property near them. That is anything but a free market.
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Yes, I freely admit EV production is subsidized. But still...

How many times in the last forty years have we bailed out legacy automakers to the tune of billions of dollars?

How many trillions of dollars in military expenditures and soft power have we spent ensuring that the petroleum keeps flowing?

Do you seriously think that the oil industry is not subsidized?

I'd bet real money if you counted all those subsidies on each side of the ledger the dinosaur burners got a lot more, probably much more than ten times as much.

The $7,500 EV tax credit is gone, but each gas car still gets $20k+ in subsidies

Fossil fuels benefit from $760 billion in direct and indirect subsidies in the US per year. How is that a "free market"?
electrek.co electrek.co
 
Mr. Coffee said:
Yes, I freely admit EV production is subsidized. But still...

How many times in the last forty years have we bailed out legacy automakers to the tune of billions of dollars?

How many trillions of dollars in military expenditures and soft power have we spent ensuring that the petroleum keeps flowing?

Do you seriously think that the oil industry is not subsidized?

I'd bet real money if you counted all those subsidies on each side of the ledger the dinosaur burners got a lot more, probably much more than ten times as much.

The $7,500 EV tax credit is gone, but each gas car still gets $20k+ in subsidies

Fossil fuels benefit from $760 billion in direct and indirect subsidies in the US per year. How is that a "free market"?
electrek.co electrek.co
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And what about the health costs? I lived in LA in the late 1970's when you could not see a hill a mile away because of the brown smog.
 
Yup, my town is going very continental with outside seating everywhere, including next to busy narrow roads.

It would be much nicer if every car was at least a hybrid.
 
So the new mileage excise for EVs and PHEVs. Just did a google calculation. A 200 mile drive will cost £6. A PHEV will cost £3. My 10 year old diesel CRV currently costs me £11.35 plus VAT of £3.53 so a total of £14.88 at the pump.

They are adding this because as the percentage of cars go electric, the road taxes incomes will start diminishing massively. They shortfall for public services like the NHS and schools and roads etc need topping up obviously.

I have no problem with that. Just had my annual diabetic check up this morning, no waiting, cheerful & funny nurse taking bloods etc, very professional, excellent service, no bills.
 
Mr. Coffee said:
When the real savings is zipping silently past them on the highway
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I find it adorable when people write things like this. Perhaps they should think before blindly copy/paste from whichever talking point website they use.

Curious, where do you live that has capacitive highway charging so an EV doesn't need to stop to charge? Less than 10% of the miles we drive would be satisfied by home charging.
 
Rás Cnoic said:
So the new mileage excise for EVs and PHEVs. Just did a google calculation. A 200 mile drive will cost £6. A PHEV will cost £3. My 10 year old diesel CRV currently costs me £11.35 plus VAT of £3.53 so a total of £14.88 at the pump.

They are adding this because as the percentage of cars go electric, the road taxes incomes will start diminishing massively. They shortfall for public services like the NHS and schools and roads etc need topping up obviously.

I have no problem with that. Just had my annual diabetic check up this morning, no waiting, cheerful & funny nurse taking bloods etc, very professional, excellent service, no bills.
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In the US we have SUVs and trucks everywhere. Usually there is only the driver. These Abrams tanks just kill the roads. Their hoods are often over 5 feet tall. EVs are heavy also. I think we need a new way of funding road maintenance other than a petrol tax. It would include factors such as size and weight and distance driven. Leaving the question of how often it would be paid and how. People drive these to buy a six-pack five blocks away and for their daily commute or to take kids half a kilometer to school. It makes them feel safe because it is such an arms race menace to everyone else, including cyclists. Most have never been offroad.

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