Two Month Review Of Cervelo Rouvida Rival Road Ebike

[rdv]

View attachment 204419
Sudovia, or the most northeastern area of Poland consists of steep hills only. I do race there. Varmia and Mazuria are hilly, too. A 50 mile Sudovia ride requires over 1400 m elevation gain.

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Poland is a way greater than just the central Mazovia (or "Flatpoland"). Our southern neighbours are montane countries.

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The Poland's South is all mountains, some of them high ones (Tatra, Sudety, Bieszczady). Just to mention the highest peak of Bieszczady, Tarnica, which is higher than Ben Nevis I once climbed for 1727 m elevation gain on a 60 km outward leg of the trip.

I showed that the assist of Mahle x20 ends at 100% rider's power (1x). I need the 1x assist as ECO but SPORT and TURBO require more. My Vado SL with the mountain gearing is capable to handle relatively short 10% inclines. My Vado 6.0 has the assist up to 320% and it provides the peak power of 520 W. I need that e-bike for serious climbs, and had several impressive of them on my holidays.

Enjoyed the views of Poland.

 

[EMGX]

Depending on how much you want to ride your Vaya but could do with some help, you might consider a Keyde S110 hub motor. Weight 2.3kg plus a 1.2kg 36v 7ah battery is same as published wt of Mahle x35 system comes in thru axle and threaded axle versions. As easy to install as changing a rear wheel. wireless controls or just use your cell phone and app. Only one wire to battery. I've ridden mine on routes with several miles of near continuous climbs with up to over 12% gradients. Given the right expectations I think it is a great system.

 

[Rás Cnoic]

Depending on how much you want to ride your Vaya but could do with some help, you might consider a Keyde S110 hub motor. Weight 2.3kg plus a 1.2kg 36v 7ah battery is same as published wt of Mahle x35 system comes in thru axle and threaded axle versions. As easy to install as changing a rear wheel. wireless controls or just use your cell phone and app. Only one wire to battery. I've ridden mine on routes with several miles of near continuous climbs with up to over 12% gradients. Given the right expectations I think it is a great system.

Thanks but no thanks, I've seen that motor and looks good, but I love the Vaya for the smooth and springy steel ride & it's such a lovely bike I want to keep it pure I suppose. Plus it's a target to get fitter with my ebike so I can ride it more! I have looked at kit motors for another analogue bike, a beloved old 26er MTB, was curious about mid drives like Bafang etc but the awkward heavy battery attached in the bottle cage mounts and the uncertainty of my DIY skills means I never got around to it. Might look again and see what new options are out there this coming summer. Seems like every 6 months there is some new development.

 

[mschwett]

Horses for courses Stefan. Where you live and mostly ride is flat as a pancake. So what if occasionally you go to somewhere with hills? You have more than 1 bike. I have a beautiful Salsa Vaya without a motor, so I either have to be super fit to ride on the steep hills here or I put in the car and ride elsewhere. You have to do the same to go find hills. Go try a Mahle hub motor bike, do a report and see how it feels on your local roads. On the flat there should be no difference between the hub motor and the SL, especially with the 25km cut off. The X20 had a firmware update 3 months ago to give 18% more power. Bet it's a blinder on the flat or small hills now. See if you can get a test ride on any of these cool road bikes; 3T, Argon, Bergamot, Bianchi, BMC, Cannondale, Mondraker, Orbea, GT, Lapierre, Lemond, Merida, Pashley, Raleigh, Ribble, Ridley, Rose, Salsa, Scott, Van Rysel, Wilier or one of the many smaller brands out there that use the X20 or X35.

the x20 bikes can climb most paved hills pretty well for most people who want a road bike. of course you’re not going to go fast, that’s not the point of a lightweight e-bike. it’s really pretty rare to find paved roads with sustained grades over 10% - of course they exist, but it’s rare. i happen to live at the top of one, and the x20 even without the update is OK to go up most (but not all!) of them, albeit slowly! I certainly wouldn‘t put a super light hub drive like that in a mountain bike, cargo bike, all weather commuter, SUV style bike etc. the fact that the bottom bracket and rear driver are dead standard means you can put pretty much any gearing that exists for road doubles on most of these bikes, which is an advantage over mid drives for road.

i am curious to see if the update has any effect on efficiency, or just peak torque and thus power. I don’t think it’s available to download yet, even though they said Q4 ‘25.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

it’s really pretty rare to find paved roads with sustained grades over 10% - of course they exist, but it’s rare.

This sentence is only correct when the qualifier "in the United States" has been added. Europe is full of steep paved roads.

Ironically, even our Flatpoland (central Mazovia) has a 10+% hill called Góra Kalwaria (Mt. Calvary). You can approach it on bike through one incline on asphalt, and the other on raw cobblestones. Move away from Central Poland and you are finding more and more very steep hills.

 

[Blackvipergts]

This sentence is only correct when the qualifier "in the United States" has been added. Europe is full of steep paved roads.

Ironically, even our Flatpoland (central Mazovia) has a 10+% hill called Góra Kalwaria (Mt. Calvary). You can approach it on bike through one incline on asphalt, and the other on raw cobblestones. Move away from Central Poland and you are finding more and more very steep hills.

I can also confirm and ,only as example, the <via Tremula> in Switzerland to climb the Gottardo Pass at over 2000 mt is 13km long and % gradient up to 13%

 

[Stefan Mikes]

For example, some climbs and descents in Poland (and neighouring countries):

Specialized Tarmac Climb, Świeradów-Zdrój, Poland. (Jizera Mountains)

Try riding it uphill. The Harrachov - Jakuszyce segment across the Czech/Polish border. We were lucky to descend there. (Jizera Mountains)

Bieszczady Mts.

Climbing from Slovakia onto the Polish border. (Beskidy Mts)

Assorted climbs in Sudety Mountains.

Sudovia (Poland), the area in the notorious Suwałki Gap (Poland/Lithuania/Russia/Belarus), consisting of steep post-glacial hills only. (So called Sudovia Mts).

I rode a 520 W/85 Nm Vado with mountain gearing on all those and many more rides. The photo shows me climbing up a 14% grade hill in Sudovia. I rode only 10 km/h but see how much I gained when overtaking all the traditional riders as seen in the picture! Well, x20? A joke?

 

[Rás Cnoic]

For example, some climbs and descents in Poland (and neighouring countries):

View attachment 204462
Specialized Tarmac Climb, Świeradów-Zdrój, Poland. (Jizera Mountains)

View attachment 204463
Try riding it uphill. The Harrachov - Jakuszyce segment across the Czech/Polish border. We were lucky to descend there. (Jizera Mountains)

View attachment 204464
Bieszczady Mts.

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Climbing from Slovakia onto the Polish border. (Beskidy Mts)

View attachment 204468
Assorted climbs in Sudety Mountains.

View attachment 204467
Sudovia (Poland), the area in the notorious Suwałki Gap (Poland/Lithuania/Russia/Belarus), consisting of steep post-glacial hills only. (So called Sudovia Mts).

View attachment 204469
I rode a 520 W/85 Nm Vado with mountain gearing on all those and many more rides. The photo shows me climbing up a 14% grade hill in Sudovia. I rode only 10 km/h but see how much I gained when overtaking all the traditional riders as seen in the picture! Well, x20? A joke?

None of which would prevent you from owning and enjoying an x20 or x35 equipped bike on 99% of the roads you can ride on from your front door.

Which is my point. You already have bikes for your occasional forays into the exciting world of Polish gravel racing. Nothing to stop you trying a practical, well regarded and lightweight system on the roads you use most. I remember a couple of years ago you even tested an analogue bike, a Spesh gravel bike? A Mahle hub motor would suit you much better, giving similar levels of assistance to the Vado SL on the flat or as mschwett suggests, up hills with a gradient to 10%, the majority of your rides.

But I'm going to shut up as we always get to this point! It's your business. You ride far more on your steeds than I do and you get enormous satisfaction out of them and clearly love riding. I suppose I just wish you'd take the blinkers off about other brands/systems you haven't tried yet and just give it a go, for a laugh if nothing else.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

None of which would prevent you from owning and enjoying an x20 or x35 equipped bike on 99% of the roads you can ride on from your front door.

Nothing to stop you trying a practical, well regarded and lightweight system on the roads you use most.

Why anyone would need an x20 or x35 if one owns a Vado SL? Vado SL can climb 10-11% grade inclines, also on raw cobblestones. I do two hilly gravel races on Vado SL, only leaving the big Vado for Sudovia.
In other words: in what sense would a Mahle x motor e-bike be better, compared?
Why are gravel e-bikes mid-drives, such as Orbea Denna?

 

[stompandgo]

the x20 bikes can climb most paved hills pretty well for most people who want a road bike. of course you’re not going to go fast, that’s not the point of a lightweight e-bike. it’s really pretty rare to find paved roads with sustained grades over 10% - of course they exist, but it’s rare. i happen to live at the top of one, and the x20 even without the update is OK to go up most (but not all!) of them, albeit slowly! I certainly wouldn‘t put a super light hub drive like that in a mountain bike, cargo bike, all weather commuter, SUV style bike etc. the fact that the bottom bracket and rear driver are dead standard means you can put pretty much any gearing that exists for road doubles on most of these bikes, which is an advantage over mid drives for road.

i am curious to see if the update has any effect on efficiency, or just peak torque and thus power. I don’t think it’s available to download yet, even though they said Q4 ‘25.

I'm on board with everything you are saying here about the Mahle x20, low torque hub (or mid-drive) motors, elevation and speed. What I'm questioning is the highlighted statement. Define "sustained" for me. Is it by time or distance? What are your metrics? I may agree with you, or I may not, depending on your definition.

The US interstate highway system was designed with a targeted <6% average grade change over long distances to support the military. Nobody with any common sense rides their e-bike on the interstate, even if it was legal to do so. State, county, and local roads do not have to conform to these standards, and that is where you will find what I would consider "sustained" climbs. As an analog bike rider, I've always defined "sustained" in terms of time, because time suffering relates to me better than distance.

In the Northeast, we have quite a number of "sustained" climbs. They are usually associated near to, or as part of, a mountain pass. We race over them. That said, 10% is a really big number, which prompted my question.

 

[Blackvipergts]

Personally I define <sustained climb> something which keep me busy/ engaged both in distance as well as in elevation gain: for example this summer I rode :
the Bernina Pass in Switzerland which is 32km long, 2.000 mt elevation gain for an average gradient of 6,5% and max 13%.
Colle dell'Agnello [ Italy-French border] which is 26km long, 1959 mt elevation gain for an average gradient of 7,5% and max 13%
Col du Nivolet [ Italy] which is 42km long, 2250 mt elevation gain for an average gradient of 7% and max 15%
The time spent riding is dependent from several items and not necessarily is linked to the difficult [ eg: stop for pictures,stop for watching the sorrou dind...]
With my FazuaRide60 in Eco mode [ Breeze mode for Fazua] ,battery from 430wh, set 110w motor/100w rider I end up all those climbs with still 35% battery available.
Finally an overall comment about Fazua: since 2024 Fazua is fully owned by Porsche AG and most probably in the short future shall disappear as a brand to be fully incorporated and traded as Porsche bike...

 

[Rás Cnoic]

The UK and Ireland as Islands don't have alpine style 20 mile climbs but instead an abundance of short viciously steep hills. I'm on the edge of Dartmoor, the highest point is High Willhays, at just 621 meters (2,039 ft) so not high at all. Highest mountain in Ireland is Carrauntoohil at 1,038 meters (3,407 feet) and in England it's Scafell Pike at 978 meters (3,209 feet) you get the idea. But Dartmoor for example is full of steep sided little valleys so I have a choice of around 6 roads to leave town and 4 of these have immediate climbs of gradients of 17 to 22% and if I wanted I could make a short 20 mile loop and hit 5 or 6, 20+% climbs. But then there are only a few long slow drags of over 5 miles/kms in the area. It's all up and down, up and down. The East of England, Anglia, the part opposite Holland, is very flat. And of course Scotland and Wales are full of impressive mountains.

Maybe someday we'll get to the point that when we buy a new bike we get to pick the type of gearing that suits our locale.

 

[rdv]

Wondering if this thread might awaken.

I've started contemplating a switch from a TQ HPRR50 to the Fazua Ride 60. It's my particular age (upper70s) and health (angina) that are not allowing me to draw the TQs full potential. I can't contribute more than 100W for more than a few seconds, or the angina will shut me down entirely. That becomes an issue with the TQ due to its 200% maximum support, which means I only draw a sustainable 200W from the motor, missing out on the 300W stronger riders can take advantage of. (I've pleaded with TQ to allow a 300% maximum assist, without increasing its 300W output, to no avail).

An associated issue is that I generally pedal at relatively low cadences of 50-70 rpm, mostly around 60, which is not best suited to the TQ.

The Fazua Ride 60 seems to overcome these constraints if I understand its operating parameters correctly. I'd appreciate feedback from users of the Ride 60 on whether a setup such as I might start out with is tenable at 60 rpm.
Breeze: 100W input, 100 or 125W maximum support
River: 100W input, 200 or 250W maximum support
Rocket: 100W input, 350W maximum support, possible short boost to 450W

Dreaming?
Thanks, Rob

I contacted Fazua directly for clarification as to how well the Ride 60 would address my specific limitations, asking whether I can rely on the following assistance -
Breeze: 100W input / 100-150W support
River: 100W input / 200-250W support
Rocket: 100W input / 350W support,450W short boost.

Fazua's response:
Thanks for reaching out to FAZUA's North American Helpdesk!
The settings you specified are perfectly fine. You are flirting with a fairly low cadence, if that dropped too much lower then that you might not get great results but 60 rpm should be no issue.

 

[rdv]

I can't help you with the Ride60. All I can say is that for riders that are limited to 100w rider input, that's what full power e-bikes were made for. Assist% into the 300's. I know that they're not light and nimble like the Rouvida, but it's an option. I just think that chasing a little more with the Fazua is going to end up chasing a little more down the road. Good luck.

I've been educating myself on the Shimano EP801 you pointed me to. Thank you.
It's a good fit for my low power and slow cadence. I've run some scenarios on the Gribble Computational Cyclist site and conclude that 500W of assistance (at the wheel) would address just about all of the challenges I'm likely to take on in the foreseeable future.

According to roadlesstraveledtruckee latest tests, it provides a maximum of 360W, 430W, and 500W of assistance at 50, 60, and 70 rpm respectively, with torque in the mid60's Nm. Moreover the multiplier is above 6 (600%) over that cadence range. It leaves maximum power as the governing factor, but makes getting to it easier for limited riders.
Should I get to the point that my input drops to 50W and the cadence to 40 rpm, the EP801 would still provide ~300W of support, compared to the ~170W I presently get from the HPR50.

The negatives I've gathered so far are the lack of repairability and a whine (I'm admittedly oversensitive to) under stress.
The Denna would indeed be a good choice, given its road friendly manners, 30mm tires, seat setback, and stem options.
https://www.gribble.org/cycling/power_v_speed.html

 

[Rás Cnoic]

I've been educating myself on the Shimano EP801 you pointed me to. Thank you.
It's a good fit for my low power and slow cadence. I've run some scenarios on the Gribble Computational Cyclist site and conclude that 500W of assistance (at the wheel) would address just about all of the challenges I'm likely to take on in the foreseeable future.

According to roadlesstraveledtruckee latest tests, it provides a maximum of 360W, 430W, and 500W of assistance at 50, 60, and 70 rpm respectively, with torque in the mid60's Nm. Moreover the multiplier is above 6 (600%) over that cadence range. It leaves maximum power as the governing factor, but makes getting to it easier for limited riders.
Should I get to the point that my input drops to 50W and the cadence to 40 rpm, the EP801 would still provide ~300W of support, compared to the ~170W I presently get from the HPR50.

The negatives I've gathered so far are the lack of repairability and a whine (I'm admittedly oversensitive to) under stress.
The Denna would indeed be a good choice, given its road friendly manners, 30mm tires, seat setback, and stem options.
https://www.gribble.org/cycling/power_v_speed.html

with the exception of the TQ40 - near total silence everyone reports - they all whine I think, but as an owner of an EP6, same 85nm as the EP8 its quite a low range tone and not a unpleasant noise, compared to the rather shrill high note from my Spesh SL 1.1 motor.