Weird Specialized discovery....

[Stefan Mikes]

Pakyak is not cheap.

Specialized Turbo Porto list price is EUR6,500.
Giant Stormguard is EUR 6,800.

So you say Momentum is not cheap Aha. Please have look at the price of Riese & Muller cargo bikes. Tern GSD is over six thousand euros.

 

[fritz katzenjammer]

Yeah, the sub-brands that the major manufacturers have come up with seem to be more about marketing (having something thats more attractive to non-cyclists) than it being "cheaper", So Giant markets ebikes to traditional cyclists and Momentum is more about marketing to people who don't ride regular bikes and may look at one of the ebike only DTC brands otherwise. Just like LIV is about marketing to women.

Kinda silly IMO but presumably they serve their purpose.

Having spent a career in the automotive industry I think the marketing guys love the idea of a sub brand, so these things get launched in hopes of attracting that ton of people looking for something special who might not otherwise darken their doorstep.

It’s only later that someone from accounting notices the ton of money spent on duplicate advertising and all of the paraphernalia that goes with carrying, labelling and differentiating a second brand. Often driving said sub brand into the red and doing more damage than good.

Nissan’s Infiniti brand usually comes to mind as it’s been a major contributor in driving Nissan into its state of near bankruptcy.

 

[jabberwocky]

Specialized Turbo Porto list price is EUR6,500.
Giant Stormguard is EUR 6,800.

So you say Momentum is not cheap Aha. Please have look at the price of Riese & Muller cargo bikes. Tern GSD is over six thousand euros.

I think they mean its not cheap in that it has good build quality and a decent parts spec. Its not Giant=good and Momentum=bottom barrel crap. Or Spec-Globe, same comment. They have different models occupying different price points, but the sub brands seem to still be good quality offerings, sold through traditional shops with the dealer support that entails. At least AFAICT.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I think they mean its not cheap in that it has good build quality and a decent parts spec. Its not Giant=good and Momentum=bottom barrel crap. Or Spec-Globe, same comment. They have different models occupying different price points, but the sub brands seem to still be good quality offerings, sold through traditional shops with the dealer support that entails. At least AFAICT.

America wants it cheap, remember? Europe can understand you are replacing a car.

 

[jabberwocky]

America wants it cheap, remember? Europe can understand you are replacing a car.

I genuinely don't know that I'd call the Globe Haul/Pakyak/etc "cheap". They are ~$4k bikes even on sale. If thats cheap to you, I think you have a very skewed idea of what people spend on bikes. They are still considerably more expensive than the DTC brands like Lectric/Aventon/Rad/etc.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Yet another thread....

 

[sc00ter]

I may go to my multi-brand shop this weekend and kick some tires. A few of the bikes others have mentioned are on sale and one also includes a free battery extender! My goals are:
Make the wife comfortable on the back.
Find a one and done ebike to help clear out the garage.
Price technically isn't a issue but my common sense limits it around $4000, give or take $500 for accessories.
Finally, not replacing a car. I'm using this ebike for 'hood adventures, putting in the truck and taking it to the oceanfront and shopping runs.
Up until recently the Xpedition has done well. The brakes kinda stink, I hate the bottom barrel shifting and despise the folding stem assembly. For the price it was a great introduction to long tail ebikes, I just feel like stepping up in overall quality.

 

[PedalUma]

E-Bike Alley Norfolk has over 300 five-star reviews and has two Packer 1's in stock. The website is sold out. They are selling them at 18% off. It is worth a demo-ride. Typically anything commercially produced and mid-drive does not have throttle options. Velotrics are nice and feature rich. And they have thousands of dealers with great support. They are $1799 and have tons of accessory options.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I genuinely don't know that I'd call the Globe Haul/Pakyak/etc "cheap". They are ~$4k bikes even on sale. If thats cheap to you, I think you have a very skewed idea of what people spend on bikes. They are still considerably more expensive than the DTC brands like Lectric/Aventon/Rad/etc.

Have you ever heard of Momentum Compakt E+ cargo e-bike that sells for EUR5,000 in Europe?

 

[sc00ter]

I've known the owners of Ebike Alley all the way back to when they were a Pedego dealer. Good people who run a honest business. I'll try to support a local business if possible before resorting to mail order.

 

[Rexlion]

I worked in a shop that carried Giant. Momentum was pushed as the e-bike brand, not a cheaper brand. I’ve built a few and did not find anything cheap about them. I do remember that any we sold never came back with problems… ever.

for what it’s worth I have a Trek Fetch 2 and am very happy with it. Those rear tubs can hold forty beverages as well as 10 pounds of ice each… if you entertain a lot.

View attachment 201611

Now, that ebike looks really fetching!

 

[6zfshdb]

Regardless of what brand you choose, If you don't do your own servicing, having a local dealer nearby is very important.

One of the issues I have around here is, the local bike shops keep changing the brands they carry. When I bought mine in 2018, there was a dealer here in town. That LBS has since changed brands twice since then. Now, the nearest dealer for my bike is a 3 hour drive one way.

When shopping for my first bike, I took this into consideration. I've been working on bikes since I was a kid. I'm also a DIY'er and learned to service e-bikes myself. I chose a brand that will send factory replacement parts to me directly without going through a dealer.

Obviously, this won't help those who aren't mechanically inclined or handy with tools, but it's never too late to learn at least the basics.

 

[sc00ter]

Regardless of what brand you choose, If you don't do your own servicing, having a local dealer nearby is very important.

One of the issues I have around here is, the local bike shops keep changing the brands they carry. When I bought mine in 2018, there was a dealer here in town. That LBS has since changed brands twice since then. Now, the nearest dealer for my bike is a 3 hour drive one way.

When shopping for my first bike, I took this into consideration. I've been working on bikes since I was a kid. I'm also a DIY'er and learned to service e-bikes myself. I chose a brand that will send factory replacement parts to me directly without going through a dealer.

Obviously, this won't help those who aren't mechanically inclined or handy with tools, but it's never too late to learn at least the basics.

I do this exact thing with motor scooters now. As I get older (A whopping 54 at current writing) I hate doing certain servicing myself. On scooters I no longer do my own valve checks, brake work and tire changes. I pay a shop now. BUT, in the event that certain services need to be done, I can still do them myself. On my current scooter, a Honda PCX, I still do all my own transmission work. I find transmission work oddly Zen like.

My last motor scooter, a Piaggio Liberty 150, developed a electrical gremlin. The check engine light would come on and it would run "weird". Almost normal operation but something was off. I could reset the computer and the problem would go away, sometimes for a day or as long as month. I finally took it in for servicing and discovered the dealership didn't know how to use the ECU reading computer-aka P.A.D.S.! They did the same thing I did, reset the computer and charge me $200! That really made me look at the mechanic side of a dealership for my next scooter! Said Piaggio dealership of the Liberty problem has a high turnover rate of "certified" mechanics.

 

[jabberwocky]

One of the issues I have around here is, the local bike shops keep changing the brands they carry. When I bought mine in 2018, there was a dealer here in town. That LBS has since changed brands twice since then. Now, the nearest dealer for my bike is a 3 hour drive one way.

This is a genuine annoyance. Seems to be mainly a result of the move to more factory store models by the big 3 (Specialized, Trek and to a lesser extent Giant) where they really strong arm stores into buying more product and pushing not just the brands bikes, but all those high-profit accessories and parts. They also try and limit geographic competition, so there have been times where local shops arrangement with one of the brands has soured because a larger volume store in the area started carrying that brand and the company didn't want local competition.

The smaller brands that don't push shops so hard on volume/sales tend to be more consistent, but are often secondary brands and it can be hard to find stock even at dealers (since they have to mainly sell the major brand by contract).

 

[Rexlion]

The chance of needing warranty work is not really high. Any non-warranty work can be done by a willing, local shop even though they don't carry your brand. 3 years ago I bought a Ride1Up from their website (no dealer network whatsoever), but first I called around and found out what nearby bike/ebike shops would work on it if necessary. Turns out, the closest one (3 miles away!) has been great about doing whatever I ask for, and their charges are reasonable. Of the other shops around the metro, only one told me they will not service anything they didn't sell, and one more (the Specialized dealer) said they'd service any decent-quality ebike (Walmart's stuff was specifically mentioned as something they would not work on).

 

[sc00ter]

I just put my Xpedition in the shop and they found 6 broken spokes on the rear wheel! This was a brand new rear wheel from Lectric with only around 100 miles on it. I had the original wheel rebuilt and had them re-install that one for now. The original Xpedition has single wall rims, but my first rear wheel went 500 miles with little issue. I'm pretty sure the factory wheels are machine built as well. Anyways, still on the prowl for a possible replacement. The Globe Haul is still in my head. I didn't make it to the Trek dealer yet to see a Fetch + 2 in person but the rear rack capacity is weird as far as max weight distribution is concerned (No normal sized adult.) and the Velotric Packer seems kinda generic but nice looking in person, plus it has double wall rims. I didn't get a chance to test ride it yet. Finally, the Rad Wagon 5 seems to fill my needs on paper (generic Globe maybe?). I've had great luck with my Rad Runner base model(s) and we use it 2 up locally with no wheel drama.

Also, the shop locally told me to take a Aventon Abound LR out for as long as I wanted. They said if I can get my Luddite head around the tech I'd really enjoy it. So that is on my list now.

 

[stompandgo]

We will drop brands that do not sell. That's business. We will also pick up brands when other dealers drop them, or the mothership takes them away and offers them to us. However, we service anything, and can get any proprietary parts if needed.

We do a LOT of warranty work. Enough to fill an entire day at work sometimes. Well over 90% of it gets covered by the manufacturer or dealer.

Aventon makes great bikes. We sell more Velotric because of the voucher program.