How to change turbo mode to be as smooth as ECO

The thing I am learning is that when my legs feel like they are having to push really hard I go down a gear, and if the bike then starts lurching, I notch the motor down one too. If that becomes too hard because of the gradient, then I notch the motor up one and the gears up two. I am getting good at micromanaging it so I end up in a good place. There is a great deal of micromanagment required because of the constant variation of the very slight inclines of the roads.

Sounds like you've got the hang of it. Congrats.

While I have (many) decades of riding analog bikes, I have only about three hundred miles on an e-bike. With my e-bike, the motor performance is VERY dependent on cadence. As I'm finding out, and you noted above, there's a balancing act between power level and cadence. Sometimes I need more or less power and sometimes I need to pedal faster.

When the two come together, life is pretty sweet.
 
The bike responds quite dramatically to that very slight incline, so that I have to change gear and motor mode when I change from slightly uphill to slightly downhill. That happens a lot, and if I make sure to concentrate on that and make appropriate adjustments then the lurching is under control.
I knew you'd figure it out! Since you clearly ride like a scientist — as do I — you might find this a useful perspective...

What your bike's probably responding to above is a conscious or unconscious increase in pedal force (Fp) on your part. Your torque-sensing Gazelle doles out mechanical motor power (Pm) at least in part on Fp, so the harder you push, the more Pm (assist) you'll get to help you along.

Power balance
Mechanical power at the rear wheel (Pw) ultimately determines your ground speed (Vg) against the total external power loss (Pe) you face from air, rolling, and slope resistance. Among other things, Pe grows rapidly with Vg and headwind speed (Vw) and less strongly with gross weight (bike+rider+cargo), slope, rolling resistance (e.g., on cobble), and the uprightness of the rider.

Ignoring your Gazelle's small drivetrain power losses, Pw is just the sum of Pm and rider power (Pr). This Pr is just the time-averaged mechanical power your legs put into the pedals, and it's proportional to Fp × C, where C is your cadence (pedaling rate) in RPM. So doubling your Fp or C doubles your Pr and doubling both quadruples it.

In steady riding at constant Vg and Pe, the power balance Pe = Pw = Pm + Pr must be met. The ratio of Pm to Pr doesn't matter here — only their sum. You can put in as much or as little Pr as you like as long as you add the Pm to meet the balance. If not, you'll automatically slow to a Vg where the balance is met.

Controlling Pw
On an ebike, you have 4 main controls on Pw: your Fp, your C, your gear ratio (G), and your assist level (L). That's a lot to juggle, but you'll get used to it.

To complicate matters, these 4 controls are all coupled to varing degrees in practice — especially C and G. Controlling C is ultimately what your gears are for.

NB: There's no one right way to combine Fp, C, G, and L to produce the Pw needed to counter the prevailing Pe at a given Vg.
But here's an effective cadence-centric way you might try. It effectively reduces the balls to juggle by one and feels good, too.

Cadence in human power production
Humans have 2 important physical characteristics: (1) a reproducible personal "natural" or "preferred" or "self-selected" cadence Cp, and (2) a roughly parabolic convex-upward rider power vs. cadence (Pr vs. C) curve peaking at a cadence just above Cp. Your own efficiency also peaks near Cp.

You can use this physiology to your advantage — even in daily riding.

Everyone has their own Cp. Yours is just the cadence you find yourself at when pedaling comfortably with some exertion without thinking about it. Go through the gears on a flat road and settle on the one that feels best to your legs. You'll be close to your personal Cp at that point.

The Gazelle display might show your cadence. If not, you can easily count it out with a watch. But most importantly, get to know what your own Cp feels like and learn to reproduce it by feel if nothing else.

Cadence-centric riding
Now, experiment with various combinations of Vg, Fp, G, and L to stay as close to your Cp as conditions and the desired Vg allow. Simple as that. With Cp as a target, you'll soon figure out the Vg vs. Fp vs. G vs. L game that suits you best.

Just bear in mind that Vg is always proportional to C × G. To change the relationship between Vg and C, you have to change G accordingly.

Surely not for everyone, but this is how I ride when not just poking around. It's just 2nd nature now. I have the benefit of a cadence display on my bike, but that's not essential. If you pay attention, your legs will tell you when you're doing it right.

In return, I get the most speed for my perceived exterion, save my legs, and save some battery, too. But most importantly, it just feels good.

All of this will make more sense as you gain time in the saddle and observe and experiment along the way. And nothing about it diminishes the pure joy of cycling. Just the opposite, in fact.
 
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Thank you very much, yes that does make sense. It's very clear to me when the cadence is right. I really don't like to pedal too fast for my own comfortable rate, and when the gears and motor mode are set up so I am having to shove hard on the pedals and pedal slowly than that doesn't feel good either. I totally agree that it's so much about it feeling right. I think the thing is to just keep experimenting.

I'm starting to find that certain roads need certain combinations of gears and motor mode and I suppose as I go further afield then more of those choices will become second nature.

Thank you very much for your help. Your advice to move to a higher gear was the thing that clinched it for me. That was what enabled me to figure it out. Thanks :)
 
I wondered if I could ask another question about fine tuning the ride on my bike?

I just wondered if it is possible to buy a much lighter battery with a lower capacity that would also fit my bike?

I'm wondering because the 625wh battery makes the bike massively heavy, but I am only using about 2% of the battery capacity on each journey. I think the other lower capacity bosch battery that is available is the same weight.

It just occured to me that if I could effectively put half a dozen D rechargeables in, then I could use the bike like a manual bike and only use the electrics when I really need them. I'd then probably have a much easier ride with it. I don't exactly know how to find a lght weight aftermarket battery that would work though.

I wondered if you might know?

Thanks!
 
I just wondered if it is possible to buy a much lighter battery with a lower capacity that would also fit my bike?
Not to be a smart-ass, but I’m pretty sure I’ve never heard anyone ask that before.

If Bosch doesn’t make it, then you risk it not working in your bike. There’s a lot more than just the power cells in your battery. And, you could try to grow your own, but that takes a lot of expertise. There are some companies that might be able to help you out if you want to build a lower-capacity battery. Something tells me this would be more money than you care to spend.

Is there a reason why you bought this bike? There are lighter ebikes out there if you really want assisted ride. At 2% usage for a ride, I’m just wondering. And, of course, you should be able to ride the Gazelle without the battery if you want.
 
I just wondered if it is possible to buy a much lighter battery with a lower capacity that would also fit my bike?
Several challenges here, the first being getting your hands on such a battery. Best to get it from Gazelle if at all possible. Third party solutions come with fire safety concerns. And you'll definitely want a charger made for the new battery.

Simplest and safest solution: If Gazelle offers a range extender battery (RE) for your bike, see if the bike can run on the RE alone, with the main removed.

Guessing you might shed up to 3 kg with a battery reduction. Now for some realism around what 3 kg lighter will actually buy you in your flat terrain.

On the bright side, the bike would get a bit easier to lift and accelerate and stop, and it might feel a little more agile and responsive in use. These are not small things. A light, nimble bike is a joy, and you want your bike to be as responsive and fun to ride as possible.

Problem is, you and the rest of the bike together weigh ~10x that 3 kg saved, and gross weight is all that counts in steady riding. Result: At best a 10% reduction in rolling and slope resistances and no effect at all on air resistance, your biggest nemesis most of the time.

But wait, you have no hills. So handling aside, all that 3 kg would really buy you in steady riding would be a 10% reduction in rolling resistance that you (a) would probably never notice, and (b) could also approach with a $100 tire change.

So your Gazelle wouldn't get much easier to pedal at low or no assist, and you do have a motor. You could spend a lot of time and money lightening it in other ways, but in your flat terrain, the gains would still be mainly on the handling side.

It just occured to me that if I could effectively put half a dozen D rechargeables in, then I could use the bike like a manual bike and only use the electrics when I really need them. I'd then probably have a much easier ride with it.
Even if that could be done safely, it would surely void your warranty.

For best results, however, you'd have to sell your Gazelle and invest in a lightweight, low-power, small-battery ebike like my 17 kg, 240W, 320 Wh Specialized Vado SL. These nimble bikes have small motors and batteries with limited range. They can weigh as little as 15 kg and generally cost $5000 or more.
 
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Hi,

Thanks I hadn't thought about the range extender battery. I will have a think about that. They seem to be about £400 which is a whole truckload of money on top of the £3000 I already spent on the bike.

I think you would be surprised about how much difference it makes not having the massive battery on the bike. The bike is really nice to ride with the battery taken off because it is much much lighter. I think if I could get a battery that was half the weight, it would really make a very big difference.

I bought the Gazelle because I really like a bike with a very upright riding position. There isn't really another brand of bike that would provide that. At least not one I know about.

I did look into lighter bikes but at $5000+ and without the upright riding position it didn't really make sense for me.

I wasn't able to shop around much when I bought the bike, because I had have really difficult caring responsiblities 24/7. I was only able to get about 90 minutes in the shop to actually look at bikes. It was a bit of a scramble, and I ended up just having to take the best one I could lay my hands on and then dash off home.

Thanks for your thoughts on the battery. I will think about the range extender.
 
Thanks, I just looked up and it seems as though my bike could run on the range extender alone. It would be 250wh and would weigh 1.5kg versus my current battery which is 625wh and weighs just short of 4kg. I'm quite temped, I have to admit. At the moment even getting the bike set up is quite a shlep, because I have to take two keys, the massive battery, the computer and all my own stuff as well. If the battery was significantly smaller it would really help.

I think the push that the battery would provide would be reduced to 80% but given the problems I'm having with the current setup having too much acceleration, that might be quite good.

I think I might ring the shop and ask if I could take my bike and do a test drive with the smaller battery.
 
just keep in mind that when running on just the power more re that this will just deliver 80% of its total capacity
 
It's only been about ten minutes so far because I was getting really dizzy riding. Things are getting better now and I am going further afield. The bike really feels much better when I am going slightly uphill or against a head wind. It seems to need something to push again. When it's on the flat with no weather going on, that's when I need to be very very careful to manage it.

I think I am getting it right now and it will just take time and a bit more practise.
 
I was getting really dizzy riding.
jsp, I hope you get whatever help you need to get past that. You really don’t want to be riding on two wheels if you’re feeling dizzy.

Good luck getting things squared away.
 
Thanks, yes, it's really not possible to ride like that. I know what to do though, because I had the same problem with computer mouse use and youtube in the past. It's just a question of learning how to predict how the bike will react when I use the controls in certain ways. Once the bike reacts in a predictable way, I don't get dizzy, which is much better.

I always find it funny if I scroll on the computer without having clicked on the computer window. I do the scroll and the window doesn't react. When that happens, I am so strongly expecting the screen to scroll that I really feel the difference in it not happening. It's to with synaptic plasticity in the brain, and the brain becoming hard wired to expect certain things to happen in certain ways. Getting the motion of an ebike hard wired when over 50 just takes a little more work.
 
Thanks, yes, it's really not possible to ride like that. I know what to do though, because I had the same problem with computer mouse use and youtube in the past. It's just a question of learning how to predict how the bike will react when I use the controls in certain ways. Once the bike reacts in a predictable way, I don't get dizzy, which is much better.

I always find it funny if I scroll on the computer without having clicked on the computer window. I do the scroll and the window doesn't react. When that happens, I am so strongly expecting the screen to scroll that I really feel the difference in it not happening. It's to with synaptic plasticity in the brain, and the brain becoming hard wired to expect certain things to happen in certain ways. Getting the motion of an ebike hard wired when over 50 just takes a little more work.
I really admire your perseverance on this foray into ebiking. You've faced some unusual and rather daunting obstacles, but you're patiently pushing them aside one by one.

We're here to help. Don't let members who can't wrap their heads around unusual things discourge you.

If your dizziness affects your low-speed balance or ability to steer a narrow path, one good trick is to focus your gaze ahead on where you want to end up, not on the path right in front of you.

Amazing how your body and subconscious brain just figure out how to ride to the goal when you let them.
 
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Thank you very much for your help and encouragement. I really appreciate it and especially your tip about going up a gear, which has made everything gradually become clear and easy.

tbh I don't like to cycle dizzy. If it happens, I just stop and go home. That's why I've been going up and down the short road outside my house. It's only now that problem is under control that I am going slightly further afield, but it is still only a five minute walk away. I like to play things safe.

I only had one problem steering my ebike so far, and I looked directly down and realise that the front tyre had gone completely flat. That really felt very odd and I was very glad that there was something so obviously wrong. We have replaced the inner tube and all is well again.

I have contacted the people that I bought the bike from and it turns out that I can just buy the extension battery and run on that without the main battery. It is 250wh which I think means I could go 20 miles on half a charge at my current rate of battery use. The battery would weigh 1.5kg instead of my current 3.6kg 625wh battery. It would be another £400 I think, which would be a pretty big consideration, and I don't know if there is an additional charge for the cable. I am going to think about that, and maybe going and test drive it.

The addition of the bloom handlebars has been amazing. I really like the bike with the new handlebars on it.
 
Thank you very much for your help and encouragement. I really appreciate it and especially your tip about going up a gear, which has made everything gradually become clear and easy.
Glad that was so helpful. I just learned it from paying attention to the circumstances and trying things when the surging appeared.

tbh I don't like to cycle dizzy. If it happens, I just stop and go home. That's why I've been going up and down the short road outside my house. It's only now that problem is under control that I am going slightly further afield, but it is still only a five minute walk away. I like to play things safe.
Your bike probably has a walk mode to help you walk it home if needed. Just a steady low-power assist limited to 3 mph or so. Very handy for lots of other things, too.

The buttonology varies from bike to bike. On mine, it's holding down the [-] button.

I have contacted the people that I bought the bike from and it turns out that I can just buy the extension battery and run on that without the main battery. It is 250wh which I think means I could go 20 miles on half a charge at my current rate of battery use. The battery would weigh 1.5kg instead of my current 3.6kg 625wh battery. It would be another £400 I think, which would be a pretty big consideration, and I don't know if there is an additional charge for the cable. I am going to think about that, and maybe going and test drive it.
As I said before, a lot of money for at best a marginal performance gain in your flat terrain, but the handling gain could well be valuable. See if your dealer will let you test the plan before funding it.

The addition of the bloom handlebars has been amazing. I really like the bike with the new handlebars on it.
The fact that you've already been sucked into the never-ending whirlpool of bike mods is a very good sign. Please share a photo. Not familiar with that kind of bar.

Speaking of photos, just to help you keep eyes on the prize: My 3 favorite forum threads are the ones for sharing ride photos.




NB: There's a 2 MB file size limit on uploaded images.
 
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This is my bike with the new bloom handlebars.

It also has 3D printed parts on the front and rear lights to put a filter on to make them a little bit less bright on the eyes of road users. The front one has a yellow filter on just now and the back one doesn't yet have a filter, but I plan to use filters that will keep them the same colour, but just a little less sharp on the eyes.




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