How to change turbo mode to be as smooth as ECO

[jsp45]

Thank you very much, that is really extremely helpful.

I understand about higher top speed and shorter acceleration time, because I used to commute down the M11 in a 1L Ford Fiesta. That was really quite unsafe feeling, because lorries used to just pull to the left even when I was in the lane that they were pulling into.

With a 1L engine, I didn't have the acceleration to get out of their way.

When I moved up to a 2L Ford Mondeo I was much safer, because if a lorry tried to pull over on top of me, I could quickly accelerate out of the way.

Thank you for explaining it in that language. That is really helpful. I will have a think about that and how it fits into the feel of my bike and the controls.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I will have a think about that and how it fits into the feel of my bike and the controls.

All I can recommend to you is resetting the e-bike settings to the defaults and setting off for a normal ride in your neighbourhood. Expect riding at 12-15 mph. Then you will understand how wonderful your Gazelle is

This lady, a friend and a senior person is a weakling. Still, she is capable of 50 mile rides in undulated terrain. She rides a Bosch e-bike very similar to your Gazelle. She uses TOUR on the flat, SPORT on climbs, and TURBO when she is very tired...

 

[dodgeman]

Another technique that might help is starting from a dead stop in eco and as you get up to speed start turning up the assist.

 

[stompandgo]

I'm glad that the Flow settings helped to take the lurching away. If you'd like to take the next step in tuning, try Eco+. The plus modes are dynamic modes which increase assistance depending on how hard you are pedaling and your cadence. It can provide more power than Eco, and it could be smoother than a tuned-down higher assist level like Tour, Sport, or Turbo. You may also have a Tour+ which starts at a higher assist level than Eco+.

Your Gazelle has hub shifting with 5 gears. That doesn't give you a lot of choices compared to an e-bike with a derailleur, but one shift down from the gear you are struggling with shouldn't turn you into Peewee Herman. Just try it, and play with the dynamic modes.

Your Gazelle is heavy for a bike but not necessarily heavy for an e-bike. Lightweight flat (or riser) handlebar quality e-bikes tend to fall into two camps, a bit lighter and less expensive than your Gazelle, or a lot lighter and more expensive than your Gazelle. The light ones also provide considerably less assistance, and rely on pedaling faster than you would prefer. For your current riding style, a very light e-bike probably isn't the answer, but a somewhat lighter one with derailleur gears might be.

There's nothing wrong with going back to an analog bike, either. They don't care how slowly you pedal, and you'll have a plethora of options.

 

[jsp45]

Thank you that's really helpful.

I did wonder about an ebike with derailleur gears. I think I ended up with hub gears because I like the very upright sitting position of the Gazelles, and they are all hub gears.

I didn't know that that was what Eco+ did. I will try it. Thanks for that.

Do you know if there is an ultra technical document somewhere that explains exactly what these modes all do? All the docs I've found are a little bit simplified and I think I would actually find the nitty gritty detail more useful. I like to know exactly what to expect when I use the controls. I suppose that Bosch much have all these details, but maybe it is a secret. It would be a shame if the secrecy made the bikes harder for some folks to adapt to though.

 

[LeonD]

As someone who's had their first Ebike for only a couple of months, I get the beginner's learning curve. Reading this entire thread, it seems way too complicated.

Here's what worked for me:

1. Set everything back to the default.
2. Go somewhere that you're comfortable riding (i.e. level ground, no traffic, etc). Ride the bike without any assist. Get used to the handling, braking, pedaling, etc of the bike. Get used to a cadence of at least 70.
3. Next, go into ECO mode. Feel the difference between no assist and ECO. Enjoy the assist.
4. Next, go into TOUR mode. Feel the difference between ECO and TOUR.
5. If you need more boost, go and get comfortable with your next highest mode.

For how and where I ride, ECO and TOUR is all the assist I need for 95% of my riding. After riding this way for a few weeks, I changed my modes. I'm now using ECO, TOUR, SPORT and SPRINT. Once I settle on the modes I'll be using, then I'll refine them with the Flow app.

Good luck and safe riding.

 

[stompandgo]

Bosch is really bad with documentation at both the user and technical level, at least in English. This is a very brief overview of all modes, but not all will be available on your Gazelle. There is also a Gazelle user's group that has some videos available, but I haven't watched them.

 

[jsp45]

As someone who's had their first Ebike for only a couple of months, I get the beginner's learning curve. Reading this entire thread, it seems way too complicated.

Here's what worked for me:

1. Set everything back to the default.
2. Go somewhere that you're comfortable riding (i.e. level ground, no traffic, etc). Ride the bike without any assist. Get used to the handling, braking, pedaling, etc of the bike. Get used to a cadence of at least 70.
3. Next, go into ECO mode. Feel the difference between no assist and ECO. Enjoy the assist.
4. Next, go into TOUR mode. Feel the difference between ECO and TOUR.
5. If you need more boost, go and get comfortable with your next highest mode.

For how and where I ride, ECO and TOUR is all the assist I need for 95% of my riding. After riding this way for a few weeks, I changed my modes. I'm now using ECO, TOUR, SPORT and SPRINT. Once I settle on the modes I'll be using, then I'll refine them with the Flow app.

Good luck and safe riding.

Thanks, yes I have actually done all that. It took me a really long time to get used to the bike even without the battery. The belt drive is so quiet and smooth and the bike is so heavy that it feels radically different even without any assist at all. I got to the point in this last week where I kind of quite enjoyed riding the bike without the battery on it, but once I put the battery on it became very very heavy so I really needed to figure out how to use the assist mode.

I think that turning off acceleration is going to solve the rest for me, but I can only do 10 minutes of practise a day so I can't come back with a definitive answer for a few days.

I don't need any more advice just now though. I'm really grateful for the help, but people could stop answering now and I can come back to you in a week or so when I figure out whether I have solved the problem.

Thanks!

 

[Roamers]

did try pedalling much faster, but I just find it really weird pedalling like that. I would prefer to pedal like a normal bike

What cadence do you ride at?

I bought a Gazelle because it feels identical to my analog bike; but my normal cadence is 80-90 on either bike.

My wife doesn't really like higher cadence, but her knees often start hurting until I get her to increase to ~75 from 50-55.

It does sound like you have a cadence problem. Suggest slowly increasing cadence (over time) until it feels normal.

 

[jsp45]

It's okay, I think I have a plan for now. I'll come back in a week or so to report on progress. Thanks!

 

[stompandgo]

Thank you for your patience with us. Enjoy your bike.

 

[jsp45]

LOL. Thank you for being so keen to help. I will report back in a week or so. Thank you very much.

 

[Chargeride]

Riding the Brose in turbo yesterday over some pretty hard terrain, I was find situations where I could pedal to start a steep incline but then had to stop to prevent pedal strikes.
The motor was ludicrously overunning, to the point I could just scoot with my feet while it powered me up.
Also when walking the bike up steep rocky paths, if the pedal caught the ground and spun, the bike would lurch forward for a good two seconds.
Very handy, not sure if its normal or happy fault

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I'm fully aware the OP does not need any advice more, only some practising under the normal ride conditions. I write this so everybody can understand the situation.

The OP is used to ride a traditional pedal bike at 8 mph, which is a normal speed for an untrained rider. She expects the e-bike behave the same, only wants to pedal "more lightly". It is achievable in ECO mode, where the motor just assists the rider with half of the rider's leg power. However, using any higher assistance provides a lot of motor power (for instance, TOUR is like a second rider pedalling together with the human rider). The motor power must go somewhere, and where it goes is the e-bike high speed. The Gazelle just wants to ride fast (so it "lurches").

If the OP wants to ride slowly then riding an e-bike is pointless. Also, attempting to down-tune the motor so "TURBO is as smooth as ECO" is pointless. The Gazelle is being forced to ride slowly and that won't work. The e-bike wants to ride fast.

The advice from @LeonD in post #26 is the best of all.

 

[BlackHand]

I look forward to the OP's update after they have had some more saddle time. @jsp45 it's the nature of public forums: sometimes you get no advice, sometimes you get too much advice, and sometimes your post spurs conversation beyond the original question

@Stefan Mikes Based on this thread I thought I would experiment a bit on my commute home last night with Turbo to see IF it can deliver smooth power at lower speeds. It IS possible but it requires fine control and a VERY light touch. The lowest rider power I saw on the Nyon was 27w while still triggering assist(so about 118w combined to the wheel), but the lowest I could consistently hold was in the 42-47w range which means close to 200w to the wheel and speeds approaching 16mph. An interesting challenge and not something I would have been remotely capable of 5 years ago when I first got an ebike.

 

[jsp45]

@BlackHand I would be really interested to know what you think about turning acceleration down to -5 and doing the same thing and comparing it to tour and Sport also with acceleration turned down to -5. I have to use the actual gears more, but I'm okay with that.

I don't completely follow the numbers in your second paragraph. I would be interested to know more.

I'm a research scientist and have previously designed research equipment that involved programming stepper motors, so I know a bit about this, but that was simpler stuff. There is a whole lot more going on with the bike controls and a bunch of jargon that doesn't come with a dictionary, which livens things up considerably.

Thanks so much for trying this and commenting.

I can only do one test a day so progress will be a bit slow and steady here.

 

[Chazmo]

@BlackHand I would be really interested to know what you think about turning acceleration down to -5 and doing the same thing and comparing it to tour and Sport also with acceleration turned down to -5. I have to use the actual gears more, but I'm okay with that.

I don't completely follow the numbers in your second paragraph. I would be interested to know more.

I'm a research scientist and have previously designed research equipment that involved programming stepper motors, so I know a bit about this, but that was simpler stuff. There is a whole lot more going on with the bike controls and a bunch of jargon that doesn't come with a dictionary, which livens things up considerably.

Thanks so much for trying this and commenting.

I can only do one test a day so progress will be a bit slow and steady here.

I, for one, will not rush you to try to find the best answers for your ebike, jsp! Take your time, and I'm sure you’ll find ways to make the tech work for you!

 

[jsp45]

Hi,
I wondered if I could just come and report back?

I've been out every day practising on my bike and I think I am getting it now.

There are several interacting things that I've needed to work out and I think I am getting it.

The first is that the mechanical parts of the bike are incredibly low friction, so even riding the bike with no battery in it is so smooth that it is like skidding along on my rear end on an air hockey table. That takes some getting used to.

Then I realised that although most of the roads round here are basically completely flat, they do have a very slight incline, either up or down. The bike responds quite dramatically to that very slight incline, so that I have to change gear and motor mode when I change from slightly uphill to slightly downhill. That happens a lot, and if I make sure to concentrate on that and make appropriate adjustments then the lurching is under control.

I am getting on well with defaulting to a higher gear, as that makes the acceleration much smoother. I am also defaulting to the lowest motor mode that I can get away with.

Interestingly, the most comfortable ride I can get is when going up a steep hill. When I do that, I go in gear 2 and turbo and the bike just ratchets me smoothly up the hill, with very little effort from me and no lurching. It's like the bike is really in its best zone on the big hill. On my old manual bike I would have had to stand up on the pedals and push really hard but on the ebike, it's like sitting on an armchair while it gently motors me up the hill. It feels like the rack train that goes up the Jungfrau. There are almost no hills round here so it took me a while to work that out.

The thing I am learning is that when my legs feel like they are having to push really hard I go down a gear, and if the bike then starts lurching, I notch the motor down one too. If that becomes too hard because of the gradient, then I notch the motor up one and the gears up two. I am getting good at micromanaging it so I end up in a good place. There is a great deal of micromanagment required because of the constant variation of the very slight inclines of the roads.

I have now cycled 20 miles and I have 80% of my first battery charge left.

I got the handlebars switched to the kind that come with the Gazelle Bloom and it is especially nice to ride now. Even more like a big armchair.

Thank you very much for your help.

 

[Chazmo]

Hi,
I wondered if I could just come and report back?

I've been out every day practising on my bike and I think I am getting it now.

There are several interacting things that I've needed to work out and I think I am getting it.

The first is that the mechanical parts of the bike are incredibly low friction, so even riding the bike with no battery in it is so smooth that it is like skidding along on my rear end on an air hockey table. That takes some getting used to.

Then I realised that although most of the roads round here are basically completely flat, they do have a very slight incline, either up or down. The bike responds quite dramatically to that very slight incline, so that I have to change gear and motor mode when I change from slightly uphill to slightly downhill. That happens a lot, and if I make sure to concentrate on that and make appropriate adjustments then the lurching is under control.

I am getting on well with defaulting to a higher gear, as that makes the acceleration much smoother. I am also defaulting to the lowest motor mode that I can get away with.

Interestingly, the most comfortable ride I can get is when going up a steep hill. When I do that, I go in gear 2 and turbo and the bike just ratchets me smoothly up the hill, with very little effort from me and no lurching. It's like the bike is really in its best zone on the big hill. On my old manual bike I would have had to stand up on the pedals and push really hard but on the ebike, it's like sitting on an armchair while it gently motors me up the hill. It feels like the rack train that goes up the Jungfrau. There are almost no hills round here so it took me a while to work that out.

The thing I am learning is that when my legs feel like they are having to push really hard I go down a gear, and if the bike then starts lurching, I notch the motor down one too. If that becomes too hard because of the gradient, then I notch the motor up one and the gears up two. I am getting good at micromanaging it so I end up in a good place. There is a great deal of micromanagment required because of the constant variation of the very slight inclines of the roads.

I have now cycled 20 miles and I have 80% of my first battery charge left.

I got the handlebars switched to the kind that come with the Gazelle Bloom and it is especially nice to ride now. Even more like a big armchair.

Thank you very much for your help.

Well, the primary reason that I switched to an ebike was to make riding hills less daunting. Also, I would say that comfort — in general — on the bike was an equally strong motivator.

To me, it sounds like you’re getting kind of kooky performance from your bike. The lurching sounds wrong. And, I don’t know the topology of where you’re riding, but I feel that all that “micro”-adjusting shouldn’t be needed. However, if you’re OK with it and you’re finding yourself more comfortable (and less exhausted) than you were on your unassisted bike(s), then you’re in a good place!

I will say that 20 miles is hardly enough to really get familiar with everything. Keep it up!

 

[jsp45]

Thanks for commenting. Do you think there is something that I ought to be doing to fix it? I did also test drive two blooms and a ridgeback before I bought it and they were pretty much the same.

I tried turning the torque right down and it made no difference at all. Turning acceleration to -5 and keeping support lowish also helps. I haven't adjusted anything else.

The thing I find really frustrating is that there is often no sweet spot between the bike being really heavy to pedal and the lurching starting. It's very very fiddly to get it in the right mode/gear combination to stop it being heavy without it starting to lurch like a frustrated springer spaniel on a short leash. It happens even on tour setting, but not on Eco. I'm not sure what it is about Eco that makes it so smooth. Oddly, my car also has Eco and sport settings and I have to drive the car on Eco all the time because sport also lurches.