Another new TQ motor: hpr40

[PedalUma]

Here are gravity maps of earth. It does matter where you weigh a bike. More importantly it is the altitude of say a velodrome that effects speed. Because of air density. This map is really cool and shows where to buy gold and where to sell it.

NASA Scientific Visualization Studio | Mapping Earth's Gravity

Of the terrestrial planets in the solar system, Earth is not only the largest body but also the most massive. A calculation of its weight puts it slightly over 6.58 sextillion tons (that's 6.58x10^21 or 6,580,000,000,000,000,000,000). It's heavy because everything on our planet has mass—from the...

svs.gsfc.nasa.gov

 

[Rás Cnoic]

Jaysus Pedal, the ol' magic dust is strong with you tonight.

 

[Calcoaster]

I suspect she is wrong. Even the Canyon adverts talk about long range and so on. I cannot see them releasing a motor that cannot be ridden unassisted, given it's an extraordinary light bike. It would be pointless.

EDIT 07/25 Received email from TQ senior tech with accurate info. See post 130 in this thread for details but all is well with the hpr40 in no-assist mode]

Yeah I think she must be wrong too. I wonder if when I said ‘unassisted’ she thought ‘power off’ but my examples should have clued her in. I emailed Ridley with the question and told them what TQ support has been saying. I heard their e-astr is coming to the U.S. soon so I hope they will get some clarification.

I find chat.gpt often goes down rabbit holes, building a convincing but increasingly false narrative that begins with one small piece of misinformation. Kind of like what a lot of people do.

 

[Rás Cnoic]

Yeah I think she must be wrong too. I wonder if when I said ‘unassisted’ she thought ‘power off’ but my examples should have clued her in. I emailed Ridley with the question and told them what TQ support has been saying. I heard their e-astr is coming to the U.S. soon so I hope they will get some clarification.

I find chat.gpt often goes down rabbit holes, building a convincing but increasingly false narrative that begins with one small piece of misinformation. Kind of like what a lot of people do.

Very true. I've got into the lazy habit of asking google questions rather then looking things up. When it's something I know a bit about it's shocking the wrong info I get back. And how by changing the question's word order or changing emphasis I'll get a very different answer. Makes you realise the slippy slope of general questions where I don't have enough info to judge if the answer is correct. And how many people just accept the answer because you know, it's google. Scary.

I did wonder if she got confused by motor off as opposed to assist off. But then would that damage the motor anyway? You'd think it would be disengaged. I'm not an engineer.

I like the look of that Ridley. Still curious to see who else comes on board. The more the better!

 

[Rás Cnoic]

Here's an unboxing & part 1 of what will be a long term review of the Canyon Endurace ON fly.

Yako Rides is a normal bloke living in Catalonia who records his mountainous rides on his Orbea Gain and occasionally gets sent other Orbea and BH bikes to ride and review. Just got sent the Canyon and has it for 2 months.

I like his channel a lot. There's no s*it. He doesn't have zillions of followers or a commercial agenda, He's not an influencer just a big guy who has a heart condition, had cancer and has ridden road bikes for decades and now lives in Spain/Catalonia with his wife and a goat and veg farm living the good life while explores the incredible mountain roads by bike and talking joyfully about local history of this region.

The more he unboxes this bike ( mid range 105 version) the more I like it.

 

[stompandgo]

I don't have 26 minutes right now. Does he verify that the HPR40 cannot be ridden powered off? Because TQ clearly states that the HPR50 can, and that it's a feature.

 

[Rás Cnoic]

Hasn't ridden it yet that'll be next part. Here he's going through each part.

 

[stompandgo]

I think that this question needs to be answered explicitly for the TQ HPR40.

The Pinarello Nytro series of e-bikes use the TQ HPR50 drive system. From the Nytro user manual:

"The Nytro bicycle can be used as a regular muscle-powered cycle by simply turning off the motor. The behaviour without assist will be similar to what happens with a low battery charge."

If the TQ HPR40 does not allow this, then manufacturers will have to state it clearly, as clearly as the statement above.

 

[Rás Cnoic]

I think that this question needs to be answered explicitly for the TQ HPR40.

The Pinarello Nytro series of e-bikes use the TQ HPR50 drive system. From the Nytro user manual:

"The Nytro bicycle can be used as a regular muscle-powered cycle by simply turning off the motor. The behaviour without assist will be similar to what happens with a low battery charge."

If the TQ HPR40 does not allow this, then manufacturers will have to state it clearly, as clearly as the statement above.

It has to be a mistake in communication. No mid drive for road bikes would be stupid enough to not let you ride unassisted.

 

[Yako]

Hello….erm, the question is whether the HPR40 can be ridden with the motor off?????
I rode the Canyon this morning. I turned the motor on at around 5km….am I missing something?
Thanks for your support Rás!

 

[Yako]

Wow! Just reading through some previous comments, this is very weird. The motor, on the 1 ride I’ve had with it, is superb. I always test bikes with the assist off to start - to me, it gives an impression of the bike itself, if you see what I mean? The canyon takes off like a non-assist bike, it’s sharp. There is (obviously) no drag. I would have been happy to ride without the assist the whole ride, but I need to make more vids, so on it went. Cruising, I was going at 34km/h with no assist on the flat. This is good for me. The biggest wow with this motor is the quietness. I’ve not ridden your ‘50 Rás, if it’s this quiet, well, incredible. The tyre noise is louder until the highest setting and low speeds is reached…anyway, if you’ve got questions ask here or better, in comments on the channel. I haven’t been on here for a while!

 

[Rás Cnoic]

Hello….erm, the question is whether the HPR40 can be ridden with the motor off?????
I rode the Canyon this morning. I turned the motor on at around 5km….am I missing something?
Thanks for your support Rás!

Somebody here had contacted TQ who weirdly said that it was not meant to be ridden with the motor off. It sounds like a language/communication misunderstanding from TQ, otherwise it would be a bit bizarre. But great to hear it's all fine from someone who has ridden the bike. Looking forward to the ride review!

 

[Rás Cnoic]

Wow! Just reading through some previous comments, this is very weird. The motor, on the 1 ride I’ve had with it, is superb. I always test bikes with the assist off to start - to me, it gives an impression of the bike itself, if you see what I mean? The canyon takes off like a non-assist bike, it’s sharp. There is (obviously) no drag. I would have been happy to ride without the assist the whole ride, but I need to make more vids, so on it went. Cruising, I was going at 34km/h with no assist on the flat. This is good for me. The biggest wow with this motor is the quietness. I’ve not ridden your ‘50 Rás, if it’s this quiet, well, incredible. The tyre noise is louder until the highest setting and low speeds is reached…anyway, if you’ve got questions ask here or better, in comments on the channel. I haven’t been on here for a while!

That sounds great! I'm not actually the one with a TQ 50 that must be someone else. But the low weight and 40nm of this motor plus Canyon's pricing is sounding very attractive. I'm looking forward to how you find it on the hills, especially 15-20% ones (as that's what I ride), how it compares to the Mahle motors and how thirsty the motor is with the 290wh battery. I'm guessing not too thirsty as it sounds like you'll need to use assist a lot less than on a heavier bike. Delighted you got this bike to test! Though dunno who you had to blackmail at Canyon to hand it over. And for 2 months!!

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Hello….erm, the question is whether the HPR40 can be ridden with the motor off?????
I rode the Canyon this morning. I turned the motor on at around 5km….am I missing something?
Thanks for your support Rás!

Did you happen to ask the bike shop about riding the Canyon with the hpr40 motor off? Unfortunately, one test ride with no apparent ill effects does NOT rule out the long-term motor damage in question here.

Incredible that it's been so hard to get a trustworthy answer to such a basic and obvious question.

 

[Chazmo]

Did you happen to ask the bike shop about riding the Canyon with the hpr40 motor off? Unfortunately, one test ride with no apparent ill effects does NOT rule out the long-term motor damage in question here.

Incredible that it's been so hard to get a trustworthy answer to such a basic and obvious question.

It’s gotta’ be misinformation/mistake, Jeremy. It would be an unforgivable flaw if you couldn’t ride the bike without power.

Are there any ebikes (historical question) that had such a crazy restriction?

 

[Rás Cnoic]

Did you happen to ask the bike shop about riding the Canyon with the hpr40 motor off? Unfortunately, one test ride with no apparent ill effects does NOT rule out the long-term motor damage in question here.

Incredible that it's been so hard to get a trustworthy answer to such a basic and obvious question.

I'm still really scratching my head about this notion. It makes no sense! My jaw will hit the floor if it's confirmed TQ have released a lightweight motor system you cannot run unassisted. It would be downright ridiculous for TQ & Canyon to release a road bike where you cannot ride it with assist off! All e-road bikes are meant to be ridden with assist off a lot of the time this is both why they have a small battery and therefore keep weight down and bike riding as much as possible like a 'normal' bike. It would defeat the purpose of the bike if TQ said this would damage the motor. I think somebody has misunderstood the question or was badly briefed.

 

[Yako]

Did you happen to ask the bike shop about riding the Canyon with the hpr40 motor off? Unfortunately, one test ride with no apparent ill effects does NOT rule out the long-term motor damage in question here.

Incredible that it's been so hard to get a trustworthy answer to such a basic and obvious question.

I have the bike direct from Canyon for two months to review. I expect to cover 2000kms or more. The motor is designed to be ridden at speeds well above the cut-off for long periods, as are all e-road motors. Where did this strange rumour come from? Apologies for not reading through the whole thread, but how is this damage supposed to occur? I did a pleasant descent today at over 90km/h…I imagine that would speed up any possible damage. I can ask Canyon of course, but it sounds absurd. I’m an independent reviewer btw, no ties to any bike manufacturer.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

It’s gotta’ be misinformation/mistake, Jeremy. It would be an unforgivable flaw if you couldn’t ride the bike without power.

Are there any ebikes (historical question) that had such a crazy restriction?

Agree, hard to believe it wouldn't be OK to ride this motor in OFF given the ebikes it's destined for. But I'd still want a definitive answer before plunking down the kind of money these bikes will likely cost.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Where did this strange rumour come from? Apologies for not reading through the whole thread, but how is this damage supposed to occur?

First mention here. Someone at an LBS told a guy who told another guy.... Then a rep at TQ said it's true. That's the problem.

 

[Yako]

Crazy stuff. I’ll ask TQ now, though if the motor can’t disengage, it wouldn’t be long term damage, it would be immediate, and 90km/h would bugger it for certain. Instead, the cut-off in and out of assist was perfect - impossible to detect. The press blurb for the HPR 40 makes a big thing of this, and I’d agree. I even feel like a twat for asking, but I will, for clarity