Another new TQ motor: hpr40

[Stefan Mikes]

I had a talk with my race competitor who rides a 2021 TREK e-Caliber with a Fazua motor. While the Fazua is indeed very lightweight (the 250 Wh battery is not heavy either, and his e-bike is all carbon, making it weigh some 17 kg, which is very light as for an XC full suspension e-MTB), he described his experience with the Fazua power delivery and electronics as "not refined, primitive". If a TQ HPR40 e-bike of a similar class becomes available, he could be interested. NB: It is his wife's e-bike He normally rides a pedal-power Supercaliber.

 

[stompandgo]

View attachment 196055

We had some team bikes around in the office

Wow. Please tell us the story.

 

[stompandgo]

i don’t like SRAM anything, but the pricing is pretty comparable to what others do in the space, the $7850 skitch has the same level SRAM drivetrain as the $8999 creo 2, right?

The Cannondale Tesoro Carbon with Apex is $5,499, and with Eagle AXS is $6,599. Both are in the 16Kg range as they have Bosch Performance Sprint drive units. The Pinarello Nytro Allroad E5 with 12 speed Deore, the TQ HPS50 drive unit, and a 360Wh battery is on sale for $4,800, list $6,000.

This is why I believe that the Skitch is overpriced in its segment.

 

[Calcoaster]

The Cannondale Tesoro Carbon with Apex is $5,499, and with Eagle AXS is $6,599. Both are in the 16Kg range as they have Bosch Performance Sprint drive units. The Pinarello Nytro Allroad E5 with 12 speed Deore, the TQ HPS50 drive unit, and a 360Wh battery is on sale for $4,800, list $6,000.

This is why I believe that the Skitch is overpriced in its segment.

I think we will be seeing more discounted hpr50 bikes. From what I’ve read, TQ is going to concentrate on their two newer motors, the hpr60 and the hpr40. The U.S. trek site now shows their domane+slr 9 and 7 as having the hpr60. They’re using the same 360wh battery as the 50 so it’s probably a direct swap over with no frame modifications. The 40 would need a different frame so time will tell if trek will build that one. They might determine US riders are more interested in bigger and faster rather than lighter and more subtle. I hope to see the 40 used here in the future. It is nice to see that TQ made their hpr60 to be an upgradable bolt-in to the hpr50, unlike what specialized has done with their SL motors.

 

[BlackHand]

The Cannondale Tesoro Carbon with Apex is $5,499, and with Eagle AXS is $6,599. Both are in the 16Kg range as they have Bosch Performance Sprint drive units. The Pinarello Nytro Allroad E5 with 12 speed Deore, the TQ HPS50 drive unit, and a 360Wh battery is on sale for $4,800, list $6,000.

This is why I believe that the Skitch is overpriced in its segment.

To be fair, if you are counting sales/prior model year pricing then Santa Cruz lists the Apex flat bar at $5100 and the AXS model at $6200 right now on their site. They did seem to raise the list price this year, but you can find them listed at 10% off every day and 15-20% pretty regularly.

 

[Catalyzt]

Fascinating about your Competition! And great you still have it and ride it. When I got mine I was mid teens and racing as a junior in Ireland. It was second hand from a fellow club cyclist who'd saved up and imported an amazing Tommasini frame from Italy, Columbus tubing, chrome lugs, extraordinary cross hatch paint job, a true thoroughbred. I raced on the Competition a bit then it became my training bike after, again through the club, I got a used but in pristine condition Peugeot Perthus ( with 531 professional tubing- the red coloured decals). Gorgeous F&F, same as the Z Peugeot team raced at the Tour (Though the pro team bikes were 753 lightweight tubing). My other road bike when I raced was a Sean Kelly cast off, a Vitus glued aluminium frame. Very light. Kelly, as the canny farmer's son he was, would sell off all his team bikes end of season. My Vitus had probably 5 other club cyclist owners before I got it! That was the way back then, few cycling shops in Ireland stocked high end racing frames, everything came through word of mouth in the club or via friends, no eBay, no internet. Nobody used high end road bikes just for exercise back then, only people who raced or used to race. All the dentists played golf back then, not obsessing over carbon fibre €4000 wheels like today!

Bikes from that era look so 'thin' now; thin elegant steel tubes, thin rims, thin tyres, simple rim brakes not chunky disks, parts polished alloy not anodised black. Different times. Anyway google is great- I put Raleigh Competition 1987 501 in and out it spat my exact bike:

View attachment 196054

View attachment 196055

We had some team bikes around in the office

Whoa! Interesting to look at those forks-- the gentle, smooth curve, like my Competition, vs. this rando stock photo of a Professional, which has the more dramatic angled fork. The Teams are stunning! Love that red and black, and yes, the tubes look so thin today. (And I think about having the frame checked, I've crashed the Competition a couple of times.) The fork does seem to vary by model year-- some years, the fork on the Pro looks just like the Comp. Maybe this was just some obscure marketing point in 1973 or 74.

My buddy, who I took care of when he wound up with pneumonia abroad and nearly died, has a Professional that he keeps in New York, and we do ride them together when we can coordinate trips. Curiously, about eight months before he went into the ICU, we noticed how badly he was struggling on our usual ride in CPW (though he wouldn't quit.) This detail, when relayed to his treatment team, was one of several (PsO2 readings during that time period, etc.) that informed the final diagnosis: Long covid, original pre-vaccine variant, compromised his breathing which ultimately set him up for a very obscure type of pneumonia. He's made a full recovery, and Lord willing, we will ride together again this summer!

 

[mschwett]

The Cannondale Tesoro Carbon with Apex is $5,499, and with Eagle AXS is $6,599. Both are in the 16Kg range as they have Bosch Performance Sprint drive units. The Pinarello Nytro Allroad E5 with 12 speed Deore, the TQ HPS50 drive unit, and a 360Wh battery is on sale for $4,800, list $6,000.

This is why I believe that the Skitch is overpriced in its segment.

yeah, but comparing sale prices to not isn't really apples to apples. bikes often go on sale, and the current Rival AXS Nytro Gravel bike is $7,800 MRSP, the tesoro carbon 1 is $6,600 with some similar GX eagle bits (not really following why they mix up the parts so much on SRAM groups!) but is a couple pounds heavier, bosch vs tq, lots of little differences no doubht. perhaps a slightly better value but in this space the MSRP range is 6-9k, with specialized at the high end, cannondale towards the lower, pina and santa cruz right in the middle, no?

 

[stompandgo]

So ignore the sale prices. I posted MSRP for every example. Compare MSRP and my point stands.

 

[stompandgo]

I think we will be seeing more discounted hpr50 bikes. From what I’ve read, TQ is going to concentrate on their two newer motors, the hpr60 and the hpr40.

If I were in charge of TQ marketing, I'd slash the price of the HPR50 and make it the entry level, low priced drive unit option. Rebate all existing stock, including what manufacturers have on hand in and out of bikes, to the new price. Keep the HPR40 and HPR60 as the latest models at full price.

 

[mschwett]

another very nice looking new bike with the HPR40, this one a ridley gravel bike. $9k GBP in GRX di2

 

[mschwett]

How come, and what do you prefer?

i’ve just always preferred the choices shimano makes. the ergonomics and aesthetics fit me better, and i really, really dislike the small batteries attached to the derailleurs that SRAM does. they are ugly and need to be charged too often. shimano puts a battery in the seat tube and wires the derailleurs. they last a very long time and are inside the bike, not hanging out there being ugly. i also find the flat top chain super ugly. pushing both shifters to shift the front makes no sense to me, it should be either one shifter for the front and one for the rear, or one for both and it shifts the front itself when you ask to go beyond a pre-specified ratio. add toxic brake fluid, generally tacky aesthetics on road bikes, and the use of power spiders rather than arms and i’m all shimano all the time.

many of these things are just personal preference.