Do you support the US federal E-BIKE act?

[AvalancheRun]

This thread did not exist during the last administration.

The hand-wringing is cyclical.

 

[J.R.]

With respect to solving that problem, that train left the station LONG ago. To fix it we essentially have to stop all government spending, likely for decades, which is never going to happen. Citing it as a reason to pare back something that has such obvious benefits to society is cutting off your nose to spite your face.

If nothing else, EVs not reliant on petroleum are part of a strategic goal for the USA in terms of creating energy independence - and an economy - free of foreign entanglements. Europe got this lesson right up the ass a year or so ago after relying on Russian energy and suddenly realizing the spigot is getting shut off and without it they are screwed.

EVs will be free of foreign entanglements? Our EPA doesn't allow mining of the materials to make EVs. Every day we are becoming more dependent on China. We are already getting it in the back door.

Someone making 150 grand a year doesn't need help buying a car. Sure, handouts are popular, because everyone loves free stuff.

Where was everybody in this thread when the last administration was adding 8 trillion to the debt?

8 T$ was a disgrace then, and another 8 T$ before this administration is at 4 years is another disgrace. Nothing I've posted could be attributed to one political party or administration. I have zero respect for all of them.

I do find it incredulous that anyone thinks it good policy to give handouts to any entity that doesn't need it. We've driven our youth into poverty with student loans, and with that given extreme wealth to colleges and universities. We hand out loans for ridiculous pursuits and colleges raise tuition, even though their endowments are the size of some city budgets. Harvard's endowment, this is not used to operate the institution, is 50 billion dollars. NYCs 2024 budget is 107 billion dollars.

We need to spend our limited funds more wisely. When I was 23 in the 80's, I was married for a year, my wife didn't work and we bought our first house. I didn't have a degree; I came from a working blue-collar family, and they were in no position to help. Young people today can't buy a house or start a family, and they are in debt for tens of thousands of dollars. People think they should contribute to a fund for other people to buy a Tesla? That is insane.

 

[AvalancheRun]

EVs will be free of foreign entanglements? Our EPA doesn't allow mining of the materials to make EVs. Every day we are becoming more dependent on China. We are already getting it in the back door.

Someone making 150 grand a year doesn't need help buying a car. Sure, handouts are popular, because everyone loves free stuff.


8 T$ was a disgrace then, and another 8 T$ before this administration is at 4 years is another disgrace. Nothing I've posted could be attributed to one political party or administration. I have zero respect for all of them.

I do find it incredulous that anyone thinks it good policy to give handouts to any entity that doesn't need it. We've driven our youth into poverty with student loans, and with that given extreme wealth to colleges and universities. We hand out loans for ridiculous pursuits and colleges raise tuition, even though their endowments are the size of some city budgets. Harvard's endowment, this is not used to operate the institution, is 50 billion dollars. NYCs 2024 budget is 107 billion dollars.

We need to spend our limited funds more wisely. When I was 23 in the 80's, I was married for a year, my wife didn't work and we bought our first house. I didn't have a degree; I came from a working blue-collar family, and they were in no position to help. Young people today can't buy a house or start a family, and they are in debt for tens of thousands of dollars. People think they should contribute to a fund for other people to buy a Tesla? That is insane.

It’s not a handout, it’s a policy aimed at driving better environmental outcomes.

Speaking of handouts, the federal gas tax has not been raised since 1993. There is an environmental cost to burning endless amounts of gasoline that is not being shouldered by drivers.

Same goes for driving infrastructure. The gas tax does very little to pay for maintenance and construction of highways. The taxpayer shoulders the burden whether or not they even drive.

 

[m@Robertson]

EVs will be free of foreign entanglements? Our EPA doesn't allow mining of the materials to make EVs. Every day we are becoming more dependent on China. We are already getting it in the back door.

Thats just not true. Here's one example.

Tesla's 'money-printing' lithium refinery to come online sooner than anticipated

Tesla’s lithium refinery, which CEO Elon Musk called a “money-printing machine,” is now expected to come online sooner than anticipated....

electrek.co

thats just a lithium refinery. What about a lithium mine? Here's just one within the US and its massive>

North America’s largest lithium mine can now break ground – that's great news for EVs

A US court ruling means North America's largest source of lithium, a vital metal for EVs and renewables, can now be tapped.

electrek.co

There are more examples in related areas, particularly in solar panel production.

Someone making 150 grand a year doesn't need help buying a car. Sure, handouts are popular, because everyone loves free stuff.

Again this is social justice warrior stuff. Its not about the buyer. Increased sales and a larger market makes it possible to realize economies of scale that lead to a shift from low volume, high unit profit items to high-volume, low-individual unit profit products. The goal is not incentivizing the buyer anywhere near as much as it is growing the manufacturing sector.

This sort of state-sponsored capitalism is exactly how the US manufacturing got buried by the Far East, what used to be called the Four Tigers of Asia to which we can now add a fifth: Mainland China. Countries that saw a money printing machine in their own country that just needed a push to get it going. In the USA we have seldom been smart enough to look after our interest thusly, leaning far more towards the sink-or-swim laissez-faire model... and we've gotten our asses handed to us as a result.

 

[J.R.]

Thats just not true. Here's one example.

Tesla's 'money-printing' lithium refinery to come online sooner than anticipated

Tesla’s lithium refinery, which CEO Elon Musk called a “money-printing machine,” is now expected to come online sooner than anticipated....

electrek.co

thats just a lithium refinery. What about a lithium mine? Here's just one within the US and its massive>

North America’s largest lithium mine can now break ground – that's great news for EVs

A US court ruling means North America's largest source of lithium, a vital metal for EVs and renewables, can now be tapped.

electrek.co

There are more examples in related areas, particularly in solar panel production.

Again this is social justice warrior stuff. Its not about the buyer. Increased sales and a larger market makes it possible to realize economies of scale that lead to a shift from low volume, high unit profit items to high-volume, low-individual unit profit products. The goal is not incentivizing the buyer anywhere near as much as it is growing the manufacturing sector.

This sort of state-sponsored capitalism is exactly how the US manufacturing got buried by the Far East, what used to be called the Four Tigers of Asia to which we can now add a fifth: Mainland China. Countries that saw a money printing machine in their own country that just needed a push to get it going. In the USA we have seldom been smart enough to look after our interest thusly, leaning far more towards the sink-or-swim laissez-faire model... and we've gotten our asses handed to us as a result.

The US has one mine and those materials are shipped to China. The US has regulated the industry to the point no company is willing to invest in the attempt. Then you have the states saying not in my back yard.

Maine Has the Lithium America Needs, But Won't Allow Mining

Gem hunters in Maine found one of the richest lithium deposits in the U.S. State laws mean they can't mine it.

time.com

The world’s richest known lithium deposit lies deep in the woods of western Maine, in a yawning, sparkling mouth of white and brown rocks that looks like a landslide carved into the side of Plumbago Mountain.

But like just about everywhere in the U.S. where new mines have been proposed, there is strong opposition here. Maine has some of the strictest mining and water quality standards in the country, and prohibits digging for metals in open pits larger than three acres. There have not been any active metal mines in the state for decades, and no company has applied for a permit since a particularly strict law passed in 2017. As more companies begin prospecting in Maine and searching for sizable nickel, copper, and silver deposits, towns are beginning to pass their own bans on industrial mining.

There is only one operational lithium mine in the U.S., in Nevada, and one operational rare earth element mine, in Mountain Pass, Calif., meaning that the U.S. is dependent on other countries for the materials essential for clean energy technologies like batteries, wind turbines, and solar panels. Even after they’re mined, those materials currently have to be shipped to China for processing since the U.S. does not have any processing facilities.

 

[J.R.]

It’s not a handout, it’s a policy aimed at driving better environmental outcomes.

Than it not working and we need to start giving cars away for free. Let's start with everyone making less than $20 an hour, that doesn't live with their parents.

It's welfare for people that don't need it. It's taking money that could be better spent. It does buy votes, but no one considering a $100k plus car is buying because of the kick-back.

 

[Zekeer]

Are you serious? I'm sorry, but this is a truly ludicrous statement. No one is suggesting that the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere fall to zero! No one is trying to make everyone die! Zero CO2 by 2030 refers to the PRODUCTION of EXCESS CO2 through industrial processes. We are no NOWHERE NEAR critically low CO2 in the atmosphere - we are currently experiencing the very real and very damaging effects of EXCESS CO2. Ignorance and the advancement of extremely faulty pseudo-science idiocies like this are much more likely to be the death of us all than efforts attempting to address the very real problem of excess CO2 by reducing production to a more sustainable level.

No we aren't . Currently we are just over 3% If it falls below 2% everything dies . Do you listen to what they say at the WHO and WEF ? They are planning to depopulate the world . Open your eyes and ears . This is it and the recent events in Israel validate that in spades .

 

[Zekeer]

Ha yes, its not a well shared fact that below 150ppm plants wont grow, we were quite close to that before we started burning fossil.
They are loving it, but it always dangerous to turn the knobs of the atmosphere.

HA what do you know . Someone else that has a brain . Plus remembers 3rd grade science class . Think about how arrogant these globalist elites are . They can't control the weather . When they cloud seed they screw it all up .

 

[Zekeer]

I saw somewhere the ships that transport 'stuff' across the oceans spew much more stuff into the atmosphere than vehicles ever will. Maybe targeting the wrong avenue.

The pipeline America blew up did 100 years worth of damage . Climate Change is all a means to an end of controlling people . What is coming is hell on earth , literally .

 

[Kayakguy]

Not sure how we subsidize driving being as the fuel taxes and registration costs, especially here in Calif., are so high. But I'm sure the .gov does, as you say, in some way. The EV credit income levels are ridiculously high:

• $300,000 for married couples filing jointly
• $225,000 for heads of households
• $150,000 for all other filers

Agree, stop the credits and apply it to infrastructure. The biggest downfall of the push for EV's with artificial deadlines, is the infrastructure can't support it.

A similar dilemma faced the gasoline auto at its inception. Typically, you bought your gas in a can at a general store, not at a special station devoted to automobiles. And the roads everywhere were atrocious. It took along time before you could set off on a trek assured of good roads and plenty of gas stations. To paraphrase a popular meme, if you build e cars, it (the infrastructure) will come.

 

[Kayakguy]

It's all a scam . C02 makes up less then 4% of our total atmosphere . If it falls below 2% . Everything including us dies . Which is the intention anyway . Zero C02 by 2030 ?? That means we are all dead . LOL Seriously it's what they have in mind

It's pretty obvious that the intent is not to eliminate CO2 altogether, but to limit the amount being added now at an exponential rate. Excessive CO2 not only increases global warming, it increases the acidity of the oceans, which is tough on marine organisms. These effects are already being recognized as happening now, not just in a hypothetical future.

 

[Chargeride]

Ive always said there are three facts in the agw debate.
We have increased co2
No one really know how this will play out
We'll never reduce co2, it will keep going up.

 

[Jason Knight]

Make it a rebate rather than a tax credit.

This. Because making it a tax credit only helps the wealthy who to be frank, would/should already be able to afford it.

 

[Blakeman62]

Just more E-bike welfare, anytime you involve the government, it will find a way to screw things up every time.

 

[David42000]

It's both surreal and tragic that humans can't accept the basic, undeniable facts of climate change that have been established by overwhelming consensus in the scientific communities, and work together towards solutions.

In Kansas, the basic undeiable fact is that climate change has brought us a) a milder summer without 105f extremes that we used to have; b) overall milder winters that have colder extremes (just for a few days) and c) an extended growing season. No-one talks about climate change being a benefit to some even though it may bring harm to others, always doom and gloom that doesn't account for human resilience and adaptation. We don't need a climate change solution here. I'm all for green energy for other reasons.

 

[David42000]

I saw somewhere the ships that transport 'stuff' across the oceans spew much more stuff into the atmosphere than vehicles ever will. Maybe targeting the wrong avenue.

And the progressive view is just now rediscovering sail powered ocean transit--some talk like it is something new. Sometimes two steps forward is three steps back. Be prepared for the Chinese supply chain to be slowed.

 

[David42000]

Just more E-bike welfare, anytime you involve the government, it will find a way to screw things up every time.

You can say that again.

 

[David42000]

It's all a scam . C02 makes up less then 4% of our total atmosphere . If it falls below 2% . Everything including us dies . Which is the intention anyway . Zero C02 by 2030 ?? That means we are all dead . LOL Seriously it's what they have in mind

There are not that many ways to reduce total human population of the earth to 500 million in just a few decades. Whether you're right or not about this specific means, you're on track as a defender of humanity.

 

[David42000]

There are some serious issues to address, in London housing developments are being held back because they cannot be supplied with the electrical capacity to feed the mandatory charging point capacity.

More and more apartments are banning them charging or even being parked in underground parking.

To turn the UK electric for all vehicles would require massive pylon installation, and funnily enough theyve just started changing the style to these 'worlds first' T pylons and actually asked us if we like them, which im pretty sure is a fallback for when they start covering the country in them.

Im always amused by claims that they will be able to control your car, well they dont have to be electric for that.
Home charge points are programmed with random start times, just to make sure everyone doesnt set them for an exact time like 7pm or when cheap tarriffs kick in , and its obviously a next step to control them completely to balance the grid ...and it will no doubt be a premium service to override that.

To context what we are up against, Oxford uni calculated to run the country completely on electricity and only use wind turbines, would require the worlds turbines offshore and every lake turned into hydro storage.
Parked hundreds of miles out..
Just for the UK ..
Probably why germany has announced another fusion investment.

Ebikes as an alternative.
It rains all the time and a lot of cheap ebikes arent even safely waterproof.
Theft is treated as a joke.
You cant insure them against theft without ten locks and an armed guard.
Companies wont let you park them inside .
The roads are like death race 2000, but with drivers scrolling phones added in.

I would love a world where everyone scooted around in those car form velomobiles.

In the U.S., in Congress, it seems only Thomas Massie is keenly aware of the grid problems you complain of, and nobody listens, though he is an MIT trained electrical engineer. It's becasue Democrats don't like him for being a Republican, and Republicans don't like him for being a libertarian at heart when sensible people should like him for not having a dog in the fight.

 

[David42000]

in almost all jurisdictions, roads are funded by a mix of sources, many of which have absolutely nothing to do with the sale of gasoline. everything from sales tax increments to property taxes to general funds (income and corporate taxes) etc. the share of infrastructure spending paid for by gas taxes varies from almost nothing (new jersey - only 14%, 67% via tolls!) up to almost 100%. it’s very easy to add the estimated “revenue” from gas taxes to an EVs registration.

Without doubt. Still, gas taxes are earmarked as a higher contributor to financing the roads than most of these other sources you mention. I note in other threads you're still talking about this as a (goofy) reason sovereign citizens are silly. None of them I have ever seen argue about who pays for the roads.

what is not accounted for is the trillions (yes trillions) that have been spent on foreign adventures we never would have made without the impact of oil on policy, nor the enormous health and environmental costs of pollution over the last 70 years, which are impossible to even estimate.

But of course. But we did not have green alternatives back when this U.S. behemoth was built, the oil behemoth that now enables a luxury to experiment with green energy at our leisure. This is like not appreciating who pays for the roads. You don't appreciate how your high standard of living was achieved on the backs of the third world. Now that you have the benefits of the petrodollar, you're pretending that America's wealth you benefit from without complaint is evil ab initio. If you were speaking in the 1950s, you'd be arguing for oil dominance for the same reasons of energy independence.

there are many very good reasons - from energy independence to health - to subsidize the transition to EVs.

Indeed. But not because you're enjoying a lifestyle that those in third world countries will never have according to "carbon credit" logic.