$2,500 for a Lightweight, Class 3 eBike With Manual Gear Shifting: Am I Dreaming?

[cryptacle]

After a couple of weeks of research and board trolling, I have finally determined my ideal setup, listed in priority order:

• Max weight 45 lbs.
• Manual gear shifters
• Throttle
• Class 3

Budget: Max of $2,500

Ideal usage: Everyday biking for exercise and pleasure; use to explore more paved areas and extend rides; rely on motor only when my body demands it. I do not need a bike for commuting.

I understand sacrifices might need to be made, and perhaps the "perfect" bike for me is not out there, but I want to make sure, so I can shift from the research phase to the ebike-owner phase!

Any guidance or recommendations are appreciated. And if I'm asking for the impossible in 2021, let me know!

 

[Achterbahn]

Your ideal usage scenario doesn't really scream class 3 to me...

 

[Taylor57]

After a couple of weeks of research and board trolling, I have finally determined my ideal setup, listed in priority order:

• Max weight 45 lbs.
• Manual gear shifters
• Throttle
• Class 3

Budget: Max of $2,500

Ideal usage: Everyday biking for exercise and pleasure; use to explore more paved areas and extend rides; rely on motor only when my body demands it. I do not need a bike for commuting.

I understand sacrifices might need to be made, and perhaps the "perfect" bike for me is not out there, but I want to make sure, so I can shift from the research phase to the ebike-owner phase!

Any guidance or recommendations are appreciated. And if I'm asking for the impossible in 2021, let me know!

45 lbs for $2500 may also be tough. Espin Sport and Flow are around 55 lbs and have your other requirements.

Espin Sport Review

Price: $1799 | Model Year: 2019 | The Espin Sport is a feature-complete commuting and mixed-use Ebike that includes a rear rack, plastic fenders, integrated lights from Spanninga, and an SR Suntour suspension fork The suspension fork works well with locking ergonomic rubber grips and a large...

electricbikereview.com

 

[Luto]

After a couple of weeks of research and board trolling, I have finally determined my ideal setup, listed in priority order:

• Max weight 45 lbs.
• Manual gear shifters
• Throttle
• Class 3

Budget: Max of $2,500

Ideal usage: Everyday biking for exercise and pleasure; use to explore more paved areas and extend rides; rely on motor only when my body demands it. I do not need a bike for commuting.

I understand sacrifices might need to be made, and perhaps the "perfect" bike for me is not out there, but I want to make sure, so I can shift from the research phase to the ebike-owner phase!

Any guidance or recommendations are appreciated. And if I'm asking for the impossible in 2021, let me know!

Weight is first issue. Decide if you want front suspension since it represents about 6-9 pounds, or 50+ pounds. Quality of parts is the next. Perhaps search by weight, there are less bikes under 45#s. Then go from there. Dreaming? maybe. Many choices? No. But you only need one bike!

Try no throttle out on a test ride to get more choices. And I agree Class 1 speed should be fine. Try one on maximum assist. Have you really gone 28 MPH on a bike without using your legs? That is more moped than bike to many. I saw a elderly woman on a throttle bike the other day. NOT a good choice for her. Way too dangerous for her abilities. She was in a ditch, BTW

 

[cryptacle]

Everyone is right about getting caught up in the "Class" speed; absolutely no need for a "3" or possibly even a "2" for my use case.

I did not know that front suspension added so much weight--great to know!

 

[Taylor57]

Check out this one coming in at 34 lbs

The Cannondale Quick Neo Is a Fast, Fun Electric Ride

This is a powerful ebike for fun, mostly on-road romps around town.

www.wired.com

 

[harryS]

When you mentioned class 3, I thought immediately of mid-drives, but then you added the throttle requirement.The original intent of Class 3 was no throttle, You went fast with pedal assist. Some bike makers have tried to dilute that definition saying their throttles shut off at 20 mph. I am disappointed by that creeping of the rules, even though all of my bikes have throttles, and none have speed limiters,

ANyway, you didn't mention torque/cadence pedal assist. You don't care if its mid drivce or hub motor. You left out range. That opens up a lot of bikes, except for weight. Another disappointment to me is how many current ebikes encase the battery in gobs of metal. It's better than the lumps of black plastic that characterized batteries in the past, but didn't save much weight.

I've tried to use pedal assist to hit 28+ mph. Even with my 750W bafang mid drive, it's hard work (easy with throttle) . I don't recommend it unless you routinely hit 25 mph on a road bike, And having no need to go 25+ mph, I'm happy with half that speed.

Anyway, it's good to search/study. Spring is coming. Don't wait too long. or you may be in the queue for August delivery.

 

[EMGX]

Everyone is right about getting caught up in the "Class" speed; absolutely no need for a "3" or possibly even a "2" for my use case.

I did not know that front suspension added so much weight--great to know!

If Class 1 is acceptable and you want name brand with dealer and manufacturer warranty support then the Yamaha Cross Core at $2,399 is a well featured bike that comes in at <45#. Good gear range with dual chainring and 9 speed derailleur. I don't have a Cross Core but I do have a similar (but drop bar) sub 45# Yamaha PW-SE bike which rides nice with or without assist and is very capable. I agree that minimizing bike weight is much more important to me than having a suspension fork.

E Bike | Yamaha E Bikes

Yamaha e-bikes enable more roads and trails bicycle riding. Cutting edge electric bike motors, reliable, long-lasting batteries and intuitive controls make Yamaha e bikes the perfect do-more ride. Yamahabicycles.com

www.yamahabicycles.com

Relative to other products like motorcycles I think ebikes are massively overpriced for what you get but in that market the Cross Core looks like a solid choice at a reasonable price compared to the competition.

If you are a DIYer and have a bike that you already like then a Tongsheng TSDZ2 mid drive can be done for much less than $1,000 including battery. IMO its torque sensing and power is similar to the Yamaha, depending on display you can have a throttle and can be set to class 3 speed if I remember correctly. And they are in stock now. I put one on a couple different Dahon folding bikes (26" Jack and 24" Briza), both weighed ~45# including a 540wh battery. The Jack rode easily at low 20mph speeds and I could climb the steep hills in my area with it.

Eco Cycles – Opening Soon

www.eco-ebike.com

 

[cryptacle]

If Class 1 is acceptable and you want name brand with dealer and manufacturer warranty support then the Yamaha Cross Core at $2,399 is a well featured bike that comes in at <45#. Good gear range with dual chainring and 9 speed derailleur. I don't have a Cross Core but I do have a similar (but drop bar) sub 45# Yamaha PW-SE bike which rides nice with or without assist and is very capable. I agree that minimizing bike weight is much more important to me than having a suspension fork.

E Bike | Yamaha E Bikes

Yamaha e-bikes enable more roads and trails bicycle riding. Cutting edge electric bike motors, reliable, long-lasting batteries and intuitive controls make Yamaha e bikes the perfect do-more ride. Yamahabicycles.com

www.yamahabicycles.com

Relative to other products like motorcycles I think ebikes are massively overpriced for what you get but in that market the Cross Core looks like a solid choice at a reasonable price compared to the competition.

If you are a DIYer and have a bike that you already like then a Tongsheng TSDZ2 mid drive can be done for much less than $1,000 including battery. IMO its torque sensing and power is similar to the Yamaha, depending on display you can have a throttle and can be set to class 3 speed if I remember correctly. And they are in stock now. I put one on a couple different Dahon folding bikes (26" Jack and 24" Briza), both weighed ~45# including a 540wh battery. The Jack rode easily at low 20mph speeds and I could climb the steep hills in my area with it.

Eco Cycles – Opening Soon

www.eco-ebike.com

WOW! Yamaha. Never even crossed my mind but that bike does appear to check most on my boxes. Will read up on some reviews--thanks!

 

[cryptacle]

Thanks EMGX for the lead on looking into Yamaha eBikes.

I'm really digging the mid-mounted motor (do I need to worry about chain snapping?). And I love the warranty and the motor-reputation of Yamaha.

But is this bike worth the approx. $1,200 more when compared with the RadMission? I think so, but I'd be interested in everyone's input.

 

[EMGX]

I have around 1200 miles on my Yamaha PW-SE mid drive bike and regularly ride very steep/hilly areas. There isn't any measurable stretch of the chain yet. I do keep the chain clean and lubed. Chain stretch/breaking might be more of a problem for very powerful mid drives like some of the Bafang motors. Only you can decide worth, the RadMission looks like a nice bike if you don't need more than a one speed drive train. A bike like that wouldn't work at all for me and where I ride but your expectations might be much different than mine.
Good luck with your search.

 

[Coolbob]

• Max weight 45 lbs.
• Manual gear shifters
• Throttle
• Class 3

Budget: Max of $2,500

Ideal usage: Everyday biking for exercise and pleasure; use to explore more paved areas and extend rides; rely on motor only when my body demands it. I do not need a bike for commuting.

@cryptacle Everyone starts their eBike search somewhere and as they learn more about eBikes, their priorities change.

I started out searching for a Class 3 and although other priorities changed, the Class 3 remained and I'm glad. Today's ride is a perfect example of why I am glad to have Class 3 speed, even though I rarely hit the 28mph cutoff. I have a standing card game with friends at a home about 8-miles from my house. Today's was unusually nice, 55-60f, very gusty, but much better than we have had in two weeks and we're in for rain for the next week, so today was a my best opportunity for the foreseeable future. But I didn't have a lot of time to spare, so I knew I would be riding fast (drains battery faster) in high winds (drains battery faster) and I usually ride on a lower assist level, but this was my first ever ride with assistance maxed out for the whole trip (drains battery faster). I knew had enough charge to make the ride there, but it was going to be cutting it close getting back. The weather would most likely keep me from riding again for weeks and ideally you should store your eBike battery at about a 60% charge for storage. So I put the battery charger in the trunk bag, filled my water bottle and hit the road. I glanced at my phone from time to time and was frequently riding at 22-24mph. The ride included 820ft of elevation gain, traffic, stop signs and red lights so I made a respectable average speed of 15.7mph. I charged the battery to somewhere between 80-100% while we played cards and then returned home, I've got 69% left on the battery, close enough. If you like to take in the scenery and going fast makes you nervous, then by all means save some money and get a Class 1, but it you like to bogie, or want to get somewhere quick, then you may appreciate having a Class 3.

Unless your budget is unlimited, you will have to decide what your 'must haves' are and what things you can live without. I wanted to buy a bike from a manufacturer who's been around more than a couple of years, I wanted parts and service support locally if possible, and Class 3. After riding a few bikes at shops within an hour or two drive I realized mid-drive and torque sensing were must haves for me. I loved some of the $4,000 bikes I rode, but that seemed like way too much to spend on my first eBike, but I did adjust my budget upward to $2,000-2,500. I settled on a Momentum Transend E+, it's made by Giant and uses a Yamaha motor and cost $2,600. I've put about 600 miles on it so far and love it.

 

[cryptacle]

@cryptacle Everyone starts their eBike search somewhere and as they learn more about eBikes, their priorities change.

I started out searching for a Class 3 and although other priorities changed, the Class 3 remained and I'm glad. Today's ride is a perfect example of why I am glad to have Class 3 speed, even though I rarely hit the 28mph cutoff. I have a standing card game with friends at a home about 8-miles from my house. Today's was unusually nice, 55-60f, very gusty, but much better than we have had in two weeks and we're in for rain for the next week, so today was a my best opportunity for the foreseeable future. But I didn't have a lot of time to spare, so I knew I would be riding fast (drains battery faster) in high winds (drains battery faster) and I usually ride on a lower assist level, but this was my first ever ride with assistance maxed out for the whole trip (drains battery faster). I knew had enough charge to make the ride there, but it was going to be cutting it close getting back. The weather would most likely keep me from riding again for weeks and ideally you should store your eBike battery at about a 60% charge for storage. So I put the battery charger in the trunk bag, filled my water bottle and hit the road. I glanced at my phone from time to time and was frequently riding at 22-24mph. The ride included 820ft of elevation gain, traffic, stop signs and red lights so I made a respectable average speed of 15.7mph. I charged the battery to somewhere between 80-100% while we played cards and then returned home, I've got 69% left on the battery, close enough. If you like to take in the scenery and going fast makes you nervous, then by all means save some money and get a Class 1, but it you like to bogie, or want to get somewhere quick, then you may appreciate having a Class 3.

Unless your budget is unlimited, you will have to decide what your 'must haves' are and what things you can live without. I wanted to buy a bike from a manufacturer who's been around more than a couple of years, I wanted parts and service support locally if possible, and Class 3. After riding a few bikes at shops within an hour or two drive I realized mid-drive and torque sensing were must haves for me. I loved some of the $4,000 bikes I rode, but that seemed like way too much to spend on my first eBike, but I did adjust my budget upward to $2,000-2,500. I settled on a Momentum Transend E+, it's made by Giant and uses a Yamaha motor and cost $2,600. I've put about 600 miles on it so far and love it.

Thanks for your input and for outlining the recent scenario where Class 3 ruled the day!

Every day, I'm learning something new about the ebike world and it's a lot of fun. But I know nothing will be better than just getting out there to ride!

Similar to you, I'm looking for a company that has some years under its belt--and mid-drive w/ torque sensing has emerged as important factors as well.

Going to match the Transend E+ to the Yamaha Cross Core now. Thanks again!

 

[Coolbob]

Thanks for your input and for outlining the recent scenario where Class 3 ruled the day!

Taking your time figuring out your priorities and then sticking to them is the best way to shop. Class 3 was important to me not because I need to go 28mph, but I often go faster than 18-20mph.

 

[FezUSA]

With a class 3, you always have the option to ride slower. With class 1, you're not going to get any assist above 20mph no matter how much you may want/need it for whatever scenario you're facing! Sometimes it's better to have and not need it than not have when you need it! But it comes with a cost of course, so you have to decide if it's worth it for you. That Yamaha bike is certainly very nice. I would reach out to Crazy Lenny's, see if you can talk to Evan. They have that bike, but also a large number of other available options including some very nice Bulls bikes that may appear to be above your budget, but let Evan weave his magic and see what he can do for you. You may be surprised!

 

[EMGX]

Thanks for your input and for outlining the recent scenario where Class 3 ruled the day!

Every day, I'm learning something new about the ebike world and it's a lot of fun. But I know nothing will be better than just getting out there to ride!

Similar to you, I'm looking for a company that has some years under its belt--and mid-drive w/ torque sensing has emerged as important factors as well.

Going to match the Transend E+ to the Yamaha Cross Core now. Thanks again!

I'm just wasting time with some coffee, feel free to ignore me.
For an extra $200 the Transend has over 20% less battery capacity, less gearing choices, the motor is Yamaha but less powerful at 60nm rated rather than 70nm of the Cross Core, Giant won't list weight so that is unknown.
FWIW the Yamaha PW-SE on my BH gravel bike doesn't drop assist completely at 20mph, it assists up to about 22 as far as I can tell and the speedometer is accurate according to "your speed" type signs on the road. Looks are subjective but the Cross Core looks a lot better to me and the easily removable battery can be an advantage for lifting/loading the bike or if you want to ride without the battery which I have done on my bike.

 

[PedalUma]

Just made this one today. 16Kg. 80Nm/80Km max. 60/40 weight distribution to the rear. Center of gravity less than 9mm from the hubs.

 

[cryptacle]

I'm just wasting time with some coffee, feel free to ignore me.
For an extra $200 the Transend has over 20% less battery capacity, less gearing choices, the motor is Yamaha but less powerful at 60nm rated rather than 70nm of the Cross Core, Giant won't list weight so that is unknown.
FWIW the Yamaha PW-SE on my BH gravel bike doesn't drop assist completely at 20mph, it assists up to about 22 as far as I can tell and the speedometer is accurate according to "your speed" type signs on the road. Looks are subjective but the Cross Core looks a lot better to me and the easily removable battery can be an advantage for lifting/loading the bike or if you want to ride without the battery which I have done on my bike.

All great points! Going to check out the Cross Core in-person this weekend and can't wait!

 

[EMGX]

Just made this one today. 16Kg. 80Nm/80Km max. 60/40 weight distribution to the rear. Center of gravity less than 9mm from the hubs.

The tongsheng performance was a pleasant surprise to me. Excellent power, good torque sensor feel, battery efficient, quiet, not too expensive (at least in the ebike world) and it even looks good. I still need to get my wife's Briza out to try your suggestion of the wheel sensor unhooked to compare performance.

 

[PedalUma]

IMGX, Cool. Thank you. Next I need to drill all the way through the frame of a Big Dummy from Surley. I will be reinforcing the area. On your wife's bike try also disconnecting the throttle if any, and the brake levers. Having a throttle plugged in automatically limits speed and feel even with PAS. I created a new thread but cannot see it. 2021 Specialized 35lbs Failure. I had to use one zip tie and did not want any.