End of the Road with the Local Bike Shop?

[GuruUno]

OK, figured I'd buy a second bike to use while my Allant+ 9.9S is at the local bike shop for repair (for almost 6 weeks now).
So I got a new 2020 Allant+ 7S
Prior to arranging to pick it up I specifically asked: "Make sure that the new Allant+ 7S is flawlessly 100% perfect, firmware updated, printed out report showing the update, and all other relevant items 100%".

Well, they tell me, "The firmware is the latest when plugged into the system".

IT IS NOT!
Drive is 1.0.2.0, Battery 1.9.1.0

So, I called Bosch.

Bosh said it's been available for several weeks.

However, he said the PC's that do the updates have to be Windows 10, 64-bit capable, and that the latest is available wile connected to their system

The LBS has once again wasted my time.

I guess I'm returning the new bike, take my existing bike to another shop.

Incompetence at its worst!

 

[GypsyTreker]

Sometimes that's the only way to get satisfaction. Don't think your LBS will learn from the experience. His model is to blame all the customers that provide him an income. When he finally shuts down he will blame it on COVID.

 

[GuruUno]

So, spoke with "Max" at Bosch (844-723-2453=E-Bike Hotline)
Max tells me that in my 'radius' zip code, only ONE (1) shop is a "Certified Bosch/Trained" shop, and it is not any of the local Trek Dealers.
I informed him that the dealers had the "dongle" to plug in their system and do a diagnostic report, he said that none of the local Trek shops had taken the 4 hour course, there were no certified Bosch employees on their roster (as they have no records of anyone having had taken the certification class), and he made an assumption that he has heard that Trek sometimes just provided their dealers wit the dongle to do the diagnostic report, period. Nothing else.
Key point I'm stirring up here is I wasted my time and bought a new bike and was lied to.
Bye Bye LBS.

 

[GypsyTreker]

Hub drive bikes dont seem to require more than a basic grasp of how to change parts. Pretty much put the new part on the way you took the old part off. I find it totally crazy that these companies are willing to sell their brand to dealers only to have their OEM motor folk blame them ( the dealer network) after the sale, for being unqualified. If it was true . . I had a dealer in Fl tell me to keep his acoustic line he had to stock ebikes. He hated ebikes, they were cheater bikes. If the frame holds up on my sub 1k bike my next upgrade will be 48v/750-1000w for under $450. Hope you get your situation settled, nothing worse than waiting on a service dept to "fix" the problem

 

[GuruUno]

Well....it's over.
The love/hate relationship with Trek Stores is over.
Sure, I am a demanding customer.
Sure, I have the right to expect stellar, top notch, perfection from ANY dealer I CHOOSE to accept MY business.
If they FAIL, they are made aware of their deficiencies, and if not corrected, FIRED, and move on to the next available, willing participant.
Unfortunately, although Trek is #1, the leader of the pack, they too have to rely on the "help".

So, if the help is not meeting MY expectations, it is my burden to find the correct LBS to deal with.

Back in the day, prior to automobiles, people used to be transported by horse and carriage. (if they could afford it).
The terminology was called, "carriage trade" if you were affiliated with the ability to afford the mode of transportation and your expectations were of the highest standards, as you had the means to hire the level of professionals to maintain your "carriage".

Move fast forward to today.

It's where we are at.

If I can afford an e-bike and I choose Trek to be the source of the product, I have an expectation.

Yes, they are a great company, they bend backwards, they try to the best of their ability.

However, they have to rely upon the help.

Good help is hard to find.

Sure, Covid-19 makes it even more difficult.

However, it seems to be an excuse not only for lack of service, expectations, etc., it seems to be the answer for anything that is not.

So, loooooooooooooooooooooong story short, Trek graciously stated they wished to part ways with me and refunded all of my recent and previous purchases.

Nice.

But now, I have to find that "dealer of choice", professional, caring, business minded and top notch local bike shop.

I'd LOVE to continue and stay with Trek, but now is the dilemma.

They don't want mer because I am too demanding, so now the dilemma.

R&M, Giant, Specialized, Who?

Any better? Any different?

Quite frankly, I've recently visited several "competitors" and all they care about are repairs (the in & out kind) and new sales (if they have any to sell).

With that said, I personally, would like to have the availability of testing, borrowing, trying, ride before you buy, say, 20, 30, 40 miles, and then make decisions.

THEN, have the ability to interface with customes of the particular LBS. How? Good question.

Stand outside, "interview" people? Post on Facebook, Twitter, etc.?

How do you win?

Long winded, I know, but hey, you just don't throw $4, $5, $8, $12 thousand dollars to find out that when it comes time for a LBS to be to "go to" shop for your needs, that they fail.

And miserably.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

I think you need to find the right bike shop and work with them. I've never bought a bike from my LBS, but I still spend $2000-$3000 per year on bike stuff and shop work on my bike. Yes, that is mucho dinero. But you very much get what you pay for. They do a great and professional job and I have a bike that is (at least when it leaves the shop) as perfect as it was when it was new, if not more so.

 

[Clydesdale]

I would definitely be through with that LBS, but I wouldn't rule out other Trek shops in the area just because they are not certified on Bosch mid-drives. Good customer service often is about effort and drive for wanting to please the customer. I'm in Atlanta, there are 4 different owners of about 16 different Trek stores and they range from good to great. I am very familiar with two of the four (both owned locally) and I am certain that both of them would have made sure you got the updated software if you asked, even if they had not previously known how to perform the update. I am not sure if either is Bosch certified, but they would have researched the problem and called to learn before handing me the bike.

Before I gave up on Trek, I would definitely want to try another shop that was not owned by Trek but a local owner.

 

[GypsyTreker]

I would invest in learning how to maintain and fix your next bike. Invest in the required special tools etc.

Perhaps your expectations won't be as crushed if you become "independent" of the dealer network. JMO

 

[rich c]

I would definitely be through with that LBS, but I wouldn't rule out other Trek shops in the area just because they are not certified on Bosch mid-drives. Good customer service often is about effort and drive for wanting to please the customer. I'm in Atlanta, there are 4 different owners of about 16 different Trek stores and they range from good to great. I am very familiar with two of the four (both owned locally) and I am certain that both of them would have made sure you got the updated software if you asked, even if they had not previously known how to perform the update. I am not sure if either is Bosch certified, but they would have researched the problem and called to learn before handing me the bike.

Before I gave up on Trek, I would definitely want to try another shop that was not owned by Trek but a local owner.

I have a hunch that Trek has given up on him. Could just be an asterisk by his name when punched into a Trek Shop computer. I had a fuss with a woodworking machinery company. I complained on a forum that they sponsor. 6 months latter my wife ordered something on Amazon and that company was the business identified as fulfilling the order. Couple days latter the wife gets an email that they would not be shipping anything to our address, ever. Fine with me.

 

[GuruUno]

It is not in my ability to be able to updated firmware.
And when it comes to difficulty items, I enlist the professionals to accommodate my needs.

 

[GypsyTreker]

If you have been *asterisked you may require a different choice in brands. In todays new way of doing business customers who show the least frustration are ignored . I asked to speak to an owner ( of a computer repair shop) and the manager called the police. After a 5min conversation they (the Police) told me I could leave. They were embarrassed and then went and chatted with the manager. Since getting upset no longer means anything to retailers, service depts etc. I simply try to do my own work whenever possible. Since a-holes are in the eye of the beholder, being perceived as one never gets the problem solved. Glad you got your money back.

 

[GuruUno]

So here is the end all.

Customer Service @ Trek Corporate told me, "Well, it seems here that you jumped from one Trek Store to another and now you want to go to another. It seems like they don't meet your requirements and you jump from one to the next. Maybe we should just say that we should end the relationship an d refund you your purchases".

OK, great, thank you.

However, as an analogy:

I go to Stop & Shop, I'm not happy with THAT particular located store, I go to the 'other' Stop & Shop, their produce is fresher, the stock seems to be better rotated, yada, yada, yada, so I "jump ship" from one to the other. That's wrong?

I go to the Whole Foods on XYZ Street in NYC. The fish is no longer fresh to MY needs or expectations and/or requirements. Do I continue to keep going there, buying products that and unsatisfactory or do I consider maybe choosing another Whole Foods that has more traffic and rotates their stock and has fresher seafood and produce.

WHY should it be any different when I use LBS #1 or LBS #2 that I as the consumer, the recipient of services and products, if not being satisfied with the level of service or comfort of knowing that my choice may not be the preferred level of confidence......I should do nothing?

Bottom line:

Accumulation of all e-mails with Trek/Stirling & Waterloo specific to Trek Allant+ 9.9S as of 7/16/2020

12/12/19-Take delivery of new Trek Allant+ 9.9S
12/21/19-Battery loose, flying, replaced
1/12/20-Continue to distress over thumb shifting issues (stiffness)
3/7/20-Inquire re: Sram AXS,
4/15/20- Motor (?) grinding noises
4/23/20, no follow-up
4/29/20, still not indication of resolve
4/30/20, parts installed (new motor), no resolve, hub replacement?
5/8/20, breakdown of parts and labor requested, not supplied, hub noises, request for take-off parts, OEM box, items, etc., receipts for all,
5/8/20-Warranty extension request nothing supplied except verbal
5/8/20, notified of overcharge for SRAM costs, resolved after proof
5/8/20-re-requested all relevant corrected paperwork, billing, breakdowns, work orders, etc., service report and breakdown of all charges as per all previous correspondence as well as replies to ALL of my inquires as previously requested, still nothing as of 7/13/20
5/17/20, still no reply
5/22/20-And, still wanting a complete history of all service performed, items replaced, etc., for my records, and always moving forward for all work., tires/white walls defective
5/24/20-smartphone hub question not answered
5/24/20, review, follow-up!
So, additionally, I’m attempting to do due diligence with my ongoing, multiple requests so that in the event that additional problems do continue or do occur, I would appreciate your providing me with my initial request (and subsequent multiple requests thereafter) for all previous work in a breakdown that is normally associated with any work order other than a credit card receipt with a line item and amount.

1 Battery locking mechanism adjustment issue resulting in damage with replacement resolution 12/21/19
2 Grinding noise, motor replacement 4/15/20
3 Grinding noise, hub replacement 4/24/20
4 Shifting mechanism, cable and housing replacement 1/11/20
5 Warranty extension, is there any? 5/8/20
6 Broken band to hold Lumos blinker (I have receipt, forthcoming in a separate e-mail) 5/8/20
7 Exact breakdowns on SRAM AXS cost, snafu, additional items, etc. 4/23/20, 5/8/20, 5/17/20
8 Issue with fake whitewall stripe peeling on both tires 5/24/20
9 Bosch Smartphone Hub charging issue 5/24/20

I had asked on May 8th for a complete breakdown and again on May 17th. I’ve not received anything and do understand that your shop is busy as well as under a lot of stress due to Corona/Covid. Nonetheless, it would be appreciated that my continued request for complete and specific documentation be fulfilled so that I have all and complete records with documentation for all items which have occurred since the delivery of my new TREK ALLANT+9.9S on December 12, 2019

5/28/20-requested new wheel to replace front bent rim (my damage/accident)
5/31/20-notify of accident and pending drop off of bike for estimate/repair
6/10/20-status-follow-up, no response, multiple calls
6/12/20, still not communication
6/23/20-still long-winded communication to get answers
7/1/20- informed all of Velosure coverage
7/9/20-ongoing communications failure with Trek/Stirling as per status
7/9/20-re-request for numbers/status
7/11/20- ongoing communication to get answers and solutions
7/12/20-notify to break apart estimate for insurance and considered upgrades
7/13/20-Another long-winded e-mail to get bottom line numbers and answers, ongoing miscommunications as to estimate, time, costs, etc.
7/16/20-Bought an Allant+7S just to have until Allant+ 9.9S was repaired, LBS "Bosch Certified Tech" LIED and said that the firmware was updated, which it was not

So to this day, a lot of those things have not been addressed or resolved, hence Trek Corporate saving face and refunding me all previous purchases.

MY opinion (as referenced in a lot of other previous postings):
The Allant is a LEMON.
LOTS of issues.
Regardless of their claim that they have 1,000's in the field, they are prone to problems and have issues.
Just comb these forums, look, read, see.
It's not only me, there are others too.

Look, a LOT of people buy a bike, and it's over, done deal.
The LBS NEVER sees them again, ever, unless they is a major issue that the owner of the bike has no ability to resolve on their own.
But for the most part, most purchases and (my opinion, 90%) are never, ever seen again.
And ME, the Royal Pain in the ASS who has higher levels of needs and expectations keeps going back to take care of issues that should not even be (maybe the Allant was released too early without enough in the field testing)????

So, the end all?
I would LOVE to keep my loyalty to Trek. However, being a fussy and particular consumer, I do not feel comfortable that any of the local Trek Stores in my area can meet my needs or requirements, hence the dilemma as to how to move to the next chapter.

 

[Dallant]

So sorry to hear this. I had my Allant +7 updated today in about 15 minutes and they changed Sport to EMTB mode and made it so the lights can be turned on & off. You may have gotten a lemon from a not so good dealer but I love mine. And by far most folks I’ve heard about are very happy with theirs. Best of luck in your future biking.

 

[GypsyTreker]

Well knowing what being fussy and particular fetches, perhaps a new approach? I say this only because you emphasize this. That said, it does seem, reading posts on here, that Treks have their share of complex problems. Perhaps Trek, when they get into these situations, should simply exchange the problem bike for a new one. Much cheaper for them. They can refurbish the returned bike and put it on a warehouse deals page or ( they probably have enough) offer them to dealers as "program" inventory. Personally if I experience problems out of the gate with a product it never provides the fun factor it was purchased to provide.

 

[tpete61]

So sorry to hear this. I had my Allant +7 updated today in about 15 minutes and they changed Sport to EMTB mode and made it so the lights can be turned on & off. You may have gotten a lemon from a not so good dealer but I love mine. And by far most folks I’ve heard about are very happy with theirs. Best of luck in your future biking.

Well interesting I did the same today with my +7S. Took it in for a going over after 400 miles so dealer could adjust anything needed. They didn't need to do anything by the way. It has been working very well. I also asked if the lights could be programmed to be shut-off. I mentioned the recent update on the Torque rating from 75 to 85. He said yup I can do that also if you want me to. He showed me the update software as he did it. So everything went flawlessly I just can't ride again till Monday as I went out of town. Purchased extended range battery pack. They were very busy so I'm going to install it myself next week. So far still very happy with the +7s and my bike shop.

Not sure why Bosch will not let a customer update the firmware at home. Probably a liability reason or a concern about someone hacking the firmware to make the bike do something Trek doesn't want it to do.

 

[tpete61]

So here is the end all.

Customer Service @ Trek Corporate told me, "Well, it seems here that you jumped from one Trek Store to another and now you want to go to another. It seems like they don't meet your requirements and you jump from one to the next. Maybe we should just say that we should end the relationship an d refund you your purchases".

OK, great, thank you.

However, as an analogy:

I go to Stop & Shop, I'm not happy with THAT particular located store, I go to the 'other' Stop & Shop, their produce is fresher, the stock seems to be better rotated, yada, yada, yada, so I "jump ship" from one to the other. That's wrong?

I go to the Whole Foods on XYZ Street in NYC. The fish is no longer fresh to MY needs or expectations and/or requirements. Do I continue to keep going there, buying products that and unsatisfactory or do I consider maybe choosing another Whole Foods that has more traffic and rotates their stock and has fresher seafood and produce.

WHY should it be any different when I use LBS #1 or LBS #2 that I as the consumer, the recipient of services and products, if not being satisfied with the level of service or comfort of knowing that my choice may not be the preferred level of confidence......I should do nothing?

Bottom line:

Accumulation of all e-mails with Trek/Stirling & Waterloo specific to Trek Allant+ 9.9S as of 7/16/2020

12/12/19-Take delivery of new Trek Allant+ 9.9S
12/21/19-Battery loose, flying, replaced
1/12/20-Continue to distress over thumb shifting issues (stiffness)
3/7/20-Inquire re: Sram AXS,
4/15/20- Motor (?) grinding noises
4/23/20, no follow-up
4/29/20, still not indication of resolve
4/30/20, parts installed (new motor), no resolve, hub replacement?
5/8/20, breakdown of parts and labor requested, not supplied, hub noises, request for take-off parts, OEM box, items, etc., receipts for all,
5/8/20-Warranty extension request nothing supplied except verbal
5/8/20, notified of overcharge for SRAM costs, resolved after proof
5/8/20-re-requested all relevant corrected paperwork, billing, breakdowns, work orders, etc., service report and breakdown of all charges as per all previous correspondence as well as replies to ALL of my inquires as previously requested, still nothing as of 7/13/20
5/17/20, still no reply
5/22/20-And, still wanting a complete history of all service performed, items replaced, etc., for my records, and always moving forward for all work., tires/white walls defective
5/24/20-smartphone hub question not answered
5/24/20, review, follow-up!
So, additionally, I’m attempting to do due diligence with my ongoing, multiple requests so that in the event that additional problems do continue or do occur, I would appreciate your providing me with my initial request (and subsequent multiple requests thereafter) for all previous work in a breakdown that is normally associated with any work order other than a credit card receipt with a line item and amount.

1 Battery locking mechanism adjustment issue resulting in damage with replacement resolution 12/21/19
2 Grinding noise, motor replacement 4/15/20
3 Grinding noise, hub replacement 4/24/20
4 Shifting mechanism, cable and housing replacement 1/11/20
5 Warranty extension, is there any? 5/8/20
6 Broken band to hold Lumos blinker (I have receipt, forthcoming in a separate e-mail) 5/8/20
7 Exact breakdowns on SRAM AXS cost, snafu, additional items, etc. 4/23/20, 5/8/20, 5/17/20
8 Issue with fake whitewall stripe peeling on both tires 5/24/20
9 Bosch Smartphone Hub charging issue 5/24/20

I had asked on May 8th for a complete breakdown and again on May 17th. I’ve not received anything and do understand that your shop is busy as well as under a lot of stress due to Corona/Covid. Nonetheless, it would be appreciated that my continued request for complete and specific documentation be fulfilled so that I have all and complete records with documentation for all items which have occurred since the delivery of my new TREK ALLANT+9.9S on December 12, 2019

5/28/20-requested new wheel to replace front bent rim (my damage/accident)
5/31/20-notify of accident and pending drop off of bike for estimate/repair
6/10/20-status-follow-up, no response, multiple calls
6/12/20, still not communication
6/23/20-still long-winded communication to get answers
7/1/20- informed all of Velosure coverage
7/9/20-ongoing communications failure with Trek/Stirling as per status
7/9/20-re-request for numbers/status
7/11/20- ongoing communication to get answers and solutions
7/12/20-notify to break apart estimate for insurance and considered upgrades
7/13/20-Another long-winded e-mail to get bottom line numbers and answers, ongoing miscommunications as to estimate, time, costs, etc.
7/16/20-Bought an Allant+7S just to have until Allant+ 9.9S was repaired, LBS "Bosch Certified Tech" LIED and said that the firmware was updated, which it was not

So to this day, a lot of those things have not been addressed or resolved, hence Trek Corporate saving face and refunding me all previous purchases.

MY opinion (as referenced in a lot of other previous postings):
The Allant is a LEMON.
LOTS of issues.
Regardless of their claim that they have 1,000's in the field, they are prone to problems and have issues.
Just comb these forums, look, read, see.
It's not only me, there are others too.

Look, a LOT of people buy a bike, and it's over, done deal.
The LBS NEVER sees them again, ever, unless they is a major issue that the owner of the bike has no ability to resolve on their own.
But for the most part, most purchases and (my opinion, 90%) are never, ever seen again.
And ME, the Royal Pain in the ASS who has higher levels of needs and expectations keeps going back to take care of issues that should not even be (maybe the Allant was released too early without enough in the field testing)????

So, the end all?
I would LOVE to keep my loyalty to Trek. However, being a fussy and particular consumer, I do not feel comfortable that any of the local Trek Stores in my area can meet my needs or requirements, hence the dilemma as to how to move to the next chapter.

In your case it seems you and Trek are not working out well. If I were in your position I would be changing brands. I have never had issues like this and I'm on about my 6th. Trek. First E-Bike. I have never ever encountered anything like you describe. Your LBS should be the go to for perhaps a new bike. I would think he would have more sway with Trek than a customer would. You could certainly have a Lemon on your hands and not sure why Trek and/or the LBS just don't replace it. The original firmware I had for my +7s worked fine so updating it right now could have been skipped for a later date when someone can be located that is trained. My dealer only has 1 trained for Bosch equipped bikes at present. He said his shop is so busy because the bike business is crazy with Covid-19 other mechanics have not had time for the required 4 hours of training. I believe the training is online so your local bike shop should be able to become Bosch certified at some point quite easily.

 

[PDoz]

Sorry, several local bicycle shops don't have windows 10 , 64 bit capability and staff trained to bosch standards so you think this is " incompetence at its worst" ?

The bike was still perfectly functional, not dangerous to ride or faulty? Trek have accepted a return despite the only issue being the latest software wasn't installed? I'm impressed - because that bike sounds to be fit for purpose and not defective.

Am I correct that trek is a mid range product? Impressive product support from trek. I might consider them in future

 

[FlatSix911]

Look, a LOT of people buy a bike, and it's over, done deal.
The LBS NEVER sees them again, ever, unless they is a major issue that the owner of the bike has no ability to resolve on their own.
But for the most part, most purchases and (my opinion, 90%) are never, ever seen again.
And ME, the Royal Pain in the ASS who has higher levels of needs and expectations keeps going back to take care of issues that should not even be (maybe the Allant was released too early without enough in the field testing)????

So, the end all?
I would LOVE to keep my loyalty to Trek. However, being a fussy and particular consumer, I do not feel comfortable that any of the local Trek Stores in my area can meet my needs or requirements, hence the dilemma as to how to move to the next chapter.

Sorry to hear that you had a bad experience with Trek.

I would recommend looking at the other Big 3 brands with significant LBS market share for service and support ... Specialized, Cannondale, and Giant.

Vosper: Dealer count 2020

A deeper dive into the new dealer numbers reveals some interesting truths about brands, dealer populations and the industry's shifting balance of power.

www.bicycleretailer.com

 

[Sierratim]

We've dealt with our LBS for over 20 years because they stand behind whatever they sell. They were Trek. Some years ago they switched to Specialized. We did as well. Same no questions asked service, different brand. We're still happy and they're still busy. Just sayin '...

 

[GuruUno]

Agree. Trek is superior. But given the ongoing nightmare BS crap that I've had to endure from incompetence of their lackluster service (the LBS, not Trek), I made the choice to say goodbye. Also, Trek corporate suggested that it might be time to "part ways", as I'm too demanding and needy.
So, I'd buy a Trek in a heartbeat, but the problem is to find a competent dealer.
After spending a few hours in various sub-forums on these discussion groups it's obvious that Trek stands out from the rest for their dealer network support where others fail miserably.
But again, the point here is the multitude of crap, and when offered to say goodbye, it was an easy decision.
Now the hard part, to find something else.
That is not to be an easy task.
And yes, the dealer is incompetent. I lived it, so my 1st hand real life experience is that. Real. And only I can convey my dissatisfaction.
It just never, ever, ever ended, and the straw that broke the camels back was all it took.