Would like to go faster!
- Thread starter Scott1234
- Start date
You could definitely do that.. You would need a new battery pack and probably a new controller... That will cost more than your bike is worth.. Stick with the 24v, or else just buy a new ebike or ebike kit, 48v (all new electrical components).
JRA
Well-Known Member
In reading this thread it is quite apparent that with the stock Bafang being wound for torque as it is that getting it to go faster than it's parameters set by Rad, which has to be conscious of the legal requirements for sale here. While I can appreciate the need for speed that some are after and all the options mentioned here like displays, controllers swaps etc. are not going to make the motor any faster due to this limitation.
The loss in efficiency going to the upper end of a motors output is a big factor here. The faster you go the further you won't. As the stock battery appears to be an 11.46ah and the fact that it is probably on the lower end of the mAh spectrum per cell and the battery being the heart of an eBike there are limitations there also in regards to squeezing the most speed available out of the bikes. At 550wh at the 30wh/mi I would nominally predict that going the extra mph's consistently would only provide a range of 18-20 miles at best. In other words the key to having the most motor power is the battery that will supply that. And going to 52v is one way as suggested but while that adds some watt hours to the equation suggesting more range it is my experience as a 52v user that also has a 48v system on similar bikes that both are about as efficient as the other range wise with a slight nod on the fresh off the charge oomph you get with the 52v.
Here is a spread sheet I worked out that illustrates what the emerging 21700 cells can provide in comparison to the 18650 cells currently in use on the Rad lineup and others in the 1500-$2000 price range.
This is based on a 15ah rating but still provides the necessary info on how a better cell can aid in the overall performance of a battery, which in turn translates into better overall performance of the motor. A higher discharge rate will allow for more peak power but also if used conservatively will draw less power creating more range per charge. Also the higher charge rate possible would mean with the right charger the option to charge at the highest rate of 7A which would bring a battery at 20% charge to an 85% charge over a long lunch break. The last 15% would take longer as proper charge cycling demands that the last amount be fed in more slowly. But even still as it is recommended for best battery life to only charge to 85% and the fact that is still bringing the battery up to over 12ah's a quick charge now and then is well within the range of proper battery management using the new cell structure.
At this time the availability of such a battery as described in the second column is just figures on the screen. In order to go to the new battery, if developed, however would be a simple as matching the lead connectors and plugging it in to your Rad bike. This is made easy by the open source nature that Rad subscribes to as there are no proprietary communications within the BMS/conrtoller interface such as found on the big manufacturers 36v models. Due to this they are subject to their systems batteries only.
Going forward the availability of such a battery, given that you are happy with the bike overall and that batteries do degrade over time, if you are considering performance upgrades a strong battery seems to be the most simple way to achieve performance. A caveat here that the battery in question would certainly cost more than a stock one from Rad and the charger necessary to achieve maximum charge rate is also going to add cost. The way I see it folks that have Rad's have gotten them as they represent a price point that at the entry level is hard to beat, especially as they are on top of their customer relations it seems that other similar spin offs seem to lack.
So are the Rad bikes just a starter bike that once you have had a good taste of what an eBike can do for you and you want something more powerful you have to look elsewhere, as in a new bike purchase, or does the possibility of a battery upgrade alone that would enhance your current bikes performance and range with the possibility of decreased charge times and the fact that you are perfectly happy with the bike itself make sense? Time will tell I guess.
The loss in efficiency going to the upper end of a motors output is a big factor here. The faster you go the further you won't. As the stock battery appears to be an 11.46ah and the fact that it is probably on the lower end of the mAh spectrum per cell and the battery being the heart of an eBike there are limitations there also in regards to squeezing the most speed available out of the bikes. At 550wh at the 30wh/mi I would nominally predict that going the extra mph's consistently would only provide a range of 18-20 miles at best. In other words the key to having the most motor power is the battery that will supply that. And going to 52v is one way as suggested but while that adds some watt hours to the equation suggesting more range it is my experience as a 52v user that also has a 48v system on similar bikes that both are about as efficient as the other range wise with a slight nod on the fresh off the charge oomph you get with the 52v.
Here is a spread sheet I worked out that illustrates what the emerging 21700 cells can provide in comparison to the 18650 cells currently in use on the Rad lineup and others in the 1500-$2000 price range.
This is based on a 15ah rating but still provides the necessary info on how a better cell can aid in the overall performance of a battery, which in turn translates into better overall performance of the motor. A higher discharge rate will allow for more peak power but also if used conservatively will draw less power creating more range per charge. Also the higher charge rate possible would mean with the right charger the option to charge at the highest rate of 7A which would bring a battery at 20% charge to an 85% charge over a long lunch break. The last 15% would take longer as proper charge cycling demands that the last amount be fed in more slowly. But even still as it is recommended for best battery life to only charge to 85% and the fact that is still bringing the battery up to over 12ah's a quick charge now and then is well within the range of proper battery management using the new cell structure.
At this time the availability of such a battery as described in the second column is just figures on the screen. In order to go to the new battery, if developed, however would be a simple as matching the lead connectors and plugging it in to your Rad bike. This is made easy by the open source nature that Rad subscribes to as there are no proprietary communications within the BMS/conrtoller interface such as found on the big manufacturers 36v models. Due to this they are subject to their systems batteries only.
Going forward the availability of such a battery, given that you are happy with the bike overall and that batteries do degrade over time, if you are considering performance upgrades a strong battery seems to be the most simple way to achieve performance. A caveat here that the battery in question would certainly cost more than a stock one from Rad and the charger necessary to achieve maximum charge rate is also going to add cost. The way I see it folks that have Rad's have gotten them as they represent a price point that at the entry level is hard to beat, especially as they are on top of their customer relations it seems that other similar spin offs seem to lack.
So are the Rad bikes just a starter bike that once you have had a good taste of what an eBike can do for you and you want something more powerful you have to look elsewhere, as in a new bike purchase, or does the possibility of a battery upgrade alone that would enhance your current bikes performance and range with the possibility of decreased charge times and the fact that you are perfectly happy with the bike itself make sense? Time will tell I guess.
AHicks
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
I just bought a Rad City, and not real happy with the amount of control afforded by the SW900 display and the limitations imposed by that display. As a very avid DIY'er by nature, this prompted some investigating. Note I have built a couple of e-bike conversions previously and both were based on the KT components (by chance).
Regarding the Rad bikes, my findings to date, is that the LCD3 display must be used with a KT series motor controller. What that means to Rad owners, is at minimum, the controller will need to be changed, and every connection at the controller will need to be redone to accomodate the new controller. This includes connections from the motor to the controller, the crank speed sensor, connections leading to the display, and on and on. This amounts to a pretty good sized project even for somebody that likes doing this sort of thing.
If I have this right, Sonders owners got together and generated enough interest where somebody came out with a kit that would allow plug and play install of a LCD3 display and KT series controller - without forcing a major re-wire of the bike's systems. This at a very attractive price. Maybe someday there will be enough interest among Rad owners where somebody will come up with something like this.
Personally, my interest lies in the fact that with the KT components (display and controller), I'll have control over the whole arrangement using an LCD3 display, plus cruise control. It's not about speed here. I'm fine with 20mph, way more interest in a robust control system that I can set up (my way) and forget. I decided that if I'm going to get my hands dirty, I might as well just do the whole thing my way, which is going to include not just the display and controller, but also a much more powerful 1500w hub motor as well. If ordered as an e-bike conversion kit (amazon or e-bay), all components come with matching plugs, making for a much simpler install as compared to modifying Rad's wiring harness to accept the KT LCD3 and KT series controller I'm after. So that's what I've done....
I'm re-building a Rad City my way, using the bicycle components and battery over again. All the Rad electrical and electronics, including the motor itself, are being replaced with a very carefully chosen "e-bike conversion kit". Even while adding the price of the $350. "kit" to the price of the stock City, I feel pretty comfortable with the value of the bike. It looks great on paper. I'll have a real world impression of the conversion in a week or 2 after the parts arrive and are installed. Going with an 11 tooth freewheel too, so these old legs can keep up with a bike going 15mph.....
Regarding the Rad bikes, my findings to date, is that the LCD3 display must be used with a KT series motor controller. What that means to Rad owners, is at minimum, the controller will need to be changed, and every connection at the controller will need to be redone to accomodate the new controller. This includes connections from the motor to the controller, the crank speed sensor, connections leading to the display, and on and on. This amounts to a pretty good sized project even for somebody that likes doing this sort of thing.
If I have this right, Sonders owners got together and generated enough interest where somebody came out with a kit that would allow plug and play install of a LCD3 display and KT series controller - without forcing a major re-wire of the bike's systems. This at a very attractive price. Maybe someday there will be enough interest among Rad owners where somebody will come up with something like this.
Personally, my interest lies in the fact that with the KT components (display and controller), I'll have control over the whole arrangement using an LCD3 display, plus cruise control. It's not about speed here. I'm fine with 20mph, way more interest in a robust control system that I can set up (my way) and forget. I decided that if I'm going to get my hands dirty, I might as well just do the whole thing my way, which is going to include not just the display and controller, but also a much more powerful 1500w hub motor as well. If ordered as an e-bike conversion kit (amazon or e-bay), all components come with matching plugs, making for a much simpler install as compared to modifying Rad's wiring harness to accept the KT LCD3 and KT series controller I'm after. So that's what I've done....
I'm re-building a Rad City my way, using the bicycle components and battery over again. All the Rad electrical and electronics, including the motor itself, are being replaced with a very carefully chosen "e-bike conversion kit". Even while adding the price of the $350. "kit" to the price of the stock City, I feel pretty comfortable with the value of the bike. It looks great on paper. I'll have a real world impression of the conversion in a week or 2 after the parts arrive and are installed. Going with an 11 tooth freewheel too, so these old legs can keep up with a bike going 15mph.....
ebikenewbie
New Member
Im running the voltbike with the same bafang motor. In my research on Electricbikereview.com I came across a write up on the m2s allterrain 750. This bike is essentially identical to the voltbike with the same display controller and a bafang 750 motor. They are claiming speeds upto 28 miles per hour on throttle only in what they call Offroad mode.
Driving this bike to a top throttle only speed of 20 mph (or 28+ mph in Off Road Mode) and pedal assist speed of 28 mph (or 33+ mph in Off Road Mode) is a Bafang 750 watt geared hub motor in the rear wheel with 80 Newton meters of torque.
However, M2S claims the motor is specially geared and built just for them.
this is the entire write up. https://electricbikereview.com/m2s-bikes/all-terrain-r750/
one thing I know for certain all these bikes are coming out of china in bulk just with different branding but basically the same bike. Is M2S really having a Bafang 750 hub motor specially built just for them? I would imagine the costs would skyrocket.
I really believe those speeds are achievable for everyone with that same setup, just locked up in the software in the controller.
Just my 2Cents
Driving this bike to a top throttle only speed of 20 mph (or 28+ mph in Off Road Mode) and pedal assist speed of 28 mph (or 33+ mph in Off Road Mode) is a Bafang 750 watt geared hub motor in the rear wheel with 80 Newton meters of torque.
However, M2S claims the motor is specially geared and built just for them.
this is the entire write up. https://electricbikereview.com/m2s-bikes/all-terrain-r750/
one thing I know for certain all these bikes are coming out of china in bulk just with different branding but basically the same bike. Is M2S really having a Bafang 750 hub motor specially built just for them? I would imagine the costs would skyrocket.
I really believe those speeds are achievable for everyone with that same setup, just locked up in the software in the controller.
Just my 2Cents
Calicoskies
Active Member
The motor comes in two windings one for torque and one for speed, not really a special design. I have Yukon so know the controller but pretty sure that M2S is using the same one. Yukon would be a little less but yes if we could get amps higher we would have a little more performance.
rockstarinlife
New Member
Did anyone else try this yet? In the videos comments people saw it worked to raise the limit to 25mph on the radrover.
Yes, I tested it and it works on my rover and step-thru.
AHicks
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
Here's a link to comments regarding final product - after installing the aftermarket e-bike kit. I thought they might be located easier with a stand alone topic. Though some of the questions posted earlier in this string are starting to get pretty old, worthy of mention likely, is that the 2018 Rad battery is capable of supplying 1600 watts, for a short period anyway. I'm not intending to see how long, or how hot it gets doing that for any kind of extended period....
https://electricbikereview.com/foru...-w-1500w-dd-hub-and-11-tooth-freewheel.24692/
Similar threads
