Worst possible MTB drivetrain brutality

Air2air

Air2air

Member
Region
USA
What a great forum, and thanks to all of you for sharing your knowledge. I've read every drivetrain thread on the forum but still don't see a clear solution:

Every 2 weeks: Replace 9-11sp. cassette and chain.
- Tried every combination of riveted/joined cog assemblies, cheap heavy steel etc.
- Considering opening a Museum of Potato Chip-shaped Cogs

Every 4 weeks: Replace freehub pawls, splines or body.
- Trying various SRAM, Shimano

Every 2/4 months: Replace Ratchet ring, requiring wheel re-lace.
- DT Swiss M-1900 spline.

These glorious achievements are nothing new to you folks, and are courtesy of:

- Throttle only
- Ludicrous V1 on BBSHD
- 52v backpack
- Chainline very good.
- 29er full-susp.

Riding style:

- Like a 250cc trials motorcycle.
- Hi torque, slow on steep single trails. Vertical. Many uphill stop/starts.
- Careful shifting & throttle. Always start in first gear.
- Never faster than 25.
- Ghost pedaling for hikers, added dramatic breathing for hikers with dual poles and Birkenstocks.

So what to do, what to do......

Plan A:
Grin AWD
Pros: Does away with the entire damn drivetrain; front and rear wheel drive also.
Cons: Doubles unsprung weight from 9 to 18 lbs - But is that an actual problem?
Grin All Axle Hub Motor

Plan B:
IGH and Gates belt
From everything I've read, I'll simply destroy all the IGH's unless you have a strong opinion otherwise...?

Plan C:
Get a damn Sur-Ron
I will get busted in ten minutes by the hikers, I live in Norcal.
 
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Sounds like you should buy stock in the parts co!

I would contact Luna and see if the power delivery can be smoothed out. Check the hall sensors. Another optional I've seen is used with a grin baserunner controller is what they call electric freewheel. It keeps the drivetrain loaded (small wattage) so the start/stop doesn't hammer the drive train.
 
Air2air said:
What a great forum, and thanks to all of you for sharing your knowledge. I've read every drivetrain thread on the forum but still don't see a clear solution:

Every 2 weeks: Replace 9-11sp. cassette and chain.
- Tried every combination of riveted/joined cog assemblies, cheap heavy steel etc.
- Considering opening a Museum of Potato Chip-shaped Cogs

Every 4 weeks: Replace freehub pawls, splines or body.
- Trying various SRAM, Shimano

Every 2/4 months: Replace Ratchet ring, requiring wheel re-lace.
- DT Swiss M-1900 spline.

These glorious achievements are nothing new to you folks, and are courtesy of:

- Throttle only
- Ludicrous V1 on BBSHD
- 52v backpack
- Chainline very good.
- 29er full-susp.

Riding style:

- Like a 250cc trials motorcycle.
- Hi torque, slow on steep single trails. Vertical. Many uphill stop/starts.
- Careful shifting & throttle. Always start in first gear.
- Never faster than 25.
- Ghost pedaling for hikers, added dramatic breathing for hikers with dual poles and Birkenstocks.

So what to do, what to do......

Plan A:
Grin AWD
Pros: Does away with the entire damn drivetrain; front and rear wheel drive also.
Cons: Doubles unsprung weight from 9 to 18 lbs - But is that an actual problem?
Grin All Axle Hub Motor

Plan B:
IGH and Gates belt
From everything I've read, I'll simply destroy all the IGH's unless you have a strong opinion otherwise...?

Plan C:
Get a damn Sur-Ron
I will get busted in ten minutes by the hikers, I live in Norcal.
Click to expand...
I have no experience with a high powered bike like that but since you don't need multiple gears for ghost pedaling why not use a fixie rear hub with disc mount and a single speed chain? The Bafang will still provide the freewheel function.

www.paulcomp.com

Fixed Disk Word

We kept getting requests, so we brought back the fixed-gear version of our Disk WORD hub. This unicorn enables the fixed-gear conversion of bikes with 135mm or 142mm rear spacing. It’s machin…
www.paulcomp.com
 
If you are a disabled person and want to ride an electric motorcycle use a motorcycle drivetrain. Short of that use an extra-wide half link chain to a single speed (not fixie) freewheel. Although the bike messenger clipped in fixie idea would be more fun to watch. This is a case example that bike parts are not compatible with motorcycle riding. It is so funny to see new bikes that are over powered being marketed to people who do not know better. I ditched Bafangs and throttles years ago because they are not much fun after the initial thrill and they destroy drivetrains. It is a self-correcting problem like the flesh eating STD in the UK, the problem just goes away all by itself.
 
Fatknee said:
Sounds like you should buy stock in the parts co!

I would contact Luna and see if the power delivery can be smoothed out. Check the hall sensors. Another optional I've seen is used with a grin baserunner controller is what they call electric freewheel. It keeps the drivetrain loaded (small wattage) so the start/stop doesn't hammer the drive train.
Click to expand...
Fatknee thank you, I appear to be joining the masses moving from Luna to Grin. You're right on the money about 'throttle ramp' on the Baserunner. Yeah I see a baserunner in my future for sure.
 
Air2air said:
What a great forum, and thanks to all of you for sharing your knowledge. I've read every drivetrain thread on the forum but still don't see a clear solution:

Every 2 weeks: Replace 9-11sp. cassette and chain.
- Tried every combination of riveted/joined cog assemblies, cheap heavy steel etc.
- Considering opening a Museum of Potato Chip-shaped Cogs

Every 4 weeks: Replace freehub pawls, splines or body.
- Trying various SRAM, Shimano

Every 2/4 months: Replace Ratchet ring, requiring wheel re-lace.
- DT Swiss M-1900 spline.

These glorious achievements are nothing new to you folks, and are courtesy of:

- Throttle only
- Ludicrous V1 on BBSHD
- 52v backpack
- Chainline very good.
- 29er full-susp.

Riding style:

- Like a 250cc trials motorcycle.
- Hi torque, slow on steep single trails. Vertical. Many uphill stop/starts.
- Careful shifting & throttle. Always start in first gear.
- Never faster than 25.
- Ghost pedaling for hikers, added dramatic breathing for hikers with dual poles and Birkenstocks.

So what to do, what to do......

Plan A:
Grin AWD
Pros: Does away with the entire damn drivetrain; front and rear wheel drive also.
Cons: Doubles unsprung weight from 9 to 18 lbs - But is that an actual problem?
Grin All Axle Hub Motor

Plan B:
IGH and Gates belt
From everything I've read, I'll simply destroy all the IGH's unless you have a strong opinion otherwise...?

Plan C:
Get a damn Sur-Ron
I will get busted in ten minutes by the hikers, I live in Norcal.
Click to expand...
Larger chainring? 9 spd too many, use 7.?
 
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ruffruff said:
I'm going to be the asshat here...you could pedal more and throttle less? Jacking all that power through your drivetrain without pedaling is gonna eat stuff for lunch. Like you are finding out.
AND of course, there is no free lunch!
Click to expand...
rich c said:
I agree with ruffruff. If you really want to ride a dirt bike, ride one. If you want to ride a mtb, ride it like a bicycle.
Click to expand...

Ruff and rich you guys are right of course. I ride at an open spaces park just a few minutes from my house that keeps me on a 'bike'. I'm leaning heavily towards Grin AWD which eliminates having my drivetrain parks strewn over the single track.
 
EMGX said:
I have no experience with a high powered bike like that but since you don't need multiple gears for ghost pedaling why not use a fixie rear hub with disc mount and a single speed chain? The Bafang will still provide the freewheel function.

www.paulcomp.com

Fixed Disk Word

We kept getting requests, so we brought back the fixed-gear version of our Disk WORD hub. This unicorn enables the fixed-gear conversion of bikes with 135mm or 142mm rear spacing. It’s machin…
www.paulcomp.com
Click to expand...
That's a real interesting idea EMGX.... might just try that with a Gates belt!
 
PedalUma said:
If you are a disabled person and want to ride an electric motorcycle use a motorcycle drivetrain. Short of that use an extra-wide half link chain to a single speed (not fixie) freewheel. Although the bike messenger clipped in fixie idea would be more fun to watch. This is a case example that bike parts are not compatible with motorcycle riding. It is so funny to see new bikes that are over powered being marketed to people who do not know better. I ditched Bafangs and throttles years ago because they are not much fun after the initial thrill and they destroy drivetrains. It is a self-correcting problem like the flesh eating STD in the UK, the problem just goes away all by itself.
Click to expand...
PedalUma OK so you agree with EMGX's single speed idea. Now I'm wondering about the three speed Sturmey, with the second speed an indestructible 1:1 as I understand.
 
john peck said:
Larger chainring? 9 spd too many, use 7.?
Click to expand...
Thx John, yeah I've rebuilt a few dozen cassettes with varying numbers of cogs and spacers. The chainring is a Luna Eclipse 30.

From others' comments here like PedalUma it's sounding like there is no bike hardware that will work as the last couple years walking home have shown.

In my defense of throttle-only my interest is like a trials motorcycle; very steep verticals.

Guessing the hardcore MTB riders here have historically had no interest in hubs, same as me. But the drivetrain-free Grin AWD is pulling me in, with the only concern being the unsprung weight doubling from 9 to 18lbs. Does anyone see that as a really *big* problem?
 
I've run the same power as a Ludi on a FS enduro and had none of these problems. That has a lot to do with my pedaling. I also just acquired my 6th BBSHD. 5 builds so far and one of them is now a hard core overland/bikepacking config. So far, no issues. But again I mostly pedal. With that said I do love me some throttle and I'm not shy about using it. With discretion.

When you said "hi torque, slow speed on steep single trails" I cringed. The thread title is right on the money. You have decided to do the most damage possible to your drivetrain.

Why haven't you invested in a programmer ad smoothed the throttle out yourself? Just because its a Ludi doesn't mean you can't have at it just like everyone else with a BBSHD does. The only difference is your motor amp settings are doubled so when it says '25' do NOT increase it to 30. 25 is the max.

Pretty sure the DT 1900 Spline is a much lesser strength wheel than the 350 Hybrid ratchet. I actually replaced my 1900 Spline rear wheel with a 350 Hybrid hub with steel Shimano body. This gives me a solid 24T ratchet mech and everything is beefed up on every part of the hub. I used a 32H FR560 downhill rim, Alpine spokes and brass nipples. Your 1900 wheel is 28H? More is better. My bike is a 29er. The steel DT bodies have never let me down. Neither have the 24T (or for that matter the 18T) ratchets.

Surly and WolfTooth make steel front chainrings. Maybe look into one?

Beyond that, a 2wd approach doesn't have to be a Grin up front unless you have to go with a thru axle. 2WD to be done right needs twin throttles, bear in mind. ESPECIALLY on trails where you really REALLY want to dial front motor power way down. Picture hitting a root, popping up and the front wheel is now at an angle. Wheel comes back down and Instant Faceplant.

I took this pic at breakfast this morning. Concrete slab is a park bench. Just me and the gulls and a couple of otters. Riding it to Laguna Seca here in a bit. This bike is one of my 2wd builds and it will climb *anything*, 160Nm 30a BBSHD in back, 80Nm G060 w/35a controller in front. 25ah Samsung 25R pack w/big continuous BMS limit.


PXL_20211027_150857720.jpg


But you need to build it right. And since you want to ride a motorcycle with bicycle parts, either make a few changes to lower your bill, or get used to paying it because as it is, you can't get there from here.

talesontwowheels.com

Dual Motor AWD Electric Bikes (the good and bad)

I like to build top-quality-component ebikes from the frame up. Quite a few of them are dual motor or AWD or 2WD or whatever you want to call them. Why would you build an AWD ebike?
talesontwowheels.com talesontwowheels.com
 
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oh and also: SRAM EX-1 only allows 1 shift per click and is meant for mid drives. The cluster that goes with it is made of tool steel. I have that whole group on my enduro and its overkill for me. For you... maybe its what you need.
 
m@Robertson said:
oh and also: SRAM EX-1 only allows 1 shift per click and is meant for mid drives. The cluster that goes with it is made of tool steel. I have that whole group on my enduro and its overkill for me. For you... maybe its what you need.
Click to expand...
m@Robinson thanks for a great post ... I also read your talesontwowheels piece via Fatknee. Are you going to Velocity Invitational?

BTW I called Holly to get a policy for my 1962 Mini but it didn't qualify for you guys, have to stick with Hagerty, oh well :)
 
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Air2air said:
Thx John, yeah I've rebuilt a few dozen cassettes with varying numbers of cogs and spacers. The chainring is a Luna Eclipse 30.

From others' comments here like PedalUma it's sounding like there is no bike hardware that will work as the last couple years walking home have shown.

In my defense of throttle-only my interest is like a trials motorcycle; very steep verticals.

Guessing the hardcore MTB riders here have historically had no interest in hubs, same as me. But the drivetrain-free Grin AWD is pulling me in, with the only concern being the unsprung weight doubling from 9 to 18lbs. Does anyone see that as a really *big* problem?
Click to expand...
My beef with cassettes is they don´t last as long & wear much faster than freewheels.
 
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