Why did you buy a Riese & Müller?

[Alaskan]

The SuperDelight is my 3rd e-bike. It was a 70th birthday splurge. Previous bikes, Yubo El Boda Boda with Bionic hub motor, Haibike Trekking with Yahama drive. This Aril I added a Specialized Turbo Vado SL 5.0. The SuperDelight seemed soooo expensive that I was skeptical but I had so much fun riding the Haibike that I knew I wanted a mid drive and my low back wanted full suspension. There are no dealers near us but fortunately a dealer in the next state over brought some bikes to town for road tests. I was impressed. We rode all three iterations of the SuperDelight and also Homage and ended up with one each GT HS SuperDelight for me and GT HS dual battery Homage for my wife. Our hope was that we would do some multi day tours or longer trips and so the battery capacity was desirable. I have a little over 3000 miles on the SD as of today and have had it since May of 2020. I still love the bike but see it in a different light since adding the Vado SL to the stable. These days I ride the Vado SL almost exclusively unless I am really tired or going to the grocery store. About year ago I fell on the SD and ended up with some broken ribs, collar bone and a collapsed lung. Rightly or wrongly I felt like the weight of the SD contributed to the incident. It certainly contributes to some of the aggravations of owning the bike but also lends a solid feel. The Specialized Vado SL weighs about half what the SD does and I have found that if I want to ride a bike, that feels responsive and nimble it is always my pick. Surprisingly the range of the two bikes turns out to be nearly identical despite the Vado having only about 1/3 the battery capacity. Lighter weight, more rider contribution and less powerful motor make up for the difference. My wife has suggested that I sell the SD since I ride it so much less now but I think there is still a clear place for it in my .cycling practices. Today I took it on a 20 mile ride with a stop at the grocery store. It was just right. I didn't work as hard as if I had taken the Vado but the bike did what it seems to me it was designed to do, replace a car trip. Now that is how I think of the SD. If I am commuting, heading to the store, beer run or just want to take it easy its the SD. If I want to ride, work up a sweat, clock some miles its the Vado. Im lucky to have the option and i think that the SD will continue to be part of the mix.

My experience and landing spot as well. 2018 dual battery delite mountain for running errands, hauling a trailer and automobile replacement type rides and Cannondale Topstone Neo 3 at less than half the weight with a Bosch Performance speed motor and 500 watt battery for group rides with my roady friends or solo exercise riding or fun rides in general. Lucky to be able to afford choices.

 

[webcurl]

It has been a long time since I've wrestled with a decision for a purchase. A well equipped Delite costs more than a new BMW F750 GS motorcycle.

The BMW motorcycle has a lot of tried and tested design & technology within, the industry for such has been decades in the making, there's even a racing industry that pushes the technology & design knowledge further.
The ebike industry in comparison is thousands of kilometers apart, however R&M is probably the closest you'll relatively get an ebike to being like that motorcycle in terms of geometry, design, tech, etc. and because the industry is relatively new, well, you pay to be a co-pioneer.
They're not perfect - neither is the BMW, but R&M try very hard to be and are damn close.
R&M seem like they have been making ebikes from the ground up for decades compared to just yesterday for many other ebike makers.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

but this is a lot of money. This is like 2-3 times the price of a Chinese ebike with a Bafang motor and chain drive. This is the same price as a Honda motorcycle...

Technically speaking, Specialized Turbo Vado 4.0 + Turbo Vado SL 4.0 can be bought together at a price equal to a high end R&M

 

[RMK!]

This thread is on an interesting tangent. I owned 5 motorcycles in my 20's all BMW (twins) and sold my Specialized Turbo Creo last year. I suppose the German engineering and assembly process of the BMW brand was largely responsible for the brands popularity. They were strong and easily maintained motorcycles. The Specialized bike was well designed and well made (Taiwan?) but it was designed for the traditional cyclist who wanted to put a toe in the water of the Ebike world without selling his (or her) soul to the devil. I loved the Specialized bikes great sports car handling on smooth surfaces but it was an absolute misery on long rides up to 50 miles on non-pristine surfaces. The batteries (I had the "Range Extender") would not last 50 miles unless I rode in Eco mode. At my age and corresponding cycling fitness level, that was a severe limitation and I suspect the other Specialized bikes are plagued by the same range anxiety inducing power train.

My 2019 R&M Delite GX extreme Rohloff HS (chain drive) with dual Bosh 500W batteries and Bosch Performance Line Speed (Gen2) motor allows me to go over 100+ miles in Tour mode and 90+ miles in Sport mode. Even the seldom used Turbo mode could take me 70+ miles on a full charge. More importantly for me, I can make long rides on varying terrain and road/trail surfaces in relative comfort due to it's full suspension (plus dropper post).

I was lucky to get my Delite in June of this year for a great price as it was a floor model from a local dealer. After over 2K miles of riding this bike with it's amazing Rohloff E14 IGH and all of the other well mated components, I would happily pay MSLP for this bike but I'm thrilled I didn't have to.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

This thread is on an interesting tangent. I owned 5 motorcycles in my 20's all BMW (twins) and sold my Specialized Turbo Creo last year. I suppose the German engineering and assembly process of the BMW brand was largely responsible for the brands popularity. They were strong and easily maintained motorcycles. The Specialized bike was well designed and well made (Taiwan?) but it was designed for the traditional cyclist who wanted to put a toe in the water of the Ebike world without selling his (or her) soul to the devil. I loved the Specialized bikes great sports car handling on smooth surfaces but it was an absolute misery on long rides up to 50 miles on non-pristine surfaces. The batteries (I had the "Range Extender") would not last 50 miles unless I rode in Eco mode. At my age and corresponding cycling fitness level, that was a severe limitation and I suspect the other Specialized bikes are plagued by the same range anxiety inducing power train.

It works the other way for most of SL owners. First they buy a full power e-bike, and then they start dreaming of something lightweight that would feel like a bike and could be easily carried in one hand.

Having said the above, I would not buy any heavy R&M nowadays even if I had money to burn.

 

[TimJohn]

I bought the Multicharger Mixte that does exactly what I want in an ebike. The Vario works for me but I wish the handle bar control had distinctive steps and it takes a little getting use to. The belt drive is a real positive. The bike is super stable and very capable of carrying a load when I go grocery shopping. Really don't care about how heavy it is. Actually this is one of the positive features because I mounted a "Pet Gear" on the rear rack for my 24 lb dog and installed the Tern Cargo bags as well. It upright position works for me and sometimes when I am storming down a hill at 40 km/hr, it rides straight and true. This can replace my car if I wasn't so paranoid of parking it. Draw backs...expensive...uhmm. Can't think of any really.

 

[JimAndArrow]

I have a few bikes and had ridden a few different cargo bikes over the years but even though I was sold on the concept, none of the bikes I rode had really clicked for me.

I got a service dog in May (or to be more precise, he finally came home to me after two years of training), and have been pedaling him around since then alternating running alongside, which he prefers, or in a trailer, but really wanted to be able to take longer rides with him, and trailering an 85lb dog (adding 120 lbs and the rolling resistance of two more wheels) up hills around here was enough to make me re-examine cargo bike options with assist.

I was sold when I went to Propel and took a demo ride on the Load 75 with my dog on board - the assist was seamless, the various parts of the bike seemed well integrated. the suspension (which is atypical on a cargo bike) made a significant difference in ride comfort for both me and, I believe, my dog, as compared to other box bikes I’d ridden, and while I was not hugely enamored of the Enviolo on the demo bike (might just take a little adjustment time), I already have two Rohloff bikes and the availability of the Rohloff + Gates setup sealed the deal. The Load 75 is, as best I can tell, simply the state of the art in cargo bikes.

Riese & Muller as a boutique manufacturer also seem to have a good relationship with Propel and I’m local to them so I believe I should have good support - and the availability of strong local support for a bike at this level of investment was important to me.

 

[webcurl]

This can replace my car if I wasn't so paranoid of parking it.

Ha, i hear you!
If only Bosch, being a multi-national could establish a multi-national GPS tracking solution to their motors!

 

[webcurl]

This would be a different discussion if many more ebike makers had MANY more models with Gates CDX & IGH's!

 

[JimAndArrow]

This would be a different discussion if many more ebike makers had MANY more models with Gates CDX & IGH's!

You definitely can actually get other front box/platform cargo bikes with Gates+IGH combos, esp. if you're ok with the Enviolo and don't insist on the wider range of the Rohloff (heck, one of my other Rohloff bikes actually has a Schlumpf drive too for when I have a tail wind ).

I actually considered the Triobike Cargo Big because of the large platform size, likewise for the Urban Arrow Cargo XL - both of which can be had with IGH+ Gates - and I've also ridden a Bullitt, which I bet Splendid would build up for you with a Gates/Rohloff combo. But among other things, the Load 75 is the only one I've seen (and certainly the only one I've ridden) with full suspension, which was a pretty big difference, and I actually like the rails around the box by comparison to the platform designs as well. For my dog I don't really need a big box with plastic sides, the rails on the Load provide the right level of physical and visual barrier for him to ride inside without the need for them and allow him to get in and out easily and to watch the scenery as we ride even if he's laying down. AFAIC, the Load was just a winning combo, hands down, for someone wanting to ride with a dog.

 

[TimJohn]

That depends on how big of a dog you have I guess.

 

[JimAndArrow]

That depends on how big of a dog you have I guess.

Indeed it does. I don’t think my 85 lb. Labrador Retriever would quite fit in there but I’m guessing he’d be willing to try!

 

[billmeek]

Indeed it does. I don’t think my 85 lb. Labrador Retriever would quite fit in there but I’m guessing he’d be willing to try!

You'd be surprised at how little space a dog requires to ride on 2 wheels.

 

[JimAndArrow]

LOL, too true!

I’ve seen a few of these guys around - my current ride is a BMW C650GT and I Investigated a dog seat for it but I’m actually thinking of swapping it for a Ural. The main thing that has kept me from it so far is actually the noise, not wanting to subject Arrow to that level of sound from the exhaust for long periods - if the electric Ural was out, we’d almost certainly have one already…