Why did the EU choose 250W?

MartsEbike said:
I know you have a derestricted bike too ;)
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It belongs to my brother now. He typically rides with the limiter on because when he rides past the limiter, Trance E+ uses no power from the battery (the motor is off). It made possible for him to ride for 126 km on a single 625 Wh battery, and there was plenty of juice there after the ride. (I wonder when you rode for 75+ miles the last time, if ever). He even swapped his Trance E+ for traditional Haibike Land bike with a girl who was together with us, so both rode the swapped bikes for 30 km of that trip. Both have good legs, I don't.

My third e-bike was never restricted by factory but you can do that with a sequence of keys on the remote. Unrestricted, that e-bike reaches 30 km/h on the flat. (It is a 250 true W hub-drive motor e-bike).

My fourth e-bike (Vado SL) can be derestricted. I wonder why should I do it? To lose the improbable range of that e-bike?!
 
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jabberwocky said:
I'd be willing to bet that all of those are extremely conservative ratings is my point. Legally they need to be 250w so thats what the spec sheet says, but based on things like advertised torque and how quickly they can burn through battery wattage I'm pretty sure that they can do way more than 250w nominal.
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No, jabber. The data look honest. BLEvo tells me how many Watts are drawn from the battery, and I maxed the motor out just to check. The power drawn from the battery was 666 W. Given rated peak power of 520W it gives the motor efficiency of 78%, and that's about right.
 
Stefan Mikes said:
No, jabber. The data look honest. BLEvo tells me how many Watts are drawn from the battery, and I maxed the motor out just to check. The power drawn from the battery was 666 W. Given rated peak power of 520W it gives the motor efficiency of 78%, and that's about right.
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Well, I buy that. I just think that 520w is probably closer to the realistic continuous power than 250w is. :)
 
jabberwocky said:
Well, I buy that. I just think that 520w is probably closer to the realistic continuous power than 250w is. :)
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Yes but Brose and Yamaha have never hidden those facts :)
P.S. Continuous means at least 30 minutes of uninterrupted ride. The max ride time in full Turbo mode I made without stopping the bike for motor cooling was 21 minutes.
 
Stefan Mikes said:
The first modern e-MTB ever was conceived in Switzerland for an American company by name Specialized :)
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Are you sure about that, Stefan?

Haibike claims that their 2010 eQ XDURO is "the ancestor of all eMTBs."

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Stefan Mikes said:
It belongs to my brother now. He typically rides with the limiter on because when he rides past the limiter, Trance E+ uses no power from the battery (the motor is off). It made possible for him to ride for 126 km on a single 625 Wh battery, and there was plenty of juice there after the ride. (I wonder when you rode for 75+ miles the last time, if ever). He even swapped his Trance E+ for traditional Haibike Land bike with a girl who was together with us, so both rode for 30 km of that trip. Both have good legs, I don't.

My third e-bike was never restricted by factory but you can do that with a sequence of keys on the remote. Unrestricted, that e-bike reaches 30 km/h on the flat. (It is a 250 true W hub-drive motor e-bike).

My fourth e-bike (Vado SL) can be derestricted. I wonder why should I do it? To lose the improbable range of that e-bike?!
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Stefan you have no need to wonder about my riding you are not in competition with me... ;) :D

Although 126km is a good ride in any case.... if you're not actually using the motor can you still claim this as "range".... ??? I mean by those standards the range more dependant on the rider than the bike. Something to ponder there :)
 
MartsEbike said:
Stefan you have no need to wonder about my riding you are not in competition with me... ;) :D
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If pedalling is a banished thing as you say, I'm mostly worried about your health.
MartsEbike said:
Although 126km is a good ride in any case.... if you're not actually using the motor can you still claim this as "range".... ??? I mean by those standards the range more dependant on the rider than the bike. Something to ponder there :)
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Two 38-yo female cyclists rode: 126 and 140 km, respectively, although the latter was on ebike for 30 km, just for fun. I wish anyone such shape, and especially to you, Marts if pedalling is a bygone thing for you 🤣
 
Stefan Mikes said:
If pedalling is a banished thing as you say, I'm mostly worried about your health.

Two 38-yo female cyclists rode: 126 and 140 km, respectively, although the latter was on ebike for 30 km, just for fun. I wish anyone such shape, and especially to you, Marts if pedalling is a bygone thing for you 🤣
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You laugh but I don't think you've been keeping up with developments of the youth today :p

I've said it a few times on here... But its not ebikes that have exploded onto the scene in the UK, its Scooters, high powered scooters 1000-3000w. You'll find them everywhere. Many easily reaching 20mph+ and NO PEDALLING 😄
 
MartsEbike said:
TripAdvisor tells me touring Warsaw on electric scooter is rated 5.0! Excellent :D

You should try it some time! 😄
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These are low power, 20 km/h ones. I rode them in Warsaw, Cracow, Wrocław, and Berlin. Decidedly not 1000 W. These were such bad mobility devices I turned my attention to e-bikes. You decidedly need to travel a little after the pandemics is over. Because it is not over for the UK, I wonder why?
 
Stefan Mikes said:
These are low power, 20 km/h ones. I rode them in Warsaw, Cracow, Wrocław, and Berlin. Decidedly not 1000 W. These were such bad mobility devices I turned my attention to e-bikes. You decidedly need to travel a little after the pandemics is over. Because it is not over for the UK, I wonder why?
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You'll need to explain your comment about the UK because I don't understand what you're saying.... but it appears to be derogatory in nature. :oops:

As for travelling, I'm lucky, I work for a major airline and travel for both work and pleasure on a regular basis. :D
 
MartsEbike said:
You'll need to explain your comment about the UK because I don't understand what you're saying.... but it appears to be derogatory in nature. :oops:
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Daily new Covid cases per country as for 30th of June, 2021:
  • The United Kingdom: 20223 (population 66 million)
  • Germany: 808 (population 83 million)
  • Poland: 101 (population 38 million).
I doubt you'd be able to see Warsaw Old Town in the near future.
 
Stefan Mikes said:
Daily new Covid cases per country as for 30th of June, 2021:
  • The United Kingdom: 20223 (population 66 million)
  • Germany: 808 (population 83 million)
  • Poland: 101 (population 38 million).
I doubt you'd be able to see Warsaw Old Town in the near future.
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Talking about Covid is a dangerous subject... Dare question any part of the narrative and you're a conspiracist! 😄

But hopefully the world comes to its senses soon.... :)
 
Stefan Mikes said:
Hub-drive motor? Don't tell me mid-drives existed in 2010? I said modern, Jim.
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I believe Yamaha has been making mid-drive motors since the '90s. And to me, this Haibike sure looks like a mid drive ...
csm_28303aca75e0b1557b3824a3c51c4a5e_775a237564.jpg

Either way, Haibike was putting Bosch mid drives on eMTBs at least as early as 2014 (I had one), but I don't think Specialized came out with its first eMTB until 2016. I seriously doubt Haibike stole the idea from Specialized...

Where did you get that Switzerland story from?
 
Back on topic, Euro have a network of bicycle paths for relatively safe transport. Designed for bicycle speed when used by a reasonably competent cyclist

I wonder if the rationale for 250 w was " fit cyclist 400 w , mere mortal 150 w - frkit, lets add another 250 w - lets see what happens"

I think the US call that a communist plot?
 
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