when will prices come down out of the stratosphere?

Over50 said:
Most people that ask me about the price of my e-bikes are shocked. And I get the usual comments "you could buy a car, motorcycle ... for that". But nobody that is a bike person has ever asked me about prices. All of these interactions involving price have been with people who know very little about bikes and who don't ride at all or don't ride regularly (I assume this from a lack of general bike knowledge that exposes itself in the subsequent conversation).

I've mentioned here before but I didn't experience sticker shock when I first started looking at e-bikes. That is because prior to researching e-bikes I spent a year researching regular touring bikes and commuter bikes. And good ones with quality frames, components etc are not inexpensive. My e-bikes cost less or are on par with most of the touring brands I was looking at. Ultimately I didn't buy a touring bike (but hope to some day). I did buy a commuter bike one year prior to buying an e-bike. For my Spot (chromoly steel, belt drive, IGH) I spent $1,400 on the base bike - but then added a dynamo with lights, fenders, rack, changed bars, pedals, tires ... So easily into it for $2,400. So $3K-$5K for a purpose built e-bike with components built by companies with brand recognition, offering warranties etc doesn't seem out of line relative to what a high quality regular bike costs.

I can't count how many times I have had complete strangers ask how much I spent on my e-bikes. I would never ask that of someone but I don't necessarily mind when someone asks it of me. It does seem slightly inappropriate to me but I try to do my best and answer honestly without trying to justify to a stranger how I choose to spend my money. But the most unpleasant exchange happened just recently. I left an eatery after lunch and was unlocking my bike when a middle-aged gentleman with a union logo on his cap walking with his children stopped to chat. First question was "does that have a motor?". Second question was "how much does it cost"? It was the Tern GSD and I answered honestly. His response had a tone of disdain "hell you could buy a motorcycle for that". I might have responded with something lame like "yeah, their pricey" stifling my desire to answer a little more sarcastically. The chat abruptly ended and without a "thanks" or "have a nice day" he walked away with the kids and said loudly to them (but I assume moreso directed his comment at me), "we'll go home and make one that is way better than that for a lot less money". I wonder where he is on that project ...

I had another guy way over-estimate the cost of my Haibike. As I was unlocking at the bike rack, a middle aged guy in a business suit smoking a cigarette asked me "did that thing cost like $10K"? He sounded disappointed when I told him it "only" cost $4K. Kudos to Haibike for making a $4K bike look like a $10K bike. Maybe cost is largely a matter of perspective and priorities.
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The vast majority of regular bikes that are over $1200 are carbon bikes (just got a flyer in the mail from performance bike with 2 different model full carbon bikes at $1200). Have you looked at the price of ebikes that are carbon based??? Nearly $5000 or more like $10,000 or much more.
 
AZOldTech said:
The vast majority of regular bikes that are over $1200 are carbon bikes (just got a flyer in the mail from performance bike with 2 different model full carbon bikes at $1200).
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Aren't the ones selling for $1200 are usually old model year closeouts, with limited selection of sizes? Most carbon bikes I have seen start at more than $2K.
 
Nova Haibike said:
Aren't the ones selling for $1200 are usually old model year closeouts, with limited selection of sizes? Most carbon bikes I have seen start at more than $2K.
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Those specific ones are 2018 models, both of them and limited sizes. However you can catch sales at Performance even earlier in the year with all sizes. 2018 Fuji Brevet 2.3 Disc 105 and 2018 Fuji grand Fondo Classico 1.1 Ultegra. Sale starts Saturday 11/16-11/25 for $1199 either one of them (regular price $1529 and $1439 respectively). And if you go to BikesDirect you can get any carbon size regular bike you want even cheaper (like from $999). Difference will mainly be the groupset 105 or ultegra. Carbon bikes have come way down in price. Unfortunately I can't say the same for Carbon ebikes (cause I've been looking at them and prices are still in the stratosphere or more like out in space or a different galaxy altogether).
https://www.performancebike.com/shop/fuji-gran-fondo-classico-11-road-bike-2018-31-8503
https://www.performancebike.com/shop/fuji-brevet-23-disc-womens-road-bike-2018-31-8709
 
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AZOldTech said:
The vast majority of regular bikes that are over $1200 are carbon bikes (just got a flyer in the mail from performance bike with 2 different model full carbon bikes at $1200). Have you looked at the price of ebikes that are carbon based??? Nearly $5000 or more like $10,000 or much more.
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There are lots of steel-framed bikes with stratospheric prices. Following are just prices for frames (to make an actual bicycle from them you'll spend quite a bit more):

 
I guess I am thinking of the mainline manufacturers, i.e. Trek, Specialized, Giant, Cannondale. FWIW, Fuji is owned by the same company as Performance. Bikes Direct, that's an online-only company like Juiced, Rad, etc., so that isn't exactly a direct comparison.
 
Nova Haibike said:
I guess I am thinking of the mainline manufacturers, i.e. Trek, Specialized, Giant, Cannondale. FWIW, Fuji is owned by the same company as Performance. Bikes Direct, that's an online-only company like Juiced, Rad, etc., so that isn't exactly a direct comparison.
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Yes, but have you seen the prices of EBIKES from Trek, Specialized, Giant, Cannondale??? No relation to many of the direct ebike companies... but they are clearly custom ebikes instead of Chinese made in one factory. That's probably a big reason why Stromer and the other custom ebikes are so much more expensive.
 
compared to top of the line pedal only bikes our ebikes are a great value for the most part but casual bike riders are used to paying hundreds, not thousands for a bike. Sticker shock is still an issue with ebikes IMO. Typicially though, one ride and people don't care what it cost, they are sold immediately. I was.
 
DDBB said:
compared to top of the line pedal only bikes our ebikes are a great value for the most part but casual bike riders are used to paying hundreds, not thousands for a bike. Sticker shock is still an issue with ebikes IMO. Typicially though, one ride and people don't care what it cost, they are sold immediately. I was.
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Bikes aren't sold by weight, they are sold by performance divided by how many miles/kms you do it for. What they can do for a person and how pleasant it is for the person doing it. They are the most efficient form of transportation humanity has yet invented. A cheaper bike that doesn't get ridden much can be quite expensive per mile. While a pricey one that gets a lot of use can be a good value. Many if not most people who don't get this have no real intention of using a bike for much of anything beyond very occasional recreation.
 
I put over 3,000mi. on my $169.00 Schwinn network 3.0 bike in 2 years. I guess I got the best of both worlds. Unfortunately my left hip needs replaced and hard pedaling or fast cadence hurts too much for it to be used for anything more than short rides now. The $2,000+ Haibike was just the ticket for my current situation. I still have to pedal but w/o near the torque or rpm's I had to before. Fortunately the Yamaha PW motor doesn't require a high rpm to get the most from it but I do wish it took even LESS torque for the assist to stay engaged. It's enabled me to still enjoy riding while putting off the hip replacement a little longer
 
Well, in the interest of saving money, if you are currently a serious buyer, Rad announced some pretty special Black Friday pricing!

$400 off the Rad City do anything for you? Sounds a bit like too good to be true, but that's what the add says!
 
AHicks said:
Well, in the interest of saving money, if you are currently a serious buyer, Rad announced some pretty special Black Friday pricing!

$400 off the Rad City do anything for you? Sounds a bit like too good to be true, but that's what the add says!
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WOW!!! $300-$400 off ALL their Rad Power ebikes. $800-$1000 off if you buy 2 of them. So I just started a general section thread where everyone can post the Thanksgiving week/Black Friday/Black Monday Special deals as they find them. I think that would be very helpful to people who are looking to purchase an ebike or looking for a bargain.
https://electricbikereview.com/foru...iday-black-monday-e-bike-specials-here.26017/
 
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Here's an interesting exercise - try comparing equal spec emtb vs memtb from the same manufacturer.

The closest I can think of is a giant trance advanced 1 vs trance e+1 pro

Both share
similar suspension ( fox 36 performance 150 mm)
Similar sram eagle gx12
The ebike gets better brakes ( both sram but 200 mm vs 180 mm)
The ebike gets wider ( more expensive) tyres (2.6 vs 2.5 inch)
The oldbike has a carbon frame, but lets not get into arguments about heat transfer from motors to carbon frames vs any real performance benefit. Unfortunately giant doesn't do a high spec alloy trance any longer, and none of their emtb's have to put up with the low spec running gear of the alloy framed trances.

Price difference?

14% extra for the emtb of similar spec.

That's amazing value - to think that the battery / motor / electrics and significant r+d costs only account for 14% of the retail cost ( aus $7 k vs $6 k )
 
AZOldTech said:
The vast majority of regular bikes that are over $1200 are carbon bikes ....
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I think there are a ton of regular bikes out there that are more than $1,200 that are not carbon frames. $1,200 to me still seems to be on the upper end of the lower end of bikes (based on what I found in my shopping for a touring or commuter bike). Maybe if you said vast majority of road bikes over $4K are carbon then I might go along with the assertion. I just quickly pulled up a few non-carbon bikes on a very fast search. Competing with Spot for my purchase of a commuter was this Breezer Beltway $1,800 aluminum. Opted for the Spot to get a steel frame bike. And pulled up the Trek website and just perused the bikes and saw a lot of alloy bikes over $1,200 (none of these are custom built).

Commuter bike example - $1,800:
http://www.breezerbikes.com/bikes/transportation/beltway/beltway-11-plus-us
Mountain bike example - $2,800:
https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/...-mountain-bikes/fuel-ex/fuel-ex-7-29/p/23590/
Road bike example - $3,000
https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/...t/crockett-7-disc/p/23093/?colorCode=greydark
Cyclocross example - $1,900
https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/...rockett-5-disc/p/17456/?colorCode=black_green
Touring example - $2,100 (you probably won't find carbon frame touring bikes)

So an e-bike that is $3-$5K doesn't really seem out of line with the prices of quality purpose-built regular bikes (to me). Keeping in mind that a lot of e-bike companies are small, small- batch niche manufacturers and do not benefit from the economies of scale that a Trek or another mass producer might benefit from. And none of the examples above include the touring manufacturers that i was considering, some of whom sell titanium bikes, and whether steel or titanium are obviously a lot more expensive than the Trek examples I provided.
 
Here are two popular steel-framed bikes that cost more than $1200:

All-City Space Horse Disc
Surly Disc Trucker

These two designs have been around in one form or another for a long time and have aged very gracefully. They are wonderful touring and commuter bikes, and decent on gravel as well as pavement. If you only could own one bike they would make an excellent choice.
 
My second post on this thread, but I repeat that eBike prices IMHO are quite fair. With all the hand wringing on the many tariff threads, moaning about prices, Black Friday deals give a clue about the profit margins these sellers have. Rad, for example has the Rad City for $1295, it’s a great bike. If I didn’t already have an eBike I guarantee I would buy one. Rad isn’t the only one. There are some incredible deals out there right now.

Most ebikes are purpose built, with the huge extra expense of battery, motor, controller, and screen added. Of course the are going to be more expensive, but to me most pricing is fair.
 
JayVee said:
Why do people always think that the price tag measures what something actually costs? My e-bike saves me 45 minutes a day versus public transportation. That’s the equivalent of 160 hours over the course of a year or roughly the equivalent of a month’s worth of work. If you translate that into a salary, it comes out to way more money than the cost of the e-bike. I also save 1000 dollars a year on transportation. Even if I factor in the maintenance costs associated with the bike (disk pads, tires, etc.), plus the occasional days when the weather is simply too bad to ride, it still leaves me with a hefty wad of cash in my hand. I’ve only skipped commuting for about 20 days a year due to bad weather. Cost: roughly 50 dollars. Maintenance costs (including time spent) & insurance are under 400 dollars. That leaves me with 550 net. I’ve spent zero on bike specific clothes.

With all the accessories (Abus lock, panniers, helmet), the bike cost 3K. So the effective cost after 2 years is 1900 dollars. Plus 320 hours saved. And if I didn’t own an e-bike I’d have to buy a regular bike. That would probably cost me an extra 800 dollars.

So I’m failing to see how this bike could be ‘expensive’. If you ask me it’s dirt cheap!
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Though I agree with your point, not all can use commuting as an excuse for buying an e-bike, let alone use it to justify an expensive one. That logic makes great sense to a certain extent - though it's still tough to justify a Mercedes when a Fiat can do the same thing (provide commuter transportation).

For a lot of us, myself included, there's a substantial leap of faith required to purchase something that may end up collecting dust.
 
E-bikes that are live on crowdfunding sites usually lower their prices in order to satisfy customers and attract backer. On Indiegogo for example, this bike's base model costs $1099. It's a folding ebike, they say it weighs only 12.9kg.

https://igg.me/at/ridecarbo/x/19667053
74bd577c-330folding.png
 
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