What's the Scorecard on Mid-drive?

[Deleted member 803]

I'm not sure that everyone or even the majority of bike riders agree on which motor is superior. Both rear hubs and mid drives work very well.

 

[PowerMe]

The motor & battery combo I consider the best is that which will reliably power a 5'10" 185 lb man pedaling moderately, for 50 or more miles on a mixture of grades from 1% to 6% at an average speed of 15mph on one battery charge.

 

[stevenast]

The motor & battery combo I consider the best is that which will reliably power a 5'10" 185 lb man pedaling moderately, for 50 or more miles on a mixture of grades from 1% to 6% at an average speed of 15mph on one battery charge.

Excellent. Got it covered!

 

[DWEBiker]

600 watt hub drive moves this big man easily, i dont need no stinkin mid drive

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Some kids want to buy the latest iMac or Macbook Pro because it's cool and sexy but they end up using it as a glorified Facebook browser.
Mid drives make sense for MTB'ing but for commute, they are awfully slow (I'm not talking about 750W BBS02, which is beast but has it's own problems).
I feel like the current batch of "standard" mid-drives are like using underpowered Macbook. Yes, they look aesthetically pleasing but PC's can get the job done at half the cost and have more versatility.

I have done my fair share of homework and I'm not buying into the hype. I don't do heavy off-roading and my Neo Jumper has been great for trail use. With the mid-drive because you're using planetary gears all the time, if you're cruising at ~24mph, a 400 Whr powerpack has just enough juice for 20-23 miles. That is too less and you need to wait another 4 hrs to charge back up or carry a spare battery.

48V mid-drive system, 750-800Whr battery capacity, 45-50lbs total weight, $3000....

(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

 

[J.R.]

If someone put a gun to my head and told me to purchase something NOW for the next 2 years, using my own money, it would be an Easy Motion... $3k something.

 

[DWEBiker]

If someone put a gun to my head and told me to purchase something NOW for the next 2 years, using my own money, it would be an Easy Motion... $3k something.

thats a whole other thread - i would get a 2 wheel drive fat bike for the minnesota winters , heated seat and grips , heated battery box/bag to keep those batteries toasty

 

[pxpaulx]

thats a whole other thread - i would get a 2 wheel drive fat bike for the minnesota winters , heated seat and grips , windshield?

Have you seen the 2wd Easy motion?! They missed the boat not going fat with that bike for sure.

 

[eDean]

I have both a mid drive FS RX and rear hub Net Jet. The mid drive does not "revolutionize" the experience. I'm not sure the cost benefit is there yet. It is a very complex system.

 

[Kaldeem]

Thursday I'm going to go ride some of the Easy motions including the new evo 27.5 and I'm going to try some of the mid-drive systems they have. Haibike (again) and Currie Tech izip with the transx mid drives.

 

[J.R.]

Thursday I'm going to go ride some of the Easy motions including the new evo 27.5 and I'm going to try some of the mid-drive systems they have. Haibike (again) and Currie Tech izip with the transx mid drives.

I am very interested in hearing your thoughts of the 27.5 and TransX bikes.

 

[stevenast]

I have done my fair share of homework and I'm not buying into the hype

Speaking of buying into hype...

What's really hyped is the Stromer brand. Heavy rear hub motor, heavy frame, high speed + high capacity battery is available in a $2000ish Prodeco bike. Do $50 worth of electronic add-ons really make it worth $7,000?

There is plenty of hype for all motor configurations!!

 

[stevenast]

Mid drives make sense for MTB'ing but for commute, they are awfully slow

Mid-drives can easily exceed 30mph. The Bosch motor distributors have wisely chosen to obey United States regulations, instead of wandering into the gray area of the speed pedelecs. Therefore, most are limited artificially to 20 miles per hour at the current time.

 

[stevenast]

I have both a mid drive FS RX and rear hub Net Jet. The mid drive does not "revolutionize" the experience. I'm not sure the cost benefit is there yet. It is a very complex system.

Fully agree that the cost benefit is not there yet.

 

[George S.]

Mid-drives can easily exceed 30mph. The Bosch motor distributors have wisely chosen to obey United States regulations, instead of wandering into the gray area of the speed pedelecs. Therefore, most are limited artificially to 20 miles per hour at the current time.

I'm not sure how this will play out:

https://www.haibike.com/de/de

The 45 km/h is 28 mph, so right in line with the California stuff. You have to move to the "Specifications" tab.

 

[NoDTMF]

Okay I missed this thread. I have two Bosch mid drives...me and my wife. I do some serious climbing with this bike. Overall weight and the fact that the mid-drive won't shut down on the hill is important to me. My wife...well she could use a hub. She basically puts the bike in middle gear and we ride surface stuff mostly. However we do have one hill climb when we go to town, and I'm not sure how the Hub would do...she goes to the lowest gear on Turbo mode for that climb.

 

[NoDTMF]

Okay so now I read this complete thread. I don't understand how the term complexity is being used. From the consumer view, I turn the mid drive on and pedal. I don't have a front derailleur, so I only maintain a rear derailleur. If I get a flat on the rear tire I just take it off. Less weight on the rear rim result in fewer rim adjustments (all other things being equal). Therefore, I assume when people speak of complexity for the mid drives they are basically talking about cost. I purposely made the decision to pay more because I didn't want complexity. I guess it is a matter of definition....

 

[George S.]

There is system complexity and then there is what the user experiences. If I get in a Google self-driving car and it takes me where I want to go while I do nothing, that is 'simple' for me. But the car is doing all the work.

The Bosch system is expensive which must represent development costs. Many other systems seemed flawed, just from reading the reviews. A hub motor works very well with a beefier design at the stress points. Front hubs leave the drive train untouched and eliminate issues with flats, for the most part. People need to engineer a bit for front hubs, but any ebike has to be carefully thought out.

They don't generally use front derailleurs with mid-drives, because the motor must be accommodated. I'm not sure that's a positive, since mid-drives work best with the correct gears. The gears help if you want to ride the bike without the motor. Auto-shift seems to be the next thing with mid-drive. It doesn't seem nearly so useful with a decent (US wattage) hub motor. Right now if you want to build a very usable ebike for the best mix of cost and engineering, you can't dismiss hub motors.

What is a mid-drive really worth? For the way most people ride, which system is 'simpler', or even more satisfying? How many things to consider? Speed? Efficiency? Hill Climbing? Noise levels? Costs? Learning curves? Maintenance? Proprietary issues? Kit builder issues? Frame issues?

 

[stevenast]

There is system complexity and then there is what the user experiences. If I get in a Google self-driving car and it takes me where I want to go while I do nothing, that is 'simple' for me. But the car is doing all the work.

The Bosch system is expensive which must represent development costs. Many other systems seemed flawed, just from reading the reviews. A hub motor works very well with a beefier design at the stress points. Front hubs leave the drive train untouched and eliminate issues with flats, for the most part. People need to engineer a bit for front hubs, but any ebike has to be carefully thought out.

They don't generally use front derailleurs with mid-drives, because the motor must be accommodated. I'm not sure that's a positive, since mid-drives work best with the correct gears. The gears help if you want to ride the bike without the motor. Auto-shift seems to be the next thing with mid-drive. It doesn't seem nearly so useful with a decent (US wattage) hub motor. Right now if you want to build a very usable ebike for the best mix of cost and engineering, you can't dismiss hub motors.

What is a mid-drive really worth? For the way most people ride, which system is 'simpler', or even more satisfying? How many things to consider? Speed? Efficiency? Hill Climbing? Noise levels? Costs? Learning curves? Maintenance? Proprietary issues? Kit builder issues? Frame issues?

What is hub-drive really worth? Some things to consider:

Handling? Flat repair? Strain on fork or dropouts? Overheating? Pedaling enjoyment? Overall weight? Unsprung weight? Balance? Responsiveness? Quality?

(Note: I am aware this list has slight overlap with the list above, but this list comes from a different slant!)

 

[eDean]

When I refer to complexity, it is about the complexity of the overall solution. I guess this can be good or bad. Higher complexity means that off warranty, the cost of repair/replacement will be high.