What's an "SUV" ebike?

[PCeBiker]

Have you had experience with the JW sliding out under you?

No, I was speaking generally about knobby tires.

I’m not riding on tight asphalt high speed turns w strong lateral forces. I gave up that kind of riding 40 yrs ago.

It was 40 years ago that I used to do it on my motorcycle, but I'm starting to do it on my e-bike now.
It's a strange feeling trusting your tires to stick to the asphalt while leaning over.

On the slippery sand/gravel over hard pack and pavement I find the JW predictable. I have some dirt tires that are better off road but awful on pavement and some gravel tires that are quite nice on pavement but too slippery braking down some trails w/o lowering tire pressure.

I got used to riding loose gravel roads with my street tires.
I have to steer and brake very gently to keep from sliding out.
I practice locking up the front tire in the gravel to get a feel for skidding, and it's always fun to lock up the rear tire and do a skid turn.

No skidding on the asphalt though.
I don't want to wear flat spots into my tires.

I ride 90% dirt roads and no-hands 80% of the time.
I can ride for ½ an hour without seeing another vehicle or having to touch the handlebars.

 

[il Munduato]

I didn't realise I was trying to impress you or anyone else for that matter.

Are you sure about that? Mentioning intervals in response to a cornering comment comes across as so.

My statement reflects my apparently "not spirited riding" experience;

Correct

you clearly know better than me,

Correct again.

so I will leave you it.

Now have a nice day.

I thank you

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And you were also correct in that context matters. If you did read you'd have seen that my initial remark was in reply to this statement.

If you take those knobbie tires around a tight corner on asphalt, they will slide out from under you.

A street type tire with knobs on the sidewall is much better suited to all terrain and Way More efficient on the pavement and hardback.

I think something like the Schwalbe Hurricane is a good comprosmise,..

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I agree, JW tires are very sketchy on asphalt. You best not be doing any spirited riding.

So your interpretation of spirited is an exercise regime that has nothing to do with cornering.
Mine is pushing the limits of both myself and the bike.
Probably best that you stick to what you know already.

 

[PCeBiker]

Whoops. I have been doing intervals on mine ...

I had to Google that,..

There's no intervals for me.
I don't even pedal.

I just float along no-hands smoking cigarettes.

When I want to improve my riding ability I lock up the front wheel and learn to control a skid.

 

[il Munduato]

I had to Google that,..

View attachment 177860



There's no intervals for me.
I don't even pedal.

I just float along no-hands smoking cigarettes.

When I want to improve my riding ability I lock up the front wheel and learn to control a skid.

As anyone can easily see... Intervals has nothing to do with an SUV ebike nor the cornering ability of a tire used on an SUV ebike.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

I didn't realise I was trying to impress you or anyone else for that matter.

Not sure how the offending quote got my name on it, but someone else said "not impressed", not me. Please fix it.

 

[PCeBiker]

As anyone can easily see... Intervals has nothing to do with an SUV ebike nor the cornering ability of a tire used on an SUV ebike.

All I know is that many of the gravel roads I ride on have Very Loose gravel and I don't think that knobby tires would make very much difference, especially just after the road has had maintenance done.

I've been passed by cars that fishtailed left to right three times as they got back into their lane in front of me.

It's as slippery as snow covered/icy roads.
I've had cross winds that almost pushed me off the road because I couldn't steer back to the center of the road without my tires sliding.
That's when I slow Way down.

 

[Aushiker]

Not sure how the offending quote got my name on it, but someone else said "not impressed", not me. Please fix it.

As I cannot edit that part of the post, I have deleted it.

 

[Aushiker]

I ride 40% dirt road, 40% trail and 20% asphalt and a short stretch of sharp drainage rocks. The knobs on Johnny Watts are not like widely spaced mtn bike knobs. I’m more concerned with dirt road grip and still decent pavement handling. Have you had experience with the JW sliding out under you? I haven’t. I’m not riding on tight asphalt high speed turns w strong lateral forces. I gave up that kind of riding 40 yrs ago. On the slippery sand/gravel over hard pack and pavement I find the JW predictable. I have some dirt tires that are better off road but awful on pavement and some gravel tires that are quite nice on pavement but too slippery braking down some trails w/o lowering tire pressure.

The funny thing is I have only come off on bitumen on my roadie, going into a roundabout hot on a wet day with IIRC Continental GP400s (or similar) fitted. It was several years ago, so I cannot recall the specific tyres.

If I applied the logic suggested here in some posts, I would be coming off my SuperCharger every time I ride as I have a sharp, bottom-of-a-decline 90-degree turn into my street. I do not slow down that much, but I do (irrespective of the bike or tyres) avoid the steel drainage grate in the road, as that can be deadly, even with just a bit of morning dew.

As to the Johhny Watts, they have proven fine so far in both bitumen and the bit of dirt I have played on. I will stick with them for now unless I plan to do more bitumen > gravel/single track riding, in which I will swap them out for faster rolling tyres such as Continental Race King ProTections. Hopefully, the bike will remain an SUV if I do that

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Not possible from my end.

Are you sure? Did you try? The edit function is oddly hidden under the "Report" link at bottom left. Pretty sure I could fix that error if it were my own post.

 

[Aushiker]

Andrew, do not go in a dispute with the man. He "knows it better"

Yep. Done. Life is too short ....

 

[Aushiker]

Are you sure? Did you try? The edit function is oddly hidden under the "Report" link at bottom left. Pretty sure I could fix that error if it were my own post.

Nah, I didn't bother to try

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

As I cannot edit that part of the post, I have deleted it.

We cross-posted on this. Thanks.

 

[il Munduato]

I ride 40% dirt road, 40% trail and 20% asphalt and a short stretch of sharp drainage rocks. The knobs on Johnny Watts are not like widely spaced mtn bike knobs. I’m more concerned with dirt road grip and still decent pavement handling. Have you had experience with the JW sliding out under you? I haven’t. I’m not riding on tight asphalt high speed turns w strong lateral forces. I gave up that kind of riding 40 yrs ago. On the slippery sand/gravel over hard pack and pavement I find the JW predictable. I have some dirt tires that are better off road but awful on pavement and some gravel tires that are quite nice on pavement but too slippery braking down some trails w/o lowering tire pressure.

You'll probably be fine for the type of riding you do. What I don't like about the JW was there was no warning of slide out in my preliminary trial rides. They felt secure until they didn't and then broke quickly with no chance of recovery. First time it happened I took some blame as I was riding aggressively in not so familiar terrain. But the second time they broke free on me was a tight turn I take almost every day and never had an issue with a more street oriented multi_use SUV tire. Now that I know their limits I've been fine with them though I'm not sure I will replace them with the same.
Everything is a compromise especially with a product that is described as multi_use. If you rode more pavement I'd pass on the JW and take @PCeBiker suggestion on the center tread.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

I've had good luck with another hybrid tire — the 2.3" Specialized Crossroads Armadillo. (The Armadillo part refers to their highest level of puncture resistance.) More than adequate for my purposes both on and off pavement. But at 75, I've pretty much given up scraping inside knees in the corners.

You can see how the side lugs engage softer surfaces at lower left, even when the bike's upright.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

"spirited ride" = riding after drinking spirits (ethanol). Not recommended. Don't drink and ride!

 

[BlackHand]

You'll probably be fine for the type of riding you do. What I don't like about the JW was there was no warning of slide out in my preliminary trial rides. They felt secure until they didn't and then broke quickly with no chance of recovery. First time it happened I took some blame as I was riding aggressively in not so familiar terrain. But the second time they broke free on me was a tight turn I take almost every day and never had an issue with a more street oriented multi_use SUV tire. Now that I know their limits I've been fine with them though I'm not sure I will replace them with the same.
Everything is a compromise especially with a product that is described as multi_use. If you rode more pavement I'd pass on the JW and take @PCeBiker suggestion on the center tread.

Thank you for posting your actual experience with them, instead of just calling them sketchy.

I have over 7000 miles on a set of JWs and find their handling very predictable and consistent across a range of surfaces and conditions. Yeah, I don't corner as tightly at speed as I used to on my Super MotoX tires. Then again, those tires let out on me multiple times in both wet and cold conditions on corners I take often.

I might try the Al Grounder next, but I prefer a folding tire like the JWs because they are so much easier to get on the rim after patching a tube in the field.

 

[BikerG]

Not sure "SUV" is just a marketing term. Have yet to see it on an official ebike product page, and I look at a lot of those just out of curiosity. In fact, the only place I've ever seen it used to refer to an ebike is the EBR forum.

Any examples of ebikes explicitly hawked as SUVs by their manufacturers or sellers?

My Canyon was labeled as Canyon Pathlite 5 ON SUV.
Ive got it strictly set up an an off-road, bikepacking rig. That’s all I use this bike for, 90% of the time.

 

[dblhelix]

I think you need to have a chat with my Riese and Muller SuperCharger then because, oh no, it is heading off on Monday on a 16-day 1,200-kilometre bikepacking ride, of which at least 65% is off the bitumen. It would be more off bitumen if the routing options made it possible.

This, BTW, is why it was brought.

The next planned shorter overnight is the Captain Fawcett Trail. Depending on the time of year, it will be ridden on either the Supercharger 2 or my Salsa Mukluk (fat bike), with my preference for the Supercharger.

Does this make it an SUV? Maybe, given that Captain Fawcett is a 4WD track

No need for a chat as I've owned 3 R&Ms which I've taken across the US 2x + one 1400 mile trip for major trips and umpteen shorter trips with a good deal of involuntary off-road. Some examples of involuntary: Montana - a choice between I-90 or abandoned railroad tracks with a mix of parallel gravel or ATV (deeply pitted) track. Or, no paved in UT leaving me with a trek across the West UT desert. The route originally planned was made unfeasible by the only source of food/electric etc for miles closing without warning ...

As an early adopter of E14, I found it too low to the ground, and the shifter unit collided with brush/small logs, rendering it inoperable. It's now positioned much higher on the SC (at 3 o'clock vs 6 o'clock on mine). You haven't lived until you've pushed an R&M for miles in the middle of nowhere. Speaking of which, had to do it again in the desert when the bike could not manage sandy terrain. It was sooo hot, and I was running out of water. Luckily an astronomer in a truck camping nearby gave me a gallon from his supply.

Another time the motor locked up, and I pushed for 6 miles to a Trek dealer in Georgetown, DC. The fastest route from the canal towpath I was on to the shop is ... up steps. The bike had about 10k miles on it, which brings me to my next point: Everything is fun and fine to about the 3k-4k mark. Then your costs start adding up fast if you're using your bike in rougher terrain. Also, warranty service gets more difficult when you actually use the R&M with gusto. It's like the fitness gym model: an impulse buy with a subsequent "low miles" sale means full margins for the dealer. A core power user means the equipment gets used, bah!

I don't regret the trips and wish you a great time on your trip. However, I do not consider the R&Ms suitable for off-road. 1. Too damn heavy 2. insufficient support outside of metro areas 3. technology that can leave the bike inoperable at the most inconvenient locations 4. A real jump in expense (unless you buy a newer model, but same difference). 5. Not nimble; lack of mobility in constrained areas.

Have to add a somewhat recent experience. The towpath I mentioned above is local to me. I also grew up in a neighborhood right on the towpath. I've taken it from DC to Pittsburgh and back probably 15x at this point, both non-e and electric bikes. The route is relatively flat and as comfortable as comfortable can be. On occasion, the NPS (park service) will detour you. I was on my way to PA to visit with friends when I hit a detour up a hill covered with something like wet mulch. No way of pushing that heavy R&M up -- insufficient traction.

 

[m@Robertson]

Lesson For Today:

The proper reaction when someone calls a bicycle an SUV

 

[Watana Bob]

I concur with what Blackhand says, I dont have his milage but I have run Johnny Watts for 2000 miles and after changing from Super Moto's after scaring myself in fall conditions with wet pavement and leaves. I find the JW's much better suited for those conditions. Bonus, no fllats so far in those 2000 miles.