What Would You Have Done?

[kevinmccune]

I get all that. I do. And I'm sensitive to that point of view, up to the point I'm putting my pets at risk. And I'm not going to take the time to catch and release pit vipers. The risks just aren't worth it, to me anyway, As for us being in their space, I really get that too. Me and my pets are allowed to have some space too though. That doesn't mean I'd kill all the elephants in Africa if that's were I lived. Pit vipers are another thing though, but I know that can be argued.

To give you an idea about what I meant by our property being infested, I didn't keep count, but the first couple of years we were here I probably killed 3 dozen copperheads and rattlesnakes within about 100 yards of the house, and more since, without ever going looking for them. I'm not proud of that, but I can't live in that kind of environment. My dogs and horse suffered just about more than I could stand from snake bites. It isn't a tough choice for me between my dogs and snakes. That's aside from the 3 days I spent in the hospital 30 years ago. I still have nerve damage from that.

I know it's not popular nowadays but I'm comfortable with my position on killing poisonous snakes close the house. I leave the other ones alone.

TT

That is peculiar, you must live almost on a snake den, usually, the conditions that favor one type of snake are not really conducive to the others,Rattlers can do well in rocky spots while a copperhead can be almost anywhere( even in buildings) the rattlers generally avoid buildings, copperheads can move in, in dry weather you will find pit vipers near the water. Seems the crawlspaces on Homes and old buildings are bit too cool for Rattlesnakes' liking. One thing that brings them in are rodents and small animals. Copperheads are known to frequent old woodpiles and their camo' is almost perfect against the forest floor, if I had to choose between the two I would favor the rattlesnake because the Copperhead will literally let you step on them without warning you.
Not really relevant, you would be surprised at the things that prey on snakes( Raptors, other snakes, etc) Poisonous snakes are rare around here, probably for that reason(Collie Dogs are really hard on snakes as well)

 

[procreator]

Trying to get back on track to the original post about the axe-swinging guy...

It is unfortunate that we live in a society where we need to worry about stuff like this. I was talking to a co-worker about a woman that we both worked with at one time. She told the co-worker how she carried a sidearm when she went jogging. I live in NE Wisconsin and violent crime is generally not too big of a concern. But apparently, there were enough incidents of women joggers getting sexually assaulted while on the trails that this woman felt the need for self-defense.

For myself, I'd be more worried about wolves on some of the wooded trails I would travel. Never encountered an axe-swinging guy, though.

 

[Mike TowpathTraveler]

Back to the OP and the original post...... I believe @6zfshdb had great, internal Situational Awareness instincts as to what he came upon on that remote trail ride. To be dismissive of that kind of encounter would be foolish. Especially today, when homeless (with any kind of human behavorial issues) can be found anywhere, alongside the mentally ill or drug addicted, it has to be taken under consideration. The northern reach of the Lock 1 portion of the Delaware Raritan Canal towpath that I often ride, ends in the outskirts of urban Trenton, NJ. Urban Trenton is, per capita, a dangerous place. That fact of the matter has to always be taken into consideration when venturing up in that area. A cinder towpath surrounded by woods and the abandoned D&R Canal. Several years ago, on this northern reach, riding alone, north to my turnaround point; I came upon a lone guy walking southbound. I thought it odd, he was wearing what appeared to be a skin-colored one-piece body suit.....until I got closer and realized it wasn't a body suit..... Long blonde, straggly hair. My first thought was meth-head. Situational Awareness kicking in. SA made me determine quite quickly he wasn't carrying any hidden weapons (lol), so I came back to him and kinda "talked" to him about putting some clothes on. I continued on back to Lock 1 and in doing so, I was concerned about any kids working their way on bikes towards him, luckily there were no kids out but there was an older couple, whom I advised of what was walking their way, a bit further up, on the trail..... Reached the local police station and reported my findings. Didn't like doing that, but the D&R Trail is not a clothing optional trail and children do bike it; as too, solitary women of all ages.

On the other side of the Delaware River, across from my homestate D&R Canal, is the D&L Canal. And I can tell you that within the reach from Morrisville, PA, south to Bristol PA, there are homeless encampments in the wood alongside the trail. Add into the mix that this canal is some 20 odd miles from Philadelphia and the crime/drugs/homeless situation that has spread beyond that troubled city's border, into small areas like Bristol and Morrisville. It's a very real fact of life around here, anymore.

Ongoing right now in Indiana, is an arrest in the murders of two young girls, out walking the remote Monon High Bridge Trail. Situational Awareness made one of the girls photograph their soon-to-be assailant, walking on the bridge, towards them. She also captured his voice, forcing them to go "down the hill". Heartbreaking. Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murders_of_Abigail_Williams_and_Liberty_German But that trail that they were walking on looked no different that the D&R trail I ride on. You have to be aware. You have to heed those senses within that say....."hold off". You have to give yourself an out.

I don't want anyone to misunderstand my own use of Situational Awareness in the areas I ride in NJ or PA. It's not at all about being some fearful, quivering paranoid worried about every encounter I come upon in my rides. Not at all. Situational Awareness just means that I quickly size up anything coming upon me in any ride, at any time. As simple as a constant look in my rear view mirror to the cars & trucks coming upon behind me as it is surveying the road way in front of my tires for nails, glass, potholes and other debris. That Situational Awareness changes when I get in an area like that northern reach of the D&R for anything ahead of me and alongside me within the woods to my right and left.

Wildlife encounters in my riding areas are not potentially fatal as they are, say in the Pacific Northwest within Cougar country; or in areas of Montana within Grizzly country. Situational Awareness is a condition that is to be adapted to the physical surroundings you are in. It's not strictly confined to just human encounters.

Be nice. Be respectful and courteous. But if ever or whenever you are in doubt......get out. Give yourself that out.

 

[Djangodog]

Back to the OP and the original post...... I believe @6zfshdb had great, internal Situational Awareness instincts as to what he came upon on that remote trail ride. To be dismissive of that kind of encounter would be foolish. Especially today, when homeless (with any kind of human behavorial issues) can be found anywhere, alongside the mentally ill or drug addicted, it has to be taken under consideration. The northern reach of the Lock 1 portion of the Delaware Raritan Canal towpath that I often ride, ends in the outskirts of urban Trenton, NJ. Urban Trenton is, per capita, a dangerous place. That fact of the matter has to always be taken into consideration when venturing up in that area. A cinder towpath surrounded by woods and the abandoned D&R Canal. Several years ago, on this northern reach, riding alone, north to my turnaround point; I came upon a lone guy walking southbound. I thought it odd, he was wearing what appeared to be a skin-colored one-piece body suit.....until I got closer and realized it wasn't a body suit..... Long blonde, straggly hair. My first thought was meth-head. Situational Awareness kicking in. SA made me determine quite quickly he wasn't carrying any hidden weapons (lol), so I came back to him and kinda "talked" to him about putting some clothes on. I continued on back to Lock 1 and in doing so, I was concerned about any kids working their way on bikes towards him, luckily there were no kids out but there was an older couple, whom I advised of what was walking their way, a bit further up, on the trail..... Reached the local police station and reported my findings. Didn't like doing that, but the D&R Trail is not a clothing optional trail and children do bike it; as too, solitary women of all ages.

On the other side of the Delaware River, across from my homestate D&R Canal, is the D&L Canal. And I can tell you that within the reach from Morrisville, PA, south to Bristol PA, there are homeless encampments in the wood alongside the trail. Add into the mix that this canal is some 20 odd miles from Philadelphia and the crime/drugs/homeless situation that has spread beyond that troubled city's border, into small areas like Bristol and Morrisville. It's a very real fact of life around here, anymore.

Ongoing right now in Indiana, is an arrest in the murders of two young girls, out walking the remote Monon High Bridge Trail. Situational Awareness made one of the girls photograph their soon-to-be assailant, walking on the bridge, towards them. She also captured his voice, forcing them to go "down the hill". Heartbreaking. Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murders_of_Abigail_Williams_and_Liberty_German But that trail that they were walking on looked no different that the D&R trail I ride on. You have to be aware. You have to heed those senses within that say....."hold off". You have to give yourself an out.

I don't want anyone to misunderstand my own use of Situational Awareness in the areas I ride in NJ or PA. It's not at all about being some fearful, quivering paranoid worried about every encounter I come upon in my rides. Not at all. Situational Awareness just means that I quickly size up anything coming upon me in any ride, at any time. As simple as a constant look in my rear view mirror to the cars & trucks coming upon behind me as it is surveying the road way in front of my tires for nails, glass, potholes and other debris. That Situational Awareness changes when I get in an area like that northern reach of the D&R for anything ahead of me and alongside me within the woods to my right and left.

Wildlife encounters in my riding areas are not potentially fatal as they are, say in the Pacific Northwest within Cougar country; or in areas of Montana within Grizzly country. Situational Awareness is a condition that is to be adapted to the physical surroundings you are in. It's not strictly confined to just human encounters.

Be nice. Be respectful and courteous. But if ever or whenever you are in doubt......get out. Give yourself that out.

Sound advice. The best way out of a bad situation is to avoid it in the first place, but the reality is that trouble can happen anywhere and mental illness isn’t isolated to cities and bad neighborhoods, (nice guy, kept to himself, always paid his bills on time….).

 

[JedidiahStolzfus]

Sound advice. The best way out of a bad situation is to avoid it in the first place, but the reality is that trouble can happen anywhere and mental illness isn’t isolated to cities and bad neighborhoods, (nice guy, kept to himself, always paid his bills on time….).

There was a nice gentleman that lived up the street from my grandfather. Everyone in the neighborhood knew him. Always helped people out when he could. Got arrested, he was a mob hitman.

 

[6zfshdb]

Back to the OP and the original post...... I believe @6zfshdb had great, internal Situational Awareness instincts as to what he came upon on that remote trail ride. To be dismissive of that kind of encounter would be foolish. Especially today, when homeless (with any kind of human behavorial issues) can be found anywhere, alongside the mentally ill or drug addicted, it has to be taken under consideration. The northern reach of the Lock 1 portion of the Delaware Raritan Canal towpath that I often ride, ends in the outskirts of urban Trenton, NJ. Urban Trenton is, per capita, a dangerous place. That fact of the matter has to always be taken into consideration when venturing up in that area. A cinder towpath surrounded by woods and the abandoned D&R Canal. Several years ago, on this northern reach, riding alone, north to my turnaround point; I came upon a lone guy walking southbound. I thought it odd, he was wearing what appeared to be a skin-colored one-piece body suit.....until I got closer and realized it wasn't a body suit..... Long blonde, straggly hair. My first thought was meth-head. Situational Awareness kicking in. SA made me determine quite quickly he wasn't carrying any hidden weapons (lol), so I came back to him and kinda "talked" to him about putting some clothes on. I continued on back to Lock 1 and in doing so, I was concerned about any kids working their way on bikes towards him, luckily there were no kids out but there was an older couple, whom I advised of what was walking their way, a bit further up, on the trail..... Reached the local police station and reported my findings. Didn't like doing that, but the D&R Trail is not a clothing optional trail and children do bike it; as too, solitary women of all ages.

On the other side of the Delaware River, across from my homestate D&R Canal, is the D&L Canal. And I can tell you that within the reach from Morrisville, PA, south to Bristol PA, there are homeless encampments in the wood alongside the trail. Add into the mix that this canal is some 20 odd miles from Philadelphia and the crime/drugs/homeless situation that has spread beyond that troubled city's border, into small areas like Bristol and Morrisville. It's a very real fact of life around here, anymore.

I used to ride that section of the D&R with my brother who lives near Princeton. We now avoid the trail in the Trenton area for the reasons you mention. Too many seedy characters walking around. Even the northern section of the D&R around New Brunswick is getting unpleasant.

We now confine our rides on the D&R to between Bridgewater and the I-295 overpass in Lawrence Twp. We do the D&R feeder canal section along the Delaware From Frenchtown down to the I-295 bridge.

I haven't noticed any undesirable activity on the D&L but I rarely get south of Yardley.

 

[Mike TowpathTraveler]

I used to ride that section of the D&R with my brother who lives near Princeton. We now avoid the trail in the Trenton area for the reasons you mention. Too many seedy characters walking around. Even the northern section of the D&R around New Brunswick is getting unpleasant.

We now confine our rides on the D&R to between Bridgewater and the I-295 overpass in Lawrence Twp. We do the D&R feeder canal section along the Delaware From Frenchtown down to the I-295 bridge.

I haven't noticed any undesirable activity on the D&L but I rarely get south of Yardley.

@6zfshdb, the D&R section I refer to starts at Lock 1 in Bordentown and ends at Lamberton Road/Duck Island. It's only about 4 miles from both end points. At Lamberton Road, the D&R as you know, was filled in and highways built atop it. It requires alot of street running to access the D&R feeder as well as the main stem of the canal that runs up to Princeton, New Brunswick, etc. I will not do that street running to find the main stem entrance; it's just too risky.

I've even come down the feeder canal many times, staying on the NJ side until you reach Trenton; from there, I have to do a good amount of street running to get near Lamberton Road and pick up the 4 mile run on the canal to Bordentown. Again, it is risky business to do so. In the past recent 2 years or so of "social anarchy", I've avoided it all together. It's just not worth the one chance in a thousand.

Never an issue, never any "bad vibes" in picking up the D&L at the Calhoun Street Bridge-northbound. Nothing at all even around Easton. Just have to be aware around Morrisville and points south, especially when the canal gets close to nearby Route 13. I've a biking friend who lives in Bristol who has talked about his own encounters with unruly kids on the trail. And I saw the homeless situation when he and I hooked up for a ride from Morrisville to Bristol; including a middle aged woman sitting against one particular tree for the entire afternoon of our ride; passed her while heading south with him to Bristol; 3 hours later, passed her in the same spot as I was riding solo, heading back towards Trenton & then, home on the D&R to Bordentown. It's a sad, pitiful sight that makes one grateful for what we have in our own lives.

Since the explosion of meth and fentanyl, I've not been on that stretch of canal riding for way over a year now.

 

[Tars Tarkas]

I like most of what's been said about situational awareness but to me it's kind of like nitroglycerin. I mean you have be really careful how you handle it. You have to be hyper aware of your situational awareness. No one can really be fully awae of everything, Jason Bourne aside. And if you aren't careful enough, arrogance can get in the way. You can think you are so situationally aware that you're immune from danger. That can get you in big trouble.

I used to cut a lot of firewood, by myself, before cell phones, out in remote woods. One day I was felling a tree that split unexpectedly and took a weird, dangerous fall in a microsecond. It was pure luck I wasn't seriously injured. I found out later that an acquaintance of mine, a few ridges away was killed by a falling tree the same day. That was my situational awareness epiphany. I called it, "there's no way you can be careful enough". That lesson has served me well for many years. I hope you can see the parallel between that and riding through a homeless camp (or whatever). Be vigilant, but realize that there will be things you won't see.

I still cut firewood, not as much anymore, and I still ride most anywhere I want to go, albeit on an electric bike now. Age is catching up with me. The evil other side of all this is paranoia. Most of the time no one's out to get you, so have fun! Try to be safe.

TT

 

[Tars Tarkas]

The only part of the Delaware canal towpaths I've been on, by foot, is right at Washington's Crossing. It's such a simple, beautiful, and historic park! That was our destination one time and we were meandering up to the Poconos another time.

My grandfather lived in Philly most of his life. He told stories of canoeing the canals and the river, much more down stream from Trenton, where there's ocean-going traffic. As a teen he got caught in the current behind a barge once and ended up stuck there for miles. Very dangerous! Obviously, he survived.

It makes sense intellectually, but, wow, it's amazing that those little canals must have handled a big portion of our young nation's commercial traffic!

It's easy to understand what wonderful bike paths the old towpaths are.

It's sad and a shame that the homeless problem is so difficult to solve.

TT

 

[kevinmccune]

I had a nasty road rage encounter today with a motorists.
I was riding on 25 mph road occupying
the lane near an intermediate school and some jerk with a jacked up chevy pickup blew his train air horn. I was startled so I moved to my right on the buffer bike lane.
The driver slowed down to my speed 25 mph shouting obscenities. He sped up but at the next red light I caught up to him and tap his window with my Glock.
He quickly change his attitude rolled his window down and apologized saying Sorry Uncle I'm rushing to get to my job.
Around here everyone is Uncle or Aunty if they older looking than you.

I understand your frustration, always be very selective when brandishing weapon with great destructive potential, perhaps the 'steel cobra" would have have been better in this instance.

 

[Djangodog]

I had a nasty road rage encounter today with a motorists.
I was riding on 25 mph road occupying
the lane near an intermediate school and some jerk with a jacked up chevy pickup blew his train air horn. I was startled so I moved to my right on the buffer bike lane.
The driver slowed down to my speed 25 mph shouting obscenities. He sped up but at the next red light I caught up to him and tap his window with my Glock.
He quickly change his attitude rolled his window down and apologized saying Sorry Uncle I'm rushing to get to my job.
Around here everyone is Uncle or Aunty if they older looking than you.

Never pull a gun unless you are willing to use it. Hopefully, the pick-up driver learned a lesson. I’m glad that the situation didn’t escalate. Stay safe and please use discretion.

 

[6zfshdb]

Never pull a gun unless you are willing to use it. Hopefully, the pick-up driver learned a lesson. I’m glad that the situation didn’t escalate. Stay safe and please use discretion.

I'm the OP of the thread and I don't want to turn it into a handgun referendum but I feel I should express my thoughts.

I used to carry my Sig and still maintain my CCP. I stopped the practice several years ago after a series of news reports caused me to rethink the practice.

I don't mean to criticize those who do carry, since there are so many factors involved and every situation is different. I do have to ask however, what would you have done if the pickup driver also pulled a weapon? Would you shoot first? If so, you could find yourself on the loosing end of a murder trial. Even though you didn't start it. Law enforcement would look at this as a road rage incident with you as the aggressor. If you don't shoot first, you might be dead. Not a pleasant situation either way.

Lots of possibilities, too many to contemplate, but very few with a positive outcome. The legal system takes a dim view of incidents like this and prosecute aggressively these days.

Each to his own though and this is just my opinion. In my case, it's situations like this that make me leave my weapons at home.

 

[JedidiahStolzfus]

Rome, you created a situation where you placed the other person in a situation where they may have felt they needed to defend themselves. When you pulled up on him, you weren't in danger, you were angry. You introduced a weapon when there wasn't a need for one to be introduced. That wasn't wise. Yes, the guy was an asshole, but you should have just let it go rather than making a bad situation worse.

 

[Avg_Joe]

Lots of possibilities, too many to contemplate, but very few with a positive outcome. The legal system takes a dim view of incidents like this and prosecute aggressively these days.

Each to his own though and this is just my opinion. In my case, it's situations like this that make me leave my weapons at home.

+1000%. I recently did my CCH training here in NC and to be completely honest - it made me want to never carry. My intention was to be able to legally carry when going to remote areas/camping as we had some run-ins with humans in the past. I suppose that will be my sole use-case for CCH.

And I learned, at least here in NC, you brandish or wave a gun at someone, that is aggravated assault. Assuming of course the other party calls it in.

It's taken a lifetime of learning (which is ongoing), but as stated throughout this thread: situational awareness, avoidance, de-escalation work wonders. I've stopped flipping people off, saying anything, doing anything that could be assumed as aggressive, and my life is better for it. (Still working on the eye-rolling, and making progress.)

 

[ruffruff]

I'm a big hunter/archery guy and I always think in the back of my mind I should get my CCP.
But then I think, if I were to ever use it....even if I'm 100% in the right, it's gonna ruin my day.

 

[JedidiahStolzfus]

I'm a big hunter/archery guy and I always think in the back of my mind I should get my CCP.
But then I think, if I were to ever use it....even if I'm 100% in the right, it's gonna ruin my day.

It could ruin your day not having it too. Goes both ways.

 

[ruffruff]

It could ruin your day not having it too. Goes both ways.

Yep I get that.

And one more comment,
Rome, I like the driver's thinking! "I'm late for work so I'm going to slow down and accost a biker, because that will get me to work on time!"

 

[JedidiahStolzfus]

Rome, I hope you don't get upset and feel that everyone is beating up on you about this. My feeling is that you were angry, it happens, but you need to control that anger and don't escalate the situation. As a responsible gun owner, you want to avoid the conflict and only use a firearm when there is no other option. Confronting jackwads at intersections, smacking mirrors and yelling at drivers isn't going to do anything. The people that do s*it like what you experience, and those that damage another's car are the problems. If someone does a biker rider wrong, they have no right to damage the vehicle in return. No reason to escalate the situation and make it worse.

Always remember, your goal is to get to your destination safely for your own well being as well as your family's. They want you home at the end of the day.

 

[tomjasz]

I caught up to him and tap his window with my Glock.

Brandishing is grounds for losing a permit to carry. And is really pretty stupid. And on top of it you’re usually pretty stoned. That makes your move undefensable.

 

[Kayakguy]

Rome, I hope you don't get upset and feel that everyone is beating up on you about this. My feeling is that you were angry, it happens, but you need to control that anger and don't escalate the situation. As a responsible gun owner, you want to avoid the conflict and only use a firearm when there is no other option. Confronting jackwads at intersections, smacking mirrors and yelling at drivers isn't going to do anything. The people that do s*it like what you experience, and those that damage another's car are the problems. If someone does a biker rider wrong, they have no right to damage the vehicle in return. No reason to escalate the situation and make it worse.

Always remember, your goal is to get to your destination safely for your own well being as well as your family's. They want you home at the end of the day.

In all my 85 years, I have never suffered any loss or harm by NOT carrying.