What Are We Paying For?

I can afford to buy whatever I like within reason... But I agree, these things are over priced for what you get.
Though my trousers do get a bit tight when I look at the new Yamaha YDX 👍
 
reed scott said:
I maintain that is because there is 30 or 40%, or more, padded into the production costs ... going somewhere. After all we ARE talking about a command-and-control economy producing all these goods.
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I'd be interested to know better than I do how manufacturing business works in the communist state of China. They allow for low wages and everything is controlled by the party.

I do know a little about manufacturing in the US, and profit margins selling business to business. Consumer goods like bikes is a whole different world. A factory contracted by a company like Trek wouldn't have a markup of more than 100% over cost, in a western factory. More like 65% over cost. An eastern factory? And what does Trek markup to the dealer? I could see a Chinese state controlled factory having a markup upwards to 200%, Trek marking up an additional 100 to 200% and the dealer marking up 30 to 50%. Its the first markup that could get really wild. A mainstream company like Trek will have to spec good components from Shimano, Avid, RockShox, Sram, Fox. Then the drive! Has to have a quality drive from Bosch, Brose, Yamaha. Markup on top of markup. I've done these type of costs spreadsheets, it's a fairly deep rabbit hole. I don't like it, but I can see how a price can easily climb way north of 5k. I'm actually surprised we can get a really good ebike from a major brand in the $2.5 to 4k range.
 
I'm sure most everyone here knows about cost/benefits and the concept of diminishing returns. I always thought it was funny to see a 50 lb overweight guy at the LBS, willing to spend and extra $1,000 on a bicycle to save 2 pounds, lol. I was an engineer so I'm very value oriented, some would say cheap. I'm happy with my 2 e-bikes which cost about $1,500 each. They exceed my needs. But I also know that half our our economy is based on wants, not needs. Hence the $1,000 iphone, $100,000 range rovers, etc.

I would be very hesitant to spend over $2,500 on an e-bike today as the technology is changing so fast. But I also know that cars/boats/motorcycles and now e-bikes ... they are like catnip to men. For me, I'm very happy with the cost/benefits of my $1,500 e-bikes
 
phoenixtoohot said:
I'm sure most everyone here knows about cost/benefits and the concept of diminishing returns. I always thought it was funny to see a 50 lb overweight guy at the LBS, willing to spend and extra $1,000 on a bicycle to save 2 pounds, lol. I was an engineer so I'm very value oriented, some would say cheap. I'm happy with my 2 e-bikes which cost about $1,500 each. They exceed my needs. But I also know that half our our economy is based on wants, not needs. Hence the $1,000 iphone, $100,000 range rovers, etc.

I would be very hesitant to spend over $2,500 on an e-bike today as the technology is changing so fast. But I also know that cars/boats/motorcycles and now e-bikes ... they are like catnip to men. For me, I'm very happy with the cost/benefits of my $1,500 e-bikes
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I had the coolest most amazing boat you ever did see that I paid $40k for about 12 years ago. I got out of it 3 years later and recouped half of my original outlay. And was glad for it. 😓
 
phoenixtoohot said:
I'm sure most everyone here knows about cost/benefits and the concept of diminishing returns. I always thought it was funny to see a 50 lb overweight guy at the LBS, willing to spend and extra $1,000 on a bicycle to save 2 pounds, lol. I was an engineer so I'm very value oriented, some would say cheap. I'm happy with my 2 e-bikes which cost about $1,500 each. They exceed my needs. But I also know that half our our economy is based on wants, not needs. Hence the $1,000 iphone, $100,000 range rovers, etc.

I would be very hesitant to spend over $2,500 on an e-bike today as the technology is changing so fast. But I also know that cars/boats/motorcycles and now e-bikes ... they are like catnip to men. For me, I'm very happy with the cost/benefits of my $1,500 e-bikes
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I'm very satisfied with my $1900 CAD bike after the 1st year now. That's like a $1500 USD bike. Nothing broken that wasn't my fault including small shipping damage that I let go.
If I rode in a mountainous area or somewhere that the speed limits are different I'd need a different type of bike that would cost more. I notice a slight degradation of battery, but after using it in freezing weather for months I can't complain. Looks like I could get 3 more years without major expenses. Less than $2 a day, I figure, including planned-for replacement parts.

When I read about the problems people have with the fancy bikes and the bike shops I'm glad I don't have to deal with them. I just need to buy a new part if something breaks.
 
reed scott said:
Hardly. It costs what people are willing to pay. Not what it is worth. In my LIFE I have not seen such mass hysteria. It's a wonderful product. I am buying one, maybe two, myself. But I literally have no responsibilities left in life. I'm still not going to dump top top dollar into one of these things. I just can't be that foolish.
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I guess you didn’t have trouble finding toilet paper or sanitizing wipes? I consider my eBikes a quality of life improvement device. Riding 2,500+ a year should be doing something.
 
reed scott said:
I had the coolest most amazing boat you ever did see that I paid $40k for about 12 years ago. I got out of it 3 years later and recouped half of my original outlay. And was glad for it. 😓
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My friend said the day he brought his new class a motorhome home was the second happiest day of his life. The absolute happiest day was a few years later when he sold it for half of what he paid...
 
I've lost boat loads of money on boats! The only toy I've done well with financially is a Harley.

As for technology, there can be too much of a good thing. Too costly! You can't win the tech race:oops:

A man was walking down the street with two suitcases when a stranger came up and asked, "Have you got the time?" The man put down the suitcases and looked at his wristwatch and said, "It's exactly five-forty six and fifty point six seconds and the barometric pressure is 30.06 and rising and if you'd like to see where we are by satellite positioning, I can show you that too, or get onto the Internet, check your e-mail, make a long distance call, send a fax. It's also a pager and it plays recorded books and it receives FM."
"That's amazing. I've got to have that watch. I'll pay you ten thousand for that." "No, it's not ready for sale yet. I'm the inventor. I'm still working out the bugs. I haven't got it all programmed yet, it's not completely voice-activated." "I've got to buy that watch. Fifteen thousand. Twenty." "Well, okay." He takes off the watch and the stranger walks away with it and the guy holds up the suitcases. "Don't you want the batteries?"
 
Art Deco said:
My friend said the day he brought his new class a motorhome home was the second happiest day of his life. The absolute happiest day was a few years later when he sold it for half of what he paid...
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They often say the same about owning a boat...🤣

Haven't heard that in regards to an ebike...Pay what you're comfortable with then ride 'em like you stole 'em!...😎
 
J.R. said:
I've lost boat loads of money on boats! The only toy I've done well with financially is a Harley.

As for technology, there can be too much of a good thing. Too costly! You can't win the tech race:oops:

A man was walking down the street with two suitcases when a stranger came up and asked, "Have you got the time?" The man put down the suitcases and looked at his wristwatch and said, "It's exactly five-forty six and fifty point six seconds and the barometric pressure is 30.06 and rising and if you'd like to see where we are by satellite positioning, I can show you that too, or get onto the Internet, check your e-mail, make a long distance call, send a fax. It's also a pager and it plays recorded books and it receives FM."
"That's amazing. I've got to have that watch. I'll pay you ten thousand for that." "No, it's not ready for sale yet. I'm the inventor. I'm still working out the bugs. I haven't got it all programmed yet, it's not completely voice-activated." "I've got to buy that watch. Fifteen thousand. Twenty." "Well, okay." He takes off the watch and the stranger walks away with it and the guy holds up the suitcases. "Don't you want the batteries?"
Click to expand...

Electronic derailleur anyone?
 
My cheap and heavy bike has cheap wheels by JoyTech. When I received the bike the front wheel was way over-tightened so I loosed it up a bit.
I always enjoy comparing how my bike glides downhill compared to the skinny road bikes. It's not been outdone yet. Maybe the cheap 2.1" Kenda tires help :)
 
reed scott said:
I had the coolest most amazing boat you ever did see that I paid $40k for about 12 years ago.

I got out of it 3 years later and recouped half of my original outlay. And was glad for it. 😓
Click to expand...

Yep, As the old saying goes, the two happiest or best days of a boater’s life are the day they buy a boat and the day they sell it! ;)

The second widely-used saying about boats is that they are “holes in the water, into which you throw money”
 
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phoenixtoohot said:
You are kidding, right? I never know these days in our hyper PC new normal.
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You get that quote was pretty misogynistic, right? We're a better forum than that. Still, it's been deleted so let's move on.

Interesting thread nonetheless. My ebike cost to the dollar what I sold my last car for.

The car could seat 5 adults and their luggage, sit as 110 comfortably, and had a range of 750 km.

My ebike seats one adult, cuts out support at 25 km/h and has a range of 150 km. Plus you get wet when it rains.

The car made me miserable on my commute, the bike brings me joy every morning and afternoon.

It doesn't take much to see the trickle on economic benefits either: one less car congesting the roads, public health and environmental savings. Society is pocketing those savings.

The point has been made here already that the law of diminishing returns kicks in with ebikes, like in all things. A $15k car provides essentially the same functionality as a $500k car. It just won't stroke your ego as much. If you want bleeding edge product you pay the premium. For the rest of us there's plenty of reasonably priced options on the market from $1k up.
 
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