Watt Wagons Ultimate Commuter 2 rides 175 miles now 1075 miles, more than 2 rides

Another item I forget to post about is the lack of gear indicator in the Kindernay, bigger deal than I thought. I need it for taking off in th correct gear, once riding not an issue, I can tell by cadence and pressure on the pedals (or lack of pressure) I automatically push the downshift side for 3 notches before taking off , if I do this with time I shift all the down to easiest pedaling and go up two full pushes or 6 speeds and then take off in level 2 o sometimes level 3. Get a little momentum and sometimes hit the throttle to finish my position in the saddle and maybe adjust something, and then up the gears till the the last gear like a car with a manual transmission.
I re-read your post but have a hard time picturing it so I know I'm missing something. Do you always shift the Kindernay 3 gears at a time?
 
The lever when you push it fully on either side will click 3 times shifting 3 gears. When stopped you can shift all you like up or down

for example on one your speed tests you stop and take a break. Your lovely wife comes along and moves the and possibly shifts it without you knowing, you were in top gear which one now? I am go8ng down the trail I don’t think which gear I am on top of that I decide this a nice spot to stop and check out the snake on the trail.,then eat some fruit. Time to head on what gear am I in ? No clue , no memory. shift either all the way up or down then decide which gear you want, say 7. From all the way down, 2 full press gets me 6 and a click more gets me to seven. Power level 2 and off I go. You aren’t supposed to throttle in high gears at take off (break drive train). and throttling in low gears is hard to control because the throttle comes on too quick, hard to feather properly for me.

when riding usually 1 gear at a time sometimes 2 ona rare occasions may do 3 depends on the hill, timing etc. the bike has power, pretty much can go up any hill I have on my area in level 2, just have to pedal harder so gear shifting helps and is done but any ”mistake” in gear choice almost always can be covered by rhe shear power of the bike once moving.
 
Ahh, that clears it up in my mind. Thanks for taking the time to explain.

Edit: It sounds nice, I can imagine one day being smooth with that without thinking about it.
 
Up to about 500 miles , honestly like the bike better each ride never believed people when they say that til now.

lowered the pressure to 40 lbs per tire , seems slightly , slightly sluggish in comparison but in the range of my mind could be making it up.… i have an idea,more riding to test, I am up for it and will report back…:)
What were your tires at? I have the UC Commuter and been putting tires at 40. I'll have to try maximizing them to see the impact.
 
Yeah other than the two shifters on both sides of the handlebar thing, the lack of a gear indicator is the other sour spot with the Kindernay for me.
I've gotten used to not having the indicator by feel. I stopped using the throttle when I start, or at low speeds, as it felt like I was abusing the gears. So when I pedal, I can quickly ascertain the proper gear. If I'm slightly low geared (high resistance), I just pedal more until out of that range. If when shifting, I can feel the torque, I know I still have at least one more gear up I can go. If I shift and I feel nothing, I'm probably at the 14th gear (maybe 13 on a decline).
 
My tires were at 50lbs since the sidewall said 55. Pushkar stated too high with the Tanus Armor inserts.I think I feel a very slight sluggishness but very so slight.

West’s post on the throttle and gear use above is 100% correct, my issue is we compromise by not using the throttle for take off , I would like this improved someday
 
mileage is up to 650 or so.

ordered 1 med diamond and 1 med semi step through today, same build as mine, less then 30 days.

But let me tell a short story . Ordered my wife’s retirement vehicle , Mercedoes SUV , told 6 weeks then 2 months as we put the order in. 2 months later to the day (last Monday)we get a call from the dealer excited to go pick up the SUV, answer the phone and told it is delayed! you did not know til that day that it was due that it was delayed? 2 times, same dealer. the other was earlier before we ordered they said they made dealer trade for a very similar vehicle but at the last moment they said the other dealer cancelled their trade and we lost that car, we evenpaid the down payment deposit…

so I say less then 30 days with 1 eye wide open, please help me count lol
 
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I've gotten used to not having the indicator by feel. I stopped using the throttle when I start, or at low speeds, as it felt like I was abusing the gears. So when I pedal, I can quickly ascertain the proper gear. If I'm slightly low geared (high resistance), I just pedal more until out of that range. If when shifting, I can feel the torque, I know I still have at least one more gear up I can go. If I shift and I feel nothing, I'm probably at the 14th gear (maybe 13 on a decline).
"If I'm slightly low geared (high resistance), I just pedal more until out of that range."

Are you sure you got your verbiage correct here?
 
Opimax, congrats on your new bike orders. A 30 day build is awesome.
I'm still waiting for Pushkar to get some prices so he can give me a price on the FS UC Commuter Pro Titanium. Hopefully, I'll get that information soon.
 
Deacon, I want to borrow your FS but not own it. If I was dead set on FS I would be happy to get the same bike. Since i haven’t ridden a FS bike I don’t know what I am missing except on paper the additional maintenance. I don’t even repair flats so I would have to get a shop to do the extra service. Probably not in my best interest,

I don’t know how how much my bikes cost yet, haven’t asked.trying to keep it under 10g each with additional batteries chargers and maybe a 2nd wheel set to share
 
I keep threteneing myself to get a stand and start doing more than I have. I can work on a bike more than the effort I make but long ago told myself I want to ride not build or repair. I was a computer tech starting in the 80s, worked on cars, fix anything I can at home, rebuild speakers , etc.

I will be moving the bikes to the garage from house once the 3rd bay is available this summer, I may put some effort to setting up a little area . If some small repairs keep my riding more i at cave in on this.

my wife will have the same bike in a medium. I am really between sizes so using her bike will be a great spare and petty available for me too

my plan has always been find a good local shop and make friends.

I have found a shop who will work on my bikes for flat rate which is all I can ask. Also maybe the bike gods will finally smile on me and these bikes will at least slightly reliable or even better
 
I have found a situation with this bike I would like to report

i was heading down the road home when i decided to test the speed that day. I checked traffic, clear and started pedaling hard and fast….look down I am at 45mph! Damn I am impressed and then some .while looking i notice the the power meter pegged at 1600 watts and this where I started wondering.

the speedometer goes to 60 mph and the power meter goes to 1600. I was doing 45 f_ing mph (FAST) !!! and I was using 2300 watts! Was I supposed to be able toget to 60 with 1600 watts and supply the rest myself according to Bafang? Not going to happen. Luckily Watt Wagon seems to know I wouldn’t be able to do that and has supplied enough power to get to 45, dont think 60 is doable.

but then another thought since the gauge goes to 1600 watts how do I know I am getting 2300? What if I am only getting 2299 or even 2298? I might be able to get to 45.0000000000000000001 mph with the missing watt

What if I am getting 2301? My ego will be crushed that I can’t hit 45 without the extra free power? I will never know the answers with this mis matched display scale…and is 2300 watts going to break the display by constantly pegging the display when it can’t go higher?


please note I am not allowed to ride today causing poor attempts at humor here :)
 
Yesterday I went for a l o n g ride….I started out staying in level 2 on purpose with ” I am here to ride” attitude so after a quick stop for rain I braved on…. Going along having my standard stops for breaks and fruit. At about 30 miles i am thinking maybe 45 miles for the 1st battery, looks like petty good compared 30-35 in last rides. Now come a few hills, May suck some battery though and harder hit at my 45 mile goal mile. At mile 39+ bigger hill, hold down + and hit power while in level 4 I think from eco. About 2 strokes and loud pop or bang noise and spinning pedals and no go. I looked down and saw the belt next to a gear I hadnt seen.

1st thought is Kindernay broke apart and the belt was around a gear that was supposed to fit over the other gear still on the Kindernay. No, after looking closely the belt “just” popped off. Either way I am not in a good place. I have a great back up system , call my wife and she always comes and picks me and my bike up in the van.

But let’s look a this 1st. Start trying to put the belt on like a regular chain , get it started and then pedal. Got it 1/2 way on and noticed there is a groove it rides in and I need to get the belt over the groove and fully in place. played with th that for a while , no luck. I have a pretty useless back so turning the bike over to work on it is not a fun thing but either try or make the call and end the day. I put my helmet over the display and managed to get it over as long as I leaned on it slightly to keep it from falling, helmets are not flat.

I have a multi tool I carry, that is it. Now I am looking at the drive train for real knowing I am going to have to move the wheel and tensioning assembly to get the belt on. I released the wheel 1st but couldn’t get the belt on , moved to the tensioning set up, loosened everything , including a nut that was one one the 3 sizes on that arm of the tool and I was able to reach the nut with the right angle , booth surprised me and made me happy. After realizing that I was turning 1 screw backwards and I was moving the mechanism to to tighten and instead of loosening I was good, belt on.. I tightened everything in the reverse order and even aligned the wheel a little better in the center.

at this point I turned around to head home , not confident my 1st encounter with a belt , it could pop off again, albeit for the same reason it popped the 1st time and I don’t know what that was or just because it looks right it may not be. Start out slowly but getting faster with more confidence. by about 5 miles from home very dark clouds . At this point i In the 30s for sprints trying but loosing the rain battle. Arrive home completely drenched, completely! But I have made it home with little issue from the belt.

the good news here is not that I had an issue but I was able to move on after having it

@pushkar there seems to be a slight grinding if I pedal but not enough to put pressure on the pedal, almost sounds/feels tight but I could be just noticing since I am paying extra attn to the drive train currently, any thoughts?
 
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I'm interested to hear if anyone else has had their belt slip off. I hadn't thought about how difficult (compared to a cassette and chain) it is to put the belt back on.
You're slowly becoming a bicycle mechanic through necessity. :)
 
@pushkar there seems to be a slight grinding if I pedal but not enough to put pressure on the pedal, almost sounds/feels tight but I could be just noticing since I am paying extra attn to the drive train currently, any thoughts?

Where do you hear / feel the grinding please? Can you replicate it on throttle ?

When you get a chance, please make sure the wheel is aligned correctly - another way of saying that the beltline should to be as straight as you can get it. If the wheel is off to one side, that may cause some grinding of the belt on the cogs too.
 
On the seat post, I have had them for years and never adjusted one properly. It got more this way when I moved it forward to get closer to the handlebars and tightened up the sag. I am about 195 -200 lbs plus a water bag of 1.5 liters .

i would like to get the handle bars raised and revisit this after readjusting. I tend to agree the weight recommendation seem off to me also.

nature, music , gorgeous world class 100 mile trail, long ride? don’t even notice, retired, everyday is Saturday
My thoughts from my first rides

I like the bike. I went 102 miles on the 2nd ride thought I was doing 80. It exhumes quality. It is fast, I hit mid 30s on a couple speed tests while riding. It is powerful! Hills are no longer taken into consideration.1 spot on my ride at 36 miles are some steep hills . Other ebikes will go up but take effort , no real effort needed with this bike.this was my current turn around point for 72 mile trip because of the effort and battery use. No longer .

I have a few nit picks which I would change. I still would like a built in battery frame styled bike when it is made.

the front shock is fancy probably over kill for me but seems to give a nice ride on flat surfaces

the brakes are Magura 7s probably over kill but I can appreciate good brakes, I think I would keep them

Kindernay shifting works well for me , thought I would be compromising but no, I like it a lot. If the electronic ever becomes available I would upgrade

I read some on the possible adjusting of power with external wire and such. I think I old like to try some other people versions postted for even smoother power delivery. I would like the pedal assit to come on a little earlier I think

The throttle is not smooth at all times, some thing I can live with but would pay extra for improved performance. I am not a big throttle user so again not a major issue.

I think I would rather access the torque sensor and adjust for a lighter pedal touch. Anyone have a Stromer with the torque sensor adjustment ? or any other bike with this adjustment? I want to feel like I am on slight decline . There is plenty of power , just too much pressure required on the pedals for my taste.

i would like another gear on the top end, I keep pushing the gear shift even though I am in the top gear, maybe another cog
in the drive train? I am not trying to go faster but pedal slower at the same speed. i start clown pedaling earlier then others I believe

I ran out of 3 batteries after 102 miles or so , need a little more range . I think I can carry more batteries weight wise on the rack but bigger batteries are always appreciated, :) :). The batteries fit my bags perfectly upside down in the bottom leaving a nice flat surface for clothes and fruit

i would order less aggressive pedal to save my shoes

the bike is not loud at all exceeded my expectations

it didn’t come with a bell, lights so no comments on them but I think they will added.

the bike feels nimble to me, more so then my other bikes , feel the weight even less when moving.

my seat is bottoming out on the Kinetic seat post, needs adjustment ?

the fan on the 10 amp charger is louder then normal.work great though.

I have not read any manuals yet , need to learn Bafang display and front shock adjustment

Last comment is the motor has plastic guards with tabs to grab them on each side which seem like shipping protectors, should they be pulled off?

I haven’t spoken with Pushkar so keep this in mind , he hasn’t seen my thoughts yet



anyone in Atlanta wants to test ride contact me
Nice reports, real-world information and wonderful photos.
Regarding your comments:
WW makes 3 models (1 out of stock) with an internal battery, all carbon.
Casting a battery compartment into the frame would be a possibility - if cost was no option. I'd talk to these folks about building that section and welding it in as the downtube for such a build https://www.forcebeyond.com/titanium-casting/
The problem is O2. Welding requires the inside and outside area of the weld must be saturated in an inert gas. Better you read up on it than I bore you. Once you had the design casting, it would be a $3k+ part and forming from Ti plate would be twice as expensive, due to all the welding.
Use hybrid material tech, making the downtube casting from Carbon Fiber is a possibility that's less demanding to duplicate, lighter and less costly. But contrary to what I used to believe, the external DP6 battery is a small price to pay for having a Ti frame.
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The KINEKT? Love mine. Had to purchase lighter springs and the 'Control Knob' bolt though. Still not perfect, I changed to one medium/ one light spring - as others have recommended. A few adjustments - stopping every time it felt unsatisfactory - and plenty of rough terrain later, and it's great. Here's the vid on the site; shows how to set everything up. https://cirruscycles.com/pages/videos
My take: Yours came with two 150 - 200lb springs (check the dash marks for the color code).
That would mean you are out at the edge of the adjustment zone, on the cusp. Better to be in the sweet spot.
Perhaps swapping one spring out for a 200 - 260lb - moving you to the 175 - 230lb range? Then adjust halfway tight. Voila !!!
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I'm working up a Legacy build. Can I ask a couple things?
Did you order the unlimited controller option?
Is your machine a 750 or 1000w?
Can't one set the amount of 'pedal assist %' allocated to each 'level' through the (display) sub-menu, then on the home menu choose the 'level', which you pre-set to those 1 - 100% values ? Like 'level 1 = 20%'; 'Level 2 = 30%' and so on?
Does bike require a harness and laptop to access setting features - as with Grin's controllers? Or are you saying there's an actual lag from pedal pressure to motor input?
How does that fork perform over bumps and ruts?
I certainly appreciate a knowledgeable owner taking the time to publish their experience.

Please keep up the good work,

Fn'F
 
"If I'm slightly low geared (high resistance), I just pedal more until out of that range."

Are you sure you got your verbiage correct here?
No, for the life of me this always confused me. The terms seem very backwards how we use it and that's why I added the descriptor but I think you understand my mental block 😜
 
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