Wanted volunteers: Tributes for Custom Quiet Gears for Ultra

[pushkar]

OK, I believe we are ready to take the next steps on the quiet gears project.

How will this go? What are the timelines?

1. We are working on a production timeline 3-6 month timeline starting May 1st.
2. First set of gears will be delivered in 75 days from May 1st.
3. Testing for the rest of the time and providing feedback.
4. Our assumption is that Metal and PEEK will be very similar in terms of noise if built right.
5. We will provide the picture of the gears or identify what areas are being switched - so you can decide.

What will you get ? What is the cost?
You will get a unique set of gears - either PEEK or Custom Metal. Both will be quiet - (higher tolerance)

1. Cost of gear sets (we will provide 3 gears) is $450 + shipping from Asia
   • Using PEEK will limit the overall wattage you can push through the motor. We believe it can take only up to 1500W.
   • Using Higher tolerance metal gears will actually allow you to push more wattage through the motor
   • "Choose wisely, You must" - Yoda
2. Cost of quieter motor enclosure (this will replace the current case / shell) - $500 + shipping from Asia
   • Used in conjunction with Metal gears, this will probably be the best setup for long term usage.
   • Used in conjunction with PEEK will make this super quiet - but wattage will be limited to 1400-1500W. Throttle will be limited to 750W.

What we are looking for ?

1. 5-10 riders who own a Bafang ultra, (and ideally the Archon X1 controller), who would want to put the gears in their motors, or would want to put the current gears in the new enclosure, and provide us feedback
2. Feedback needs to incorporate sound measurements (check out some DB meters from amazon) on gears, motor whine and change in overall motor noise, "feel" for when the gears engage (probably quicker).
3. Qualitative feedback on ride quality, motor response under different riding conditions (flats, inclines, singletrack, weather etc).
4. Posting feedback on public forum is ok.
5. Please read the disclaimers before "volunteering as tributes "

Disclaimers

1. This will void your existing motor warranty.
2. There will be noticeable noise reduction, but we wont be able to defy physics.
3. Timelines are provided by manufacturer - but with everything going on, we may epect some slippage.
4. This is a financial commitment and carries risk - Not all gear styles will work and there may be failures.
5. We will try to build the strongest we can but we cannot warranty the gears.

 

[pennybags]

 

[pushkar]

View attachment 84764

ha ha. Ha ha.

 

[pushkar]

Pinging @Ebiker33 , @Bubba zanetti , @Weaselander , @TDA78 , @Merle Nelson, @AHicks

 

[BruceBrown]

Knowing the risks as you've described them, could there be additional downsides to this on a Hydra (or other full suspension bike) that is ridden harder than a commuter? Tire noise will be higher, is that enough to drown out motor noise?

I want to determine how big an issue I consider noise to be on my Hydra when it arrives before saying for sure. I'm already definitely in on the other full-suspension project.

 

[pushkar]

Tbh, i would recommend metal gears for the ultra - with better external casing. For anything above 1400W, metal is the only one that will work consistently.

 

[Zachdds]

How loud is the motor? This is a seemingly tough sell for me. $1000 to void the warranty and get what is hopefully a small decrease in noise.

I hope it works out and changes the ebike world, but that seems pretty expensive for what is being sold as a small sound savings.

 

[pushkar]

How loud is the motor? This is a seemingly tough sell for me. $1000 to void the warranty and get what is hopefully a small decrease in noise.

I hope it works out and changes the ebike world, but that seems pretty expensive for what is being sold as a small sound savings.

These are low volume custom CNC parts. By no means will this be production cost.

Also - part of this is learning what makes it loud / quiet so we can build the right motor from the ground up rather than trying to fix the motor post production.

 

[Cuz Vinny]

Personally I don’t think the Ultra is that loud that I’d want to spend that kind of money. I’d rather invest it in a nice set of Carbon wheels or better suspension fork.

 

[Zachdds]

I can completely understand your wanting to get the info for a future improvements/new motor, but I cannot understand what the draw is for the end user. That is an expensive upgrade and comparing pros vs cons is loss of warranty vs slight noise improvement.

But to each there own. I hope you get all the testing needed to make the best motor in the world.

 

[Jayaznpride]

I'm still new to the ebike world and waiting on getting my first electric ebike. I would seriously consider this option if my motor was out of warranty.

 

[Leon S. Kennedy]

How difficult is it to change out the motor enclosure? Is there a video showing the entire process?

 

[AHicks]

My thought is, if this isn't an attempt at quieting, what is the goal here?

I think 450. for a custom set of gears is fair, but my thought is Bafang had a quiet motor with just one plastic/composite/whatever you want to call it gear. Why go to the expense of 3 gears for an unknown outcome? Why not try one composite gear, that would replicate the original composite Bafang gear as close as possible, and test that? THEN, if that were not quiet enough, then change to the 3 composite gear system.

I'm willing to pull my motor down and install something experimental, but to pay 450 on top of that seems a bit excessive here. Especially when there's no history on the new parts. That's me though. Others may have different opinions.

And lets not forget that impossible to find anywhere case gasket..... -Al

 

[EMGX]

My thought is, if this isn't an attempt at quieting, what is the goal here?

I think 450. for a custom set of gears is fair, but my thought is Bafang had a quiet motor with just one plastic/composite/whatever you want to call it gear. Why go to the expense of 3 gears for an unknown outcome? Why not try one composite gear, that would replicate the original composite Bafang gear as close as possible, and test that? THEN, if that were not quiet enough, then change to the 3 composite gear system.

I'm willing to pull my motor down and install something experimental, but to pay 450 on top of that seems a bit excessive here. Especially when there's no history on the new parts. That's me though. Others may have different opinions.

And lets not forget that impossible to find anywhere case gasket..... -Al

I don't have a dog in the fight but for curiosity sake, is this the gear in question?

If it is, the steel version price is $26.50. If there was a plastic version originally and it works well within limitations that are acceptable to an ultra owner, then it seems strange that that gear can't be produced again, probably at a similar price in whatever the original material was. Maybe won't be as durable or long lasting - how hard is it to replace? Why would anyone pay a business's R&D cost for a different gear with no guarantee of performance and void their warranty at the same time, the steel gear noise is that bad?

 

[scrambler]

I don't have a dog in the fight but for curiosity sake, is this the gear in question?

View attachment 84793

If it is, the steel version price is $26.50. If there was a plastic version originally and it works well within limitations that are acceptable to an ultra owner, then it seems strange that that gear can't be produced again, probably at a similar price in whatever the original material was. Maybe won't be as durable or long lasting - how hard is it to replace? Why would anyone pay a business's R&D cost for a different gear with no guarantee of performance and void their warranty at the same time, the steel gear noise is that bad?

This is not about making the same gear.
This is about making a new version with much higher dimensional precision than then original, so it could be quieter.

 

[AHicks]

I don't have a dog in the fight but for curiosity sake, is this the gear in question?

View attachment 84793

If it is, the steel version price is $26.50. If there was a plastic version originally and it works well within limitations that are acceptable to an ultra owner, then it seems strange that that gear can't be produced again, probably at a similar price in whatever the original material was. Maybe won't be as durable or long lasting - how hard is it to replace? Why would anyone pay a business's R&D cost for a different gear with no guarantee of performance and void their warranty at the same time, the steel gear noise is that bad?

Steel gear noise is noticeable when riding a quiet trail, but not what I would call bad. It's something I would pay a reasonable premium to get rid of for sure though... -Al

 

[AHicks]

This is not about making the same gear.
This is about making a new version with much higher dimensional precision than then original, so it could be quieter.

I'd be fine with the original Bafang gear if we could come up with something that was as durable and quiet. I have no basic need to do it "better". I'm fine with good enough!

 

[pushkar]

I'd be fine with the original Bafang gear if we could come up with something that was as durable and quiet. I have no basic need to do it "better". I'm fine with good enough!

Durable and quiet leads to tighter tolerance on gears and case. Going with PEEK on the current gear will not be durable unless we limit the amount of watts.

 

[greeno]

I can see why Pushkar is pursuing this especially if he is eventually going to offer up his own motors. Hmm would I buy a stock Bafang g510 or purchase a modified to a higher tolerance motor housing with (3) higher tollerance gears in it? Ive had the "Stock" motor now for about 6 mos with the upgraded controller and I have definetly put it through it's paces and it seems fine. Makes bit of noise when in a higher gear climbing but honestly I don't even notice it. Unless the price was somewhat comparable to a regular motor I probably wouldn't go with the premium edition.
Maybe all the other companies that use this particular motor would go through WW and build with his motor THEN it makes a world of sense to R&D this process. Would i personally try this mod out on my motor, nope. Would I help a nice guy out with feedback and install a already modified motor for free on my bike and ride it for a few months, absolutely.

I do my own R&D everyday when I ride, tweaking here or there trying different components or parts to fine tune my ride.
Would I pay to do it for someone else, nah.
Test pilots get compensated for their services they don't pay to do it.
Back in the 80's/90's I used to professionally race road bikes and EVERYTHING I used was given to me plus some. We tried out custom frames, tires components etc and gave our opinions sometimes much to the dislike of certain sponsors on occasion.

I'm sure there are others out there willing to go the extra mile and pay to do it. I hope so because someone will have to to get to the end game.

Best of luck my friend.

 

[AHicks]

Durable and quiet leads to tighter tolerance on gears and case. Going with PEEK on the current gear will not be durable unless we limit the amount of watts.

Absolutely! From where I'm sitting limiting the watts would be fine. I think 1600 is WAY over the top for most of us. I'd be a very happy camper with a quiet gear able to handle 15-1600w. Buy the composite gear with the understanding that it's VERY possible to blow it when abused. No need to prove it! For those that want to play with big power increases, use/stay with the metal gear and try to tear that up..... -Al