Wallke W-PAS 50% regeneration?

[camdon44]

I am looking at the Wallke X-3 Pro. Looks like a pretty nice bike for the money $1599 with the discount. Full suspension folding 26" Fat Tire with 750 watt hub drive. Not too bad 14AH battery. They list regeneration capabilities with what they call W-PAS. They claim to get 50% more mileage per charge with this system. I am skeptical as I have heard it is only possible to get about 5% with any regeneration system. Has anyone out there experienced what type of distance these bikes get? They claim up to 60 miles with PAS... Hard to believe.
Thanks, Don

 

[AHicks]

First, 50% more mileage due to regeneration is.......not true. That's pretty "creative" add copy by somebody with no clue. If you were able to get 5%, that would be outstanding and not very likely. Regen is great for those living in the hills where it will help hold a bike from getting too fast going down big hills without riding the brakes. Kinda like an engine braking in a car or PU. Flat landers could care less about regen....

An experienced rider that's riding at relatively low speeds (say 10mph) on level ground with little/no wind, temps above 50f, while using PAS 1 and providing at least SOME of the required power, they might get 60 miles. Average would likely be something closer to 25 or 30 miles, maybe a little better.

 

[LGC]

I've only got about 20 miles on the bike so far. Working on a write up

Here's some images of my tweaked X3 Pro:

 

[camdon44]

Thanks for the response. I will be very interested in your impressions. Is this your first ebike? I have about 1500 miles on my first ebike and my wife has the same bike with about half that. We are both enthusiasts. Ours are 20 inch fat tire folding bikes. As you can see from my post and AHicks post, we are both skeptical about the range that is claimed... Nice mirror by the way!!

 

[LGC]

Yes, this my first foray into eBikes. The last time that I looked at an eBike, was at a brick and mortar and their inhouse brand started at $3K.

With what's going on in the world right now (self isolation), I recently pulled my big box mountain bike off of the wall (where its been hanging for the last 12 yrs.) and brought it back up to being usable; it's a Hyper something or the other (I tore off the stickers a long time ago) and sits on 24" wheels. I'm all of 5'4", so the Hyper felt like the right size for my inseam. But I came to realize that my legs felt confined. So I started to research the 26" platform.

I was still targeting something from Walmart, either the Hyper Carbon X or a Mongoose fat tire; which lead me to Amazon, to get some in depth reviews on the two bikes. These two searches influenced my YouTube recommendations to contain 1st the Lectric XP, then the Rattan Fat Bear Plus. The dual suspension of the Rattan really caught my eye and the $1.5K price tag was within my grasp.

My overall goal was to find a riding solution that would still be primarily for the workout and the reviews of both the Lectric and the Rattan may have mislead my novice impression to be that the 20" folders (with the long stalk) were more inline with beach cruisers; because of their erect seated position and shorter pedal arms, versus a full sized frame alternative. So armed with my misguided impression of 20", fat tire folders, I started looking at 26" options.

Due to some discounts (through Amazon), I was able procure the Wallke X3 POR (that's how they listed it, on Amazon) for less than $100 more than the Rattan.

I live in the flat lands of south Florida. The regenerative properties of the X3 Pro wasn't really high on my feature list. Ideally I would've gotten the non Pro, X3; but it was only available directly from Wallke's website. Purchasing through Amazon allowed me to add a 3 yr. warranty; which was important to me. As these Chinese sourced hub motors are very unfamiliar ground for me.

I have the X3 Pro's PAS level 1 setup to kick in just below my normal pace of 12 mph (to give me an assist against stiff head winds). So about 10% of the time I'll see that the "W-PAS" is adding wattage.

I'm not sure how to collect data on the regenerative abilities, as I don't have a baseline for a Wallke X3; which is the the exact same bike, without the W-PAS. Any recommendations would be appreciated.

 

[ElevenAD]

I've only got about 20 miles on the bike so far. Working on a write up

Here's some images of my tweaked X3 Pro:
View attachment 49200View attachment 49201

sweet! i love the look of Walkies!

 

[AHicks]

LGC, regarding the measurement of regen, it would be expensive to set that kind of thing up on your bike, and it would never pay off in any way. If you can't feel the regen working (like engine braking going down a big hill), there's so little going on it's not worth talking about. -Al

 

[camdon44]

I read somewhere that the regen (W-Pas) only starts at 13 mph or higher. I guess you would have to find some hills somewhere to feel it. What is the top speed with the throttle only? The only way I can imagine regeneration working to any extent would be if it started the instant you applied the brakes at any speed... Even with hills, my experience with fat tire ebikes is that that would not be that often. These bikes are out of stock, email states that they may be available in May sometime. What are your impressions of the suspension?

 

[camdon44]

Seems like when you read the info on their website about W-Pas, that they have invented a perpetual motion machine...

 

[LGC]

Just did a small ride this morning. The regen kicks in (on PAS 1) when I pedal over 12.0 and you can feel the sensation of braking, when I coast down the one little hill (overpass of an interstate) that's in my neighborhood.

I've done +23 miles, since the last recharge and the display still says 100% battery. On my next run, I'll purposely do throttle only, for a few miles. I'll have to assume that the battery metering is off, if I the battery still indicates 100%.

The bike came set for 28" tires. I didn't do a GPS measurement, but I did try 22" briefly, on throttle only and it was definitely faster. I'll take a GPS measurement of 26" (my daily setup), next time that ride.

 

[LGC]

I read somewhere that the regen (W-Pas) only starts at 13 mph or higher. I guess you would have to find some hills somewhere to feel it. What is the top speed with the throttle only? The only way I can imagine regeneration working to any extent would be if it started the instant you applied the brakes at any speed... Even with hills, my experience with fat tire ebikes is that that would not be that often. These bikes are out of stock, email states that they may be available in May sometime. What are your impressions of the suspension?

The air shock fork doesn't have a sag setting. The factory setting was 100 psi

I recently ran over a bumpy piece of road and it felt like I bottomed out, but the o-ring indicated about 80mm, out of the max 100mm. I bumped the psi to 150 and the rebound feels better. I'll probably bring the PSI down a touch, as the overall ride is stiffer and since I'm only doing hard pavement, I'd like to not feel every aspect of the road.

 

[AHicks]

Old suspension guy here. I used to mess with shock valving and such in off road stuff (quads, sleds, bikes). My only comment is that when setting up a suspension that's going to be worked hard, you want it to bottom on occasion. That's the ONLY way you are going to get the benefit of the use of 100% of your suspension travel.

 

[camdon44]

You have fat tires. The setting for 28" tires might be what is more accurate. I would compare their total radius to regular 26 inch tires... Yeah, no way you can go 23 miles and have a full battery...

 

[LGC]

You have fat tires. The setting for 28" tires might be what is more accurate. I would compare their total radius to regular 26 inch tires... Yeah, no way you can go 23 miles and have a full battery...

At 26", I have confirmed that the bike's speedometer matches my phone's GPS. But nothing to lose, in trying 28" today, if the rain holds off.

I've been overly concerned about catching a flat, since I pulled several, small variants of the infamous goat head thorn from my tires the other day. I've got on order a compact foot pump and tire levers. I opted (for now) to not attach the rear rack; this then presents a challenge, as to where to mount a bag. I've found this EDC bag fits nicely between the handlebar and the cables, without impeding the movement of said cables.

 

[LGC]

Shipped early March, from Ontario, Ca (not China)
Recv'd 1 week later, Fedex

Summary:
Overall, I'm happy with the feature set to price ratio, of the Wallke X3 Pro: 750 watt motor, 8 speed cassette, Air shock fork, hydraulic brakes (only 160 mm though) adjustable reach (with a shorter stem), color display (Key Display, KD718), cruise control, on screen password and no key dangling from the bottom of the crossbar.

Coming from a Big Box Store Mountain Bike, I found the (26"x4") fat tire's inherent resistance to be a non-issue. Very smooth ride over hard pavement.
After changing out the stock seat (for something just a little wider) and the leather grips for an ergonomic rubber set (with 3 finger horns), I found taking long rides very comfortable. For me, the aftermarket grips allow me to alternate my grip, to relieve any fatigue in my fingers.

I've lowered level 1 PAS to around my normal pace of 11-12 mph. This way the motor only kicks in, if I hit a strong head wind or a prolonged incline.

I'm 5'4" and 215 lbs. To address my challenges I replaced the bike stem with a shorter one (31.8/45mm) and lowered the replacement by 10 mm. Also I used the set screws, to reduce the reach, to the hydraulic brake grips. I'm really enamored of the design and adjustability. For my weight, the 750 watt motor, gets the job done., without protesting, when I go full throttle. At age 55, the motorized assist has allowed me to get back into riding.

There is a cruise control feature; which can be set against each PAS level's respective top speed. I swapped the default 3 levels for 5 and customized each level's output. Until I get acclimated to the full power, I only use PAS 1 - 3 (3% - 45%), on a daily basis.

I've gotten the bike up to 29 mph, on a flat surface, with pedaling, under PAS 5. I haven't really tried to measure throttle only yet. The motor itself does appear to be a true 750 watt. As under full throttle, PAS 5, the display shows the output wattage to be just under 1000w.

I just hope that the company can offer some type of discounted replacement option for the battery, $530 - $580 is unpalatable. Maybe keep the current price, but offer a core discount, once the original battery is returned.

Issues that are probably true for any bike that's drop shipped:
I would highly recommend having your bike tuned up by a pro, after you do the initial setup. If you aren't willing to address the following, possible issues:
a. My rear derailleur guard was pushed in; which impeded the derailleur from getting to the 8th gear. I was able to bend it back, by hand.
b. The rear derailleur also needed to be tuned; I used Parktools videos to address this.
c. The front caliper needed to be aligned. Again Parktools
d. The battery had a slight rattle, when riding on a bumpy surface. I resolved this by adding a few strips of 3M brand duct tape, to the endcap

==========================================================================================================================================
Footnotes:
Tires, 30 psi max
Fork is set to 100 psi, from the factory
The Key Display kd718 manual is online, at: http://key-display.com/

 

[camdon44]

Any update on how many miles you get from a charge, and why your display showed 100% battery at 23 miles?

 

[LGC]

Any update on how many miles you get from a charge, and why your display showed 100% battery at 23 miles?

Soon. My helmet is getting delivered today. So I should be taking longer rides, this coming week.

I had disconnected the included phone holder from the moment I unboxed the bike (which is a near field charger); I don't know if this caused the battery metering to fail or not. I've plugged it back in, so I'll know if the phone holder was the culprit on my next trek.

 

[camdon44]

Are those the stock pedals???

 

[LGC]

No, they're Fooker, 3 Bearing, Lightweight Nylon Fiber pedals (Link to Amazon ). I found the OEM, metal pedal's coating to be less than conducive to a good grip, with my footwear. Also I prefer the larger footprint.

 

[LGC]

Battery metering:
On a full charge, yesterday's ride (13 miles) was conducted under very windy conditions. On PAS level 2 (+/- 20 mph), into a strong head wind, I noticed the battery gauge dip for the 1st time; after riding this way for 2 miles, the meter was indicating 89%. But when set back to PAS level 1, the battery level creeped up. At rest, the battery meter went back to 100%

So I guess the metering kind of works, but only indicates real time, under load conditions.

I'll refrain from charging (before my next jaunt), and see if the meter goes below 100%, when at rest.