Wabash RT or Civante for touring?

[JHutch]

I've been riding a Fuji Touring bike for 10 years and am now looking for an ebike that I can use for touring and have been considering both the Wabash RT and the Civante. I was able to test ride both at a local (within an hour's drive) dealer. Any bike I choose needs to either have or the ability for me to add:

-Front and rear fenders/mud guards
-Rear pannier rack
-Front low rider pannier rack
-Aerobars
-Drop handlebars (I have arthritis in my wrists and and uncomfortable with flat/straight bars on many ebikes)
-A riding position that is somewhere between the more upright position of many ebikes and the "bars below the seat" road bike position.
-Ability to carry at least two, preferably three water bottles.

The Wabash RT meets almost all of those requirements except I'm not crazy about the wider, flaired drop bar and it has a minimalist display. The handlebars were lower than I would like but I'm assuming that can be adjusted with a different stem. It has a very minimalist display (battery level, speed, mileage, etc) compared to other ebikes including the Civante. The display and motor control will need to be relocated to add aerobars and I'm not sure where that can go with the unusual mounting system it has. Also it has no lights.

Both rode great in the test rides. I preferred the Civante, particularly that it has dual chainrings. That will save battery life climbing hills. It also has a nicer display. It also has a front light.

The Civante raises a number of issues. It doesn't have the down tube integrated battery, though that is mainly aesthetics. It has fewer braze-ons. I only see one attaching point for a bottle cage. I'm not sure if I can add an aerobar. The handlebar flatten out to a more oval shape just outboard of the stem where bars would usually clamp on. That would seem to require aerobars which have other than round attaching points, or some kind of shim. The website says the fork is fender compatible but I didn't see how a fender would attach at the top to the crown of the fork. I assume the racks and fenders have to be aftermarket since the Yamaha accessory rack and fenders show as "sold out" on the website.

Has anyone added racks, fenders or an aerobar to a Civante? Or a way to carry extra water bottles? I'd appreciate hearing others experience with either bike.
Thank,
John H

 

[JHutch]

Forgot to mention. With the current promotion the Wabash RT is $800 off plus a 2nd battery and a 5 year warranty. The Civante is not included in that deal. Also the Yamaha dealer didn't appear to be much of a bike shop. The sell motorcycles, ATV's, lawn mowers, you name it. It took them 15 or 2o minutes to put air in the tires for my test ride. The presta valve appeared to be a perplexing problem. They are very friendly and helpful. But not knowledgeable.

 

[Neverlost]

What is a merchant gift card? Is it only good at Yamaha store?

 

[JHutch]

Thanks for the reply. I didn't see anything describing a gift card. The website says "customer cash". I guess that's a little ambiguous as to its form. The dealer quoted a price of $3299 plus tax after the Yamaha rebate. I assume the rebate is applied at purchase. But I will clarify that with them.

 

[EMGX]

I don't have either of those bikes but I do have a '19 BH gravel bike with older version Yamaha PW SE and the external battery. For me the performance is excellent and I have done a short, few day, ~180 mile tour.
Few things to maybe consider:

I'd make sure that the walk assist is active, it isn't on mine and it can't be made to be active, my main dissatisfaction with the bike. I talked to a Yamaha bike owner a couple years ago who told me it wasn't active on his Yamaha (Crosscore?) bike either. That is a big deal to me when there is a long steep climb where I wanted to get off and walk for a while. Without walk assist I was pushing a heavy ebike loaded with water/gear = no fun. Another ebike I have with walk assist is much better in those conditions, can change gears while moving to adjust speed and torque assist as desired, love that feature.

Some owners of Yamaha bikes have replaced the forks because of noise, maybe those owners will give details.

Yamaha bikes are deeply discounted at some dealers, I've seen Civante as low as $1300. I wouldn't count on support from a powersports dealer that doesn't even know how to use a Presta valve, let alone other bike components. There are a lot of other bikes to consider and many of them are discounted too at this time.

 

[Greentween]

I have Civante. You will need to put a carbon fork on it to get rid of the headset rattle. Then you also gain some attaching points on the fork like Wabash RT already has. Keep in mind neither one has a carbon fork. Since Wabash RT has bigger 45mm tires, maybe it wont rattle. Maybe?

Keep in mind for warranty repair you must use your dealer. Even if that shop goes broke. Yamaha HQ will not support you by phone. For headset rattle, I had to figure it out myself. Zero support from Yamaha HQ nor dealer who tried but ended up he went broke. He didn't know shoot either about bike repair - just like your motorcycle dealer. Ask your dealer if he knows what headset is on the bike> probably get awkward stare.

Diamondback Current looks like good comparable and you may also have LBS to support you.
Crow Gravital SL2 also a contender. Already carbon fork w/Tiagra.
Cannondale Topstone Neo Left3, now that's nice and not to much more money since its on sale. LBS support.

 

[EMGX]

I have Civante. You will need to put a carbon fork on it to get rid of the headset rattle. Then you also gain some attaching points on the fork like Wabash RT already has. Keep in mind neither one has a carbon fork. Since Wabash RT has bigger 45mm tires, maybe it wont rattle. Maybe?

Keep in mind for warranty repair you must use your dealer. Even if that shop goes broke. Yamaha HQ will not support you by phone. For headset rattle, I had to figure it out myself. Zero support from Yamaha HQ nor dealer who tried but ended up he went broke. He didn't know shoot either about bike repair - just like your motorcycle dealer. Ask your dealer if he knows what headset is on the bike> probably get awkward stare.

Diamondback Current looks like good comparable and you may also have LBS to support you.
Crow Gravital SL2 also a contender. Already carbon fork w/Tiagra.
Cannondale Topstone Neo Left3, now that's nice and not to much more money since its on sale. LBS support.

Words to the wise.

Curious, was the walk assist disabled on your Civante?

 

[JHutch]

Thanks, good advice I'm sure. Particularly about walk assist. I'll have to check that out. The thing I've struggled with in trying to decide on an ebike is local availability. I'm in the St Louis area and there are plenty of good bike shops around but finding one of the bikes I'd consider buying that is available for a test ride seems just about impossible. I drove an hour south to see the Yamaha's. If I need dealer service it will be a problem. The only other bike I've test ridden is a Specialized Turbo Vado 4. It's a nice bike but not a drop bar which I prefer. I'm also interested in the Diamondback Current after reading about it here. But DB's website there isn't one in stock anywhere within 200 miles.

 

[Greentween]

No walk assist on Civane. The control is pretty basic.

 

[EMGX]

I see that Yamaha must have changed the "X" controls. Mine has the select button on the top of the button pad and the non-functional walk button on the bottom which appears to be the select button location now.

Honestly, if you can do without the walk function and find a Civante for $1300 like I've seen listed it might be worthwhile to take a flyer on one even if you won't have any after sale support, but that's just me. I paid $1500 for my $3400 list price Yamaha powered gravel bike and have never needed any after sale support. It came with 105 groupset and I like the gearing that the 2x11 drivetrain offers more than if it only came with a single chainring. It weighs an honest 40-41# which is a tank compared to your Fuji touring bike but that's one of the compromises that an ebike entails.

If you have an REI around maybe check with them if you can order an ebike to a store to test ride and possibly return if the bike doesn't suit you. Their Topstone Neo 5 might work for you and is 30% off list. It appears to have a walk function button but doesn't have the fork you want, looks like a nice bike. In any case, given the imploding ebike market, I'd look for a better deal than what the Yamaha dealer offered.

 

[JHutch]

Thanks for all the replies. The Cannondale Topstone Neo 5 is on my list. Cannondale's website shows the Neo 5 unavailable in all sizes. I have a local REI, but they show only medium and XL frame sizes available. I might call the local store and see if they can bring in a medium for a test ride. With most all of these bikes I fall at the high end of the medium frame range and the low end of the large frame. It would be great to be able to try both sizes before buying.

 

[EMGX]

Correction on my part. For some reason I took the price you quoted as being for the Civante, if it is for the more expensive RT it seems like a solid deal coming with a spare battery. Especially if that is something that you want.

 

[Greentween]

Wabash RT Youtube review:

At 3 minute marker you can hear the headset rattle. Same noise as my Civante made before I switched the fork.

 

[JHutch]

I decided to pass on a Yamaha all together. They are probably great bikes despite the known issues. But the actual bike shop knowledge in their dealer network in my area is less than mine. I ended up going a totally different direction. I started looking at drop bar ebikes. Everything I found was either a road bike or gravel. Some I was interested in were unavailable in a large frame. The others are not in stock locally. The only one I was able to ride was a Specialized Turbo Creo with a carbon frame. I rode it because they have the same model with an aluminum frame so it was a great test for fit and comfort. The LBS took a minute to adjust the seat and handlebar a bit for me. The result is I loved riding it. Most important it felt great and I thought I could ride all day on it. The carbon frame made it lighter than my Fuji Touring (not a high bar to exceed) even with a motor and battery. But it was around $7500. The ride allowed me to line up the geometry of the Specialized to that of the other road or gravel ebikes that looked interesting and to compare them to my Fuji's geometry.

So, today I bought a 2022 Trek Domane+ HP. It is a "new" bike. That was the last year for the HP. So factory warranty, etc. We have a Trek company store in town so service should be good. It's lacking many of the attributes I was looking for. But, the ones it meets for fit, comfort, quality brand, just plain fun to ride, and I actually available should meet my expectations. This was billed as a gravel bike. The wheelbase and chain stay are a little longer than the bike I rode which is closer to my Fuji. That and a more relaxed head tube angle should make it handle a bit less like a twitchy road bike.

I'm still coming to terms with what it means to have a carbon frame for care and maintenance. But I think the extra care and new tools will be worth it.

 

[Greentween]

Nice choice. Congrats.

Buddy I ride with has the Turbo Creo carbon. That's nice too. Creo 2 should be out soon.

 

[abercrombie]

At 3 minute marker you can hear the headset rattle. Same noise as my Civante made before I switched the fork.

Is the headset a taper or straight?