Vendors and users, will you give your thoughts about ultra-visible ebike lighting?

[Reid]

Here are my thoughts, extreme, perhaps, yet to my thinking these wants are logical and reasonable:

First point. It could make a great and perhaps primary selling point if ebike sellers included as standard equipment great quality front and rear lighting, plus side lighting totally attention-arresting in the brightest daylight.

And all this lighting powered by the ebike battery and all this lighting defaulted to be ON whenever the bike is powered up, unless one chooses to turn it off, manually, each time the bike is powered up.

I think of all the close calls I have had despite wearing neon yellow shirts. Bright, daytime-noticable lights are more important, I say, than mere neon clothing colors that not many of us want to wear, anyway.

When, some day an ebike maker offers product expressly designed to optimize the rider's safety in this era of car drivers so distracted that they really should not be driving, then that maker will have a great selling point.

But, of course, all things must be sold. Their value must be demonstrated.

Court helps to sell good concepts. He helps ebike vendors. But, moreso, he helps buyers.

His style is a perfect balance of deference to the erstwhile ebike vendor, who obviously wants her/his product to be seen as the best, with concurrent observation afforded by his great circumspection of what it =could be=, in order to be better.

Second point. Stayin' Alive (a BeeGees song. I knew them when their piano technician in 1980)

MOST older folks (I am 64 and still fearless) who I talk to, simply will not ride a bike. They are rightfully fearful of getting struck by a car whose driver is distracted.

Supplying bikes intended for seniors with DEFAULT ON, front and rear and side view, attention-grabbing lights, super bright lights powered by the main battery, could be sold easily and would be a boon toward further sales.

Older people in particular, because by now, we acutely appreciate that we are going to die too soon, generally will not ride a bike in urban settings because we think that riding a bike will put ourselves at risk of injury for insufficiently countermanding benefit.

Seniors tell me at every pitch I make to them for ebiking,

"I am afraid of traffic."

Therefore, I state that emphasizing the visibility of the bicycle ridden on American roads is vital.

If the senior rider thinks he and she will be seen, the senior rider might be more amenable to the idea of riding a bike.

If this be true then it is therefore vital to SELL the sizzle of the highly-visible bike:

"...our ultra life preserving, 360-degree visible, daytime lighting."

Velec and all other ebike makers could capitalize on the concept. Visibility of an arresting nature is more important than any other upgrade feature of an ebike. Inherent safety properly promoted will sell more ebikes than belts or Nuvincis or other merely technical specs.

Folks, regular-all-of-us human beings, want assurance and encouragement that we won't get hurt by cars if we essay to ride an ebike. An ebike to ride, the harmless lightning steed, instead of curling up inside of yet another two-ton car.

Vendors, put your brand name here:

"---------- is the ebike everybody sees."

 

[Mr. Coffee]

I wholeheartedly agree that better and more visible lights could increase safety of cyclists. It is shocking to me that while many e-bike manufacturers include built-in lights relatively few include a built-in blinky. That apparently is because such lights are illegal in the EU.

However, there are lots of dials on the safety machine and I think pushing hard on a number of approaches simultaneously would be more productive than choosing any one approach as a panacea.

 

[Gator]

My ebike came with lights as any good commuter bike should. I was just shopping for some lighting that would make me more visible. I had a near miss with a cement mixer truck that opened my eyes. The issue was that the sun was in the driver's eyes at around 6:30 AM. Somehow I think that maybe a pulse light (not Strobe) in the front would aid vehicle drivers in spotting me. I have a red taillight, a blinking red tailight on my bike and a blinking red light on my helmet. Now I believe I need something added to the front in addition to the headlight that is already there. It would be nice if bike builders included all these lighting approaches as a part of their base package especially when the bike is marketed as a commuter.

 

[PowerMe]

This is one reason that keeps cyclists, and specifically ebikers, from commuting or replacing the car for local errands. If you don't have safe bike paths and ways to stay out of traffic it's a crapshoot of safety. So many distracted drivers you have to ride very defensively if you're going to ride among cars, not just hoping to be seen but making yourself abundantly apparent.

My bike has a front and rear light but something flashing is also needed, front and back. I use my ORP horn to make sure people see me, in addition to a bright neon shirt. Most of all though, I try to do my riding on paths and stay off any busy road as much as I can. I do not feel safe on the roads that don't have dedicated bike lanes.

 

[Drew]

I always ride with a headlight on (since around 2004). It definitely increases visibility to drivers and that usually translates to safer driving behaviors. Usually is not always, however. I am certain a small minority of drivers are contrary enough to go out of their way to cause problems for cyclists using a bright headlight during the day. And larger minority react poorly to flashing headlights (as do some cyclists). I have concluded a bright continuous light is probably the optimum solution.

 

[ebikemom]

I keep headlights on both my car and bike. I think e-bikes should all have integrated lighting systems, and I totally agree with the poster that side lighting in addition is a fabulous idea.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

Integrated lighting is great but you should respect the limitations. If you are carrying stuff on your bike (and at least for me that's a lot of why I even have a bike -- to carry stuff) it is very easy to obscure the lights. Even if you have working and unobscured built-in lights I heartily recommend having a separate handlebar or helmet-mounted light (helmet-mounted lights are great because they are high up and can be seen from quite a distance away, with some experiments with an L&M Ranger light I found that at low power you could see the light two miles away at sunset!). You'll also thank me for having an external light the first time you need to fix a flat tire in the dark. And you should also definitely have a blinky or two.

A little bit of reading in the literature shows that human beings are terrible at predicting the behavior of multiple moving objects at a time. They get even worse at it when they are tired or distracted. In the maritime world they talk about "non-collision-course collisions" where one or more ships steer into each other -- some estimates are that nearly two-thirds of maritime collisions involve the pilots of one or both ships taking active measures which steer the ships into each other. In the aviation world "controlled flight into terrain" is actually a thing.

Which leads us to bicycles. I have cycled quite a bit since childhood, and commuted by bicycle in the Seattle area for a number of years. Over that time I had more than a few collisions and a couple of visits to the ER. What surprised me is that the two worst collisions I was in I had made eye contact with the motorist in the seconds running up to the accident, the motorist had obviously seen me but still steered their vehicle into me.

Human beings make mistakes. Any system where safety depends on humans not making mistakes isn't going to be safe and isn't designed for humans.

 

[Roxlimn]

I mount an extremely obvious GoPro on top of my helmet during the day. I find motorists to be a lot more cautious and apparently a lot more attentive when their driving is being recorded.

 

[Reid]

"...looking right through me."

That's it exactly! How many times I have been creamed or nearly hit by drivers who looked right through me.

You think you have made eye contact. But they are somewhere else.

I agree! The BLINKING bright light grabs the attention. I see it everyday. Bicyclists coming toward me with just a bright, solid headlight are visible, sure. But they do not command attention like the cyclist coming toward me with a blinking bright headlight.

And the horn. We need that kind of super horn, all right!

 

[Gator]

And I think I am going to pick one of these up for my fall commute.

Maybe I can get one that flashes off and on.

 

[Over50]

I ride with a lot of good lights from ankles to helmet on body and on bike, hi viz and/or reflective, and I've still had cars pull out in front of me as if I was invisible.

 

[Drew]

The Case Against Bright-as-the-Sun Flashing Bike Lights

Quote:

... though flashing lights may improve your chances of getting noticed, both studies found that they also make it harder for other road users to judge your speed and distance. In other words, the driver who thinks he’s got plenty of time to take a left at the intersection might hit the oncoming cyclist in the opposite lane because she looks slower and farther away than she is.

In addition to confusing drivers of your whereabouts, flashing bike lights have been shown to have a negative impact on people with photosensitive epilepsy. It is hard to find documented cases of bike lights causing seizures. But according to the Intractable Childhood Epilepsy Alliance, “There have been cases where red flashing lights (red light emitting diodes) on the back of bicycles have triggered seizures in people with photosensitive epilepsy, when they have been close to the lights as they were setting them up,” though it doesn’t cite specific incidents. Halley Weaver, a Portland cyclist with photosensitive epilepsy says that flashing bike lights make her nauseous.

In addition to all that, flashing bike lights make for a terrible experience for other bicyclists unfortunate enough to be nearby. Again, at best it’s merely annoying. Anyone who’s sat at a red light on a popular bike route can attest to the fact that it’s frustrating and uncomfortable to have a powerful flasher going off right in front of you as you wait for the light to turn green. At worst it can be dangerous. When a rider with a flashing front light passes by going the opposite direction on a dimly lit or unlit street or bike path it leaves you temporarily blinded and vulnerable to hitting hidden objects and potholes in your path. Of course this can happen with bright, steady lights, but flashing exacerbates the issues.

I give my bicycling compatriots the benefit of the doubt. The vast majority of bike lights come with a flashing mode, and it’s intuitive to think flashing mode makes you more visible to drivers and therefore safer, so why wouldn’t you put it on flash? There is little regulation of the issue. Washington State explicitly outlaws flashing front lights. To my knowledge it is the only place in the U.S. to do so, and obviously the law does not get enforced.

With all that said, flashing mode does sometimes have its place. I use flashing lights during the day when it’s particularly overcast and gray (aka, nine months of the year in Seattle) or when riding through a daytime rainstorm (again, frequently around here). There’s probably a case for using flash mode on the cheapest, lowest-powered — like 15 lumens or so — bike lights as well.

But using flashing bike lights at night doesn’t make you safer, can create medical problems for people, can be dangerous for other bicyclists and is definitely obnoxious to be around. So really, why on earth would you do it?

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

 

[Camac]

We insist that all riders in the group wear a floro jacket usually green but then we don't ride at night.

 

[Reid]

Also I found these interesting facts.
Just like cars & motorcycles, using your lights during the day will dramatically decrease your chance of getting into an accident.

Source: https://www.trekbikes.com/ca/en_CA/...ts/bontrager-flare-r-rear-bike-light/p/13202/

Be the bigger distraction
A 2005 Danish study revealed a 30-50% reduction in crashes for cyclists using lights during the day. The Flare R rear light is the first light designed from the ground up for daylight visibility with a 2km range.

80% of accidents happen during the day
With bursts of 65 lumens, balanced optics and optimised flash patterns, the Flare R cuts through the chaos to help make drivers aware of your presence on the road, even in challenging lighting conditions like dawn and dusk.

40% of accidents are from behind
Statistics support that there’s no better way to increase safety on the road than by using a rear light. Choose the lower lumen setting for riding at night or saving battery life. Pick the brightest flash setting for grabbing attention during the day.

Cyclists overestimate their visibility by 700%
Day or night, it’s hard to know exactly when a driver can see you. A study conducted in 2012 revealed that cyclists overestimate their visibility by up to 700%. Use front and rear lights during the day and night as the first measure to increase your visibility.

Be the bigger distraction

That is what I think, too. Sure, it can be obnoxious. And in the case of a flashing white front light in the day or night, we can have too much of a good thing. And at night a flashing red rear light may also be far too much.

The difference of thousands-fold, between day and night ambient light and our eyes' natural resetting to generally bright, generally dark conditions, means that a light that flashes appropriately bright in a particular level of daylight will be too bright at lesser ambient light levels.

Who agrees?

I have long used Cygolite products. My present daily taillight is a rechargeable 100 lumen Cygolite Hotshot. Its many daytime flash modes are appropriate for daytime riding. The cars behind cannot not see it. It has a vertically oriented lenticular lens for the effect of widening the viewable angle while also reducing the apparent intensity to a reasonable yet still very very bright level.

At night I run the Hotshot 100 only in solid mode. Its brightness in solid red mode is easily adjustable, too. Its flashing red daytime mode flashing speeds are easily adjustable. I recommend Cygolite taillights because I have used them for years and find them readily available and relatively reasonably priced.

That said, the Australian fellow's video of putting a red filter on a white headlight used as a taillight, is a super good idea, IMO, if we always remember to use appropriate judgment: Solid red at night. Flashing red only during daylight.

These opinions are through my own, myopic reality filter.

Am grateful for all the many other perspectives I am reading here. There seems to be some consensus already, that

1. Drivers too often look through us and fool us because we think they see us.
2. In which case a flashing light of suitably but not destructively bright appearance may jar the driver's brain better.

How would a bike lighting system automatically ramp up or dim down the brightness of its front and rear see-me lights? Because without automatic, photocell adjustment of these running lights, they cannot be of the proper brightness in all levels of ambient lighting. They can be too much of a good thing or not enough.

Point: I want a front bright white flashing light. Presently I am using the Cygolite Streak 450 mounted sideways on the top of my CCS's steerer tube. Sideways there because I have no available real estate on the bar and this model was chosen because it does not have the lenticular lens and its beam is relatively wide angle in all directions.

Point: when I ride on the bike path I rotate the little Streak mostly down to not annoy so much approaching cyclists and pedestrians. But on the open road in bright daylight I aim the Streak straight ahead.

It may be my wishful thinking, but I do believe I am much safer in brigh daylight riding with that very bright and obnoxious Streak flashing 100 times per minute. Likewise I set the rear red Cygolite to flash at some similar rate. They both are providing pretty wide angle coverage.

I should, but am only musing here, mount two more wide-angle super bright lights on the side of the bike, to help prevent T-bone collisions.

 

[Gator]

This one might be better, FULL REFLECTIVE jacket.

Yes it might be Do you have a link?

 

[Gator]

I am totally against strobe lights. What about a pulse light? A slow irregular pulse is an attention getter and I keep mine pointed on the ground about 25 feet in front of me. I have a flashlight that does both and there is a clear difference between strobe and pulse.