Vanmoof pauses sales

In my opinion there isn't much out there of higher quality that isn't proprietary. Every automobile, name brand motorcycle etc.is proprietary except the Chinese who buy various parts and pieces, put them together to make an item and put their brand name on it. It makes it cheaper in more ways then one.
What ever makes you happy is just fine with me. But many times proprietary isn't better.... it's just to justify the price and to keep you locked out of doing anything but returning to them for everything.
 
What ever makes you happy is just fine with me. But many times proprietary isn't better.... it's just to justify the price and to keep you locked out of doing anything but returning to them for everything.
sometimes it’s better, sometimes not. innovation by definition requires something new, and of course the people who made that investment want to protect from someone just copying it.

it really depends on whether there’s a real problem to be solved or opportunity. a better control system for a complex system, sure, a new shape for the head of a fastener just to sell more tools, no.
 
sometimes it’s better, sometimes not. innovation by definition requires something new, and of course the people who made that investment want to protect from someone just copying it.

it really depends on whether there’s a real problem to be solved or opportunity. a better control system for a complex system, sure, a new shape for the head of a fastener just to sell more tools, no.
I agree it can be better. . .but even then many times the difference is minimal and unless on some critical or professional competition level it's typically not worth the price of admission. This is especially true to the average user who isn't concerned or impressed with branding
 
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I agree it can be better. . .but even then many times the difference is minimal and unless on some critical or professional competition level it's typically not worth the price of admission. This is especially true to the average user who isn't concerned or impressed with branding
true. this is why companies like apple have been so successful - although the certainly are keenly aware how much some of the things they do “lock out” choice or competition, they typically do so in areas that create a better experience for the average user. lightning was better way back when because you could just plug it in in either direction, and it was smaller. now that usb-c is as good and a standard, they’re switching, more than a decade later. lots of similar examples and some less successful ones too.

vanmoof tried the same approach - identify the friction points for the average rider, and innovate around them. e.g. theft - built in kick or cafe lock plus loud alarm that unlocks automatically as long you have your phone with you, plus “find my” integrated and subscription service to retrieve the bike for you. that made a huge difference to me when i was thinking about a casual bike. it’s all built in, it works great.

the service model - had they ever completed the network - was SO much better than what most people experience at local bike shops. around here, especially during the pandemic, most of them would give you a “oh man we’re so busy, i dunno, i don’t think we sold you that bike, we don’t have parts for that drivetrain, have to order them, maybe get to it next week?!?” while with vanmoof i’d open the app, hit appointment, pick what i needed, drop the bike off at a precise predetermined time in the next 12-36 hours, get an identical loaner bike, and come back in a day or two. so, to make that work they had to minimize the number of models and options. that’s a fair trade.

similarly, the IGH plus e-shifter for a casual city utility bike solves a huge huge friction point for urban bikes. covered drivetrain, never getting caught after a sudden stop in the wrong gear, no learning curve, just get on and ride. the proprietary nature of the e-shifter was a necessary evil at that price point. do you use an expensive, heavy, “standardized” IGH like a rohloff that’s frankly overkill for a $2k commuter bike, or design a “proprietary” $25 widget that just shifts a cheap ($100 ish) sturmey archer 4 speed?

great idea - but they absolutely totally F’d up the engineering and quality control on that one critical interface. i would argue that if they had gotten that correct, they’d still be in business. take big risks, suffer big consequences.

if i was making a book about the rise and fall of vanmoof, i’d title it “the widget that sunk a company” or something like that.

IMG_5732.jpeg
 
What is the part you showed in the picture?
the e-shifter. it simply moves the rotary gear selector on the IGH according to speed, or rather according to input from the bike’s electronics, which base the desired gear on speed and settings in the app. there were mechanical issues with many of them, resulting in outright failures of misalignments or other problems with the IGH, they are not well sealed against weather, and the bike has no torque sensor, so it will happily try and shift while under full load which is really not good for the IGH. after riding the bike a while you do tend to get a sense for when it’s going to shift, and ease up a bit.

my e-shifter was replaced twice i think, and the IGH itself twice or so as well, but has worked perfectly well for the last year or more. i would not be surprised if they ended up replacing as many as a third or a half of them that were made in the first year of the S3 production. a very costly mistake.
 
The scuttlebutt I was hearing from ex-Van Moof employees centered around their trouble starting with very high warranty replacement costs. I didn't know specific details but what @mschwett is talking about above would certainly qualify. From what I understand they were literally flooded with returned bikes that they had to repair and ship back out again, and it was a crushing burden. They had to bring in parts from overseas en masse to implement the repairs, and parts coming timely from overseas is problematic in and of itself. Especially after a sales boom.
 
The scuttlebutt I was hearing from ex-Van Moof employees centered around their trouble starting with very high warranty replacement costs. I didn't know specific details but what @mschwett is talking about above would certainly qualify. From what I understand they were literally flooded with returned bikes that they had to repair and ship back out again, and it was a crushing burden. They had to bring in parts from overseas en masse to implement the repairs, and parts coming timely from overseas is problematic in and of itself. Especially after a sales boom.
yep. if they’d had service centers/shops everywhere they sold bikes, they might have been OK. still not a good situation but it was a quick swap every time i brought my bike in.

on the other hand, people who lived farther from a shop had to ship the bike back and forth, a huge hassle and huge cost. from the very beginning of my experience people would ask if i liked the bike and should they get one, and i’d say “only
if you live within a short ride of a VM shop.”
 
The scuttlebutt I was hearing from ex-Van Moof employees centered around their trouble starting with very high warranty replacement costs. I didn't know specific details but what @mschwett is talking about above would certainly qualify. From what I understand they were literally flooded with returned bikes that they had to repair and ship back out again, and it was a crushing burden. They had to bring in parts from overseas en masse to implement the repairs, and parts coming timely from overseas is problematic in and of itself. Especially after a sales boom.
Big brands charge a hefty price for their e-bikes to be able to cover the warranty cost. That's why Specialized could survive the "BLOKS disaster" or failing older Brose motors.
 
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