Vado 3.0: Worn out cassette after 450 miles

MrBritton said:
I'm thinking Specialized originally did not intend for the Vado 3.0 to be a 28mph bike.
Click to expand...

Indeed you are correct. When the Vado 3/5/6 were announced, the Vado 3 was going to be a 20 mph bike and the Vado 5/6 were the 28 mph bikes. Thus the gearing. When Specialized upgraded the firmware so that the Vado 3 was a Class 3 (28 mph) bike, it was undergeared. Thus, to cruise in the mid-20's to 28 mph, you end up stuck in top gear (40T-11T) at a high cadence. This puts wear on the 11T sprocket and the chain that they were not designed to handle. The same gearing is 48T-13T (or 48T-15T) on the Vado 5/6 which puts far less strain on the driveline.
 
The original Sunrace 11/40 cassette on my Vado 3 lasted 1,100km, after which I threw it away. It was noisy and shifted badly and I was only using the lower two cogs (20mph/32km/hr max) with the original 40t chainring resulting in a high cadence. I swapped the chain ring for a 48T aftermarket one from eBay (US$35) along with a new KMC X-10e chain, a Shimano 11/42 Deore cassette and the NZ Importer reflashed the motor firmware for 45km/hr. It really improved things a lot; much better shifting, higher speeds and and lower wear rate. I thought I might miss the higher gain of the 40/40 ratio, but didn't. 48T/42T works fine on my off road trip home. The rear cassette has been on now for 2,600km with no problems, but you've got swap out the chain when it reads 0.75. I'm on my 3rd one now, still using the KMC X10e EcoProTeq 136 link chains, but with a 5 or 6 links removed.
 
Too bad manufacturers don't sell drive trains specifically for e-bikes. Something that's beefed up and has better spacing between ratios. Personally, I don't think it's necessary to have all the gears necessary for a human powered bike and find myself skipping gears a lot when I upshift. For mid-drives, a better chain with more robust and fewer gears seems wise.

That said, I have been using a BBS-HD (1000 watts) for 1400 miles and have not had any issues with the chain or chainring or cogs and this motor has considerably more torque than the Brose used on the Vados. Speaking of Brose, it's nice that you have the option of swapping out the front chain ring for a larger one. I don't think this is a possibility with Bosch.

As for hub motors, they have some advantages, but there are also drawbacks. They are prone to breaking spokes and make for a more unbalanced bike as in front/rear weight distribution. And I've yet to ride a hub motor with a decent torque sensor. A good torque sensor isn't cheap and with the exception of Stromer, most hub motor bikes are at a lower price point than mid-drives.
 
rannyv said:
As for hub motors, they have some advantages, but there are also drawbacks. They are prone to breaking spokes and make for a more unbalanced bike as in front/rear weight distribution. And I've yet to ride a hub motor with a decent torque sensor. A good torque sensor isn't cheap and with the exception of Stromer, most hub motor bikes are at a lower price point than mid-drives.
Click to expand...

The 1st gen Turbo (200W, 250W, and 500W GoSwiss hub motors) have excellent torque sensing. BUT, they do break spokes. I find that with the 11-42T Deore XT cluster and the 200W motor, I end up using many, if not all, of the speeds to keep my cadence steady. My motor is GREAT for range and certainly helps when climbing, but is no where near as torquey as newest gen mid-drives. The Turbo S motor has pretty good torque, but was on a $7K bike. OTOH, I can cruise nicely at 20+ mph and still get 60-80 mile range easily. With some conservation in EC0 mode, I get 100 miles.
 
Wow, @Douglas Ruby, that is great range. My current bike is is an R&M Roadster and I think I would be lucky to get 40 miles on the 'tour' setting. Since I don't do a lot of recreational riding and use it more as a commute and errand runner, the range is fine. I think I'll try leaving it on eco to see real world range. In tour, I can easily sustain 22 - 26 MPH. It was one of the fastest bikes I tried and I tried quite a few (but no Specialized). I find the gearing on the Roadster to be fine even at 28 - 30, but I like to spin and those speeds aren't sustained for a long period of time as I'd rather arrive safely than quickly and much of the riding is in town.
 
rannyv said:
Too bad manufacturers don't sell drive trains specifically for e-bikes. Something that's beefed up and has better spacing between ratios. Personally, I don't think it's necessary to have all the gears necessary for a human powered bike and find myself skipping gears a lot when I upshift. For mid-drives, a better chain with more robust and fewer gears seems wise.

That said, I have been using a BBS-HD (1000 watts) for 1400 miles and have not had any issues with the chain or chainring or cogs and this motor has considerably more torque than the Brose used on the Vados. Speaking of Brose, it's nice that you have the option of swapping out the front chain ring for a larger one. I don't think this is a possibility with Bosch.

As for hub motors, they have some advantages, but there are also drawbacks. They are prone to breaking spokes and make for a more unbalanced bike as in front/rear weight distribution. And I've yet to ride a hub motor with a decent torque sensor. A good torque sensor isn't cheap and with the exception of Stromer, most hub motor bikes are at a lower price point than mid-drives.
Click to expand...
The front chainring can be changed with a Bosch motor. The chainring spins and so a 17 tooth on a Bosch system is equivalent to a 42 on a conventional system, 2.5 times the teeth. I have my Trek SC tuned and run a 22 front chainring and a 11x46 in the rear.
 
coffeemaker: It is. Here's the link the Specialized Importer sent me when they couldn't get their one to me.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/DECKAS-Bik...n-Ring-BCD104mm-32T-52T-FREE-US-/253225374385

Luv2ride: I agree with your comments about an ebike not needing the same number of gears as a non assist bike. I find I'm skipping 2 or 3 at a time both up and down. But the range 11/42 is necessary and some way of smoothly getting the chain between the gears too. I find 10 speeds works fine.
 
Last edited:
rannyv said:
Wow, @Douglas Ruby, that is great range. My current bike is is an R&M Roadster and I think I would be lucky to get 40 miles on the 'tour' setting.
Click to expand...
I have the smallest 200W motor and the largest 691Wh battery. The 1st gen Turbo family have excellent "ECO" controls so "in-ride" battery management can be finely applied. My range at full assist is around 42-45 miles. While I might like more power, I like the lack of battery anxiety better.
 
My 48T chainring is holding up surprisingly well. Pic here shows the wear on the teeth after 2,600km. It's the end of winter here and I'm lubing with Rock N Roll Extreme weekly (~100km). The current chain is just over 0.5% so I should get at least two maybe three more chains before I need to replace chainring and cassette again.

I didn't know the Vado 5 came with a chain guard?
 

Attachments

  • 20180909_105730.jpg
    20180909_105730.jpg
    1.6 MB · Views: 711
  • 20180909_110210.jpg
    20180909_110210.jpg
    979.3 KB · Views: 757
coffeemaker said:
Had I known the issue with the smallest sprocket wearing out so quickly, I don't think I would have gotten the Vado 3.

Perhaps a hub motor would have been a better fit for me.

Here's another thread about wearing out the 11T sprocket: https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/vado-3-0-mysterious-mechanical-clunking-problem.14436/
Click to expand...
That seems very strange that any cog or cassette would wear out in only 450 miles. with such a large chain ring in front, there just isn't as much torque actually applied to the rear wheel when going at the higher rates of speed. I think a deeper inspection is needed to determine the cause of wear, and exactly what part of the teeth are wearing down. Question - is the derailleur truly compatible with the cassette ? I recently witnessed ebike OEM's spec derailleurs that are not compatible with cassette's, despite the derailleur manufacturer warning of compatibility issues. A SRAM derailleur being the issue, (failing) with SRAM emphatically stating the Sunrace cassette the OEM put on it was not compatible. The ebike OEM finally relented, without admitting they did anything wrong, saying 'yes' to changing the cassette to what SRAM was saying. Its out of my pocket (for the customer), despite being only 4 months into the purchase, with the ebike OEM not covering their failure to properly specify the right cassette/derailleur combination.
 
Rod Jets said:
My 48T chainring is holding up surprisingly well. Pic here shows the wear on the teeth after 2,600km. It's the end of winter here and I'm lubing with Rock N Roll Extreme weekly (~100km). The current chain is just over 0.5% so I should get at least two maybe three more chains before I need to replace chainring and cassette again.

I didn't know the Vado 5 came with a chain guard?
Click to expand...
Looks to me like you have a circular wear pattern on the chainring where the chain contacts it. I'd say it needs to be replaced for sure. A fair amount of muck too.
 
rich c said:
Looks to me like you have a circular wear pattern on the chainring where the chain contacts it. I'd say it needs to be replaced for sure. A fair amount of muck too.
Click to expand...

LOL if that were my bike, that would be the cleanest chainring in my bike barn.
 
following this thread. I just brought my new Turbo Vado 3.0 back to the LBS for a tuneup after 3 weeks and 260 miles of fairly hilly commuting because it was skipping out of high gear. All seems good now and they didn’t comment on anything unusual with it.

I love riding it and it has transformed my commute, hope it holds up for a few years.
 
rich c: Some would replace it, but I'll wait until it gets to 0.75%. Check out the Park Tool pic attached with their recommendations as to chain replacement.

There might be wear on the chainring but the chain stays on, it's quiet and I don't have to spend more time cleaning it than riding it. The Deckas chainring was only USD35, so it's not like a super expensive Campag or Durace part.

Yep there's a fair amount of muck and in the past I'd have been precious about it too, but not now.

jwb: It is the cleanest chainring in my bike barn. It's the only one now :)
 

Attachments

  • 20180915_093228.jpg
    20180915_093228.jpg
    2.5 MB · Views: 636
Last edited:
Update on the 52T Deckas chainring: unlike the stock 40T sprocket on the Vado 3, the 52T one from ebay doesn't have threads for the four sprocket screws. You'll need them to fasten the chainring to the spider.

I think the 52T is the largest chainring that will fit without interfering with the frame.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Mando Dave
Replaced cassette after 1300 miles Vado 4.0
Replies
13
Views
1K
rich c
rich c
Marais
Chain degreasing and skipping on smallest cog
2
Replies
24
Views
2K
kevinmccune
kevinmccune
Stefan Mikes
Cassette Replacement, Or You Can Teach An Old Dog New Tricks :)
Replies
4
Views
868
fooferdoggie
fooferdoggie
Stefan Mikes
Myth BUSTED: "The Chain Drops On My Specialized E-Bike Because The Chainring Is Praxis WAVE"
2
Replies
29
Views
5K
pete H
pete H
R
Swapped my chainring for a 36T on my Vado SL 4.0
Replies
4
Views
970
Rás Cnoic
R
Back