Hectors Ghost
Active Member
You speak as a child does from one single experience. I have had nothing but good experiences with Forest Service personnel and I interact with them often.
USDA Forest Service Wants Comments
- Thread starter Cowlitz
- Start date
Hectors Ghost
Active Member
380,000 miles of roads are managed by the U.S. Forest Service and all of them are ebike friendly.
Hectors Ghost
Active Member
Sorry that you can't understand but setting a speed limit won't work when so many disregard them and with no one to cite violators.
Hectors Ghost
Active Member
I am... but I agree, I ride single-track all the time and I ride an eTouring bike and not an MTB.
I just saw this. The Forest Service, which is a whole different agency than the Park Service--Forest Service is under Dept. of Agriculture, Park Service is Dept. of the Interior, is considering changing their rules on ebikes and is soliciting comments. Here is the link. At this time, the USFS considers ebikes to be motorized and does not allow them on bicycle trails.
Forest Service Manual 7700 Travel Management; Chapter 7700, Zero Code; Chapter 7710 Travel Planning
The United States Department of Agriculture (USDA), Forest Service, is proposing to revise its directives to update and clarify guidance on management of electric bicycle (e-bike) use on National Forest System (NFS) lands. E-bikes have become increasingly popular nationwide among outdoor...www.federalregister.gov
Paragraph 9 shown below is confusing. Makes it seem like they're considering you can use an ebike if you can show that you are handicapped:
9. Consider emerging technologies (such as e-bikes) that are changing the way people
access and recreate on NFS lands. For example, where suitable for use, e-bikes may
provide new opportunities for individuals who might otherwise be prevented from
experiencing an NFS trail without assistance from an electrical motor.
And this section (6. g.) is confusing. Makes it seem like instead of considering allowed shared use of trails that allow bicycles but not motor vehicles, they're considering ebike only trails. How would they do that? Somewhere they need to make clear that Class 1 bikes are ok on trails that are OK for regular bicycles.
6. Use the following eight categories to identify classes of motor vehicles on an MVUM:
a. Roads Open to Highway-Legal Motor Vehicles Only. These roads are open only to motor vehicles licensed under State law for general operation on all public roads within the State.
b. Roads Open to All Motor Vehicles. These roads are open to all motor vehicles, including smaller off-highway vehicles that may not be licensed for highway use, but not OSVs or vehicles that are oversized or overweight under State traffic law.
c. Trails Open to All Motor Vehicles, Including Both Highway-Legal and Non- Highway-Legal Vehicles.
d. Trails Open to Motor Vehicles 50 Inches or Less in Width.
e. Trails Open to Wheeled Motor Vehicles 50 Inches or Less in Width.
f. Trails Open to Motorcycles Only. Sidecars are not permitted.
h. Special Vehicle Designation. This category includes any classes of vehicles that are not listed in FSM 7711.3, paragraphs 6a through 6g.
g. Trails Open to E-Bikes Only. Specify the class or classes of e-bikes allowed
(Class 1, 2, and/or 3).
Hectors Ghost
Active Member
The federal government already did that in 2002 it's called a Low-Speed Electric Bike (LSEB) and has all the right afforded standard bicycles if you conform with the definition. "MOM! I want a Candy Bar!". "You already have one, go outside and play!" People standing up and asking for something they already have speaks volumes.
elyhim
Active Member
Yes but the policy of USFS is that they are currently motorized. Most private areas follow the USFS designation, where the USFS leads they follow. Changing their policy goes a long way to emtb acceptance.
Apparently it did not get to the level of the FS.
What is the document that defines an ebike as a regular bike at the federal level? Citation?
J.R.
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Piedmont Highlands
The CPSC regs only defines what can be sold as an ebike, not what and where they can be ridden. It has nothing to do with their operation. Prior to that regulation sellers had to apply to the department of transportation. There are pages and pages of documents you can read on the US DOT website about the issue. I have read through many of these documents when preparing arguments to local regulators. It would be nice if the CPSC regs applied, but they do not. Even though it goes against their interests, the bicycle industry newsletter has tried to clear up the issue many times. An attorney for BRAIN wrote the following in 2013 to try and shed light on the issue.
Legal analysis: Confusion over electric bike regulations
Lawyer Steven W. Hansen guides us through a mass of electric bike regulations.
www.bicycleretailer.com
Hectors Ghost
Active Member
"Federal Law Governing Low-Speed Electric Bicycles: Electric-assisted bicycles have been defined and regulated at the federal level since 2002. Public Law 107-319 established that electric bicycles are regulated as consumer products under the Consumer Product Safety Act, and more specifically, subject to the same regulations that govern traditional, human-powered bicycles. Thus, electric bicycles are regulated by the Consumer Product Safety Commission, and must comply with the bicycle safety standards at 16 C.F.R. Part 1512. In addition, electric bicycles are explicitly not “motor vehicles” for the purposes of federal law, and are not subject to National Highway Traffic Safety Administration vehicle standards. As a practical matter, Public Law 107-319 ensures that electric bicycles are designed, manufactured, and tested like traditional bicycles for the purposes of consumer product safety law. The main provisions of Public Law 107-319 are codified at 15 U.S.C. § 2085. Under federal law, an electric bicycle is referred to as a “low-speed electric bicycle,” which is defined as “a two- or three-wheeled vehicle with fully operable pedals and an electric motor of less than 750 watts (1 h.p.), whose maximum speed on a paved level surface, when powered solely by such a motor while ridden by an operator who weighs 170 pounds, is less than 20 mph.” Significantly, this definition provides a maximum assisted speed that an electric bicycle can travel when being powered only by the motor, but does not provide a maximum assisted speed for when an electric bicycle is being powered by a combination of human and motor power. Federal law does not preempt any state traffic laws or vehicle codes. While there is a preemption provision in Public Law 107-319, that provision is limited in scope to product safety regulation. Therefore, Public Law 107-319 has no impact on state traffic laws or vehicle codes, which regulate the use of electric bicycles, and it is still necessary to update these laws to incorporate these devices."
OK - so no car should be able to go over 15mph because that is normally the lowest speed limit in the U.S. and since no one will be on every road to enforce the speed limits we must make no vehicle capable to go over the lowest legal limit???? Great logic there.....
The CPSC regs only defines what can be sold as an ebike, not what and where they can be ridden. It has nothing to do with their operation. Prior to that regulation sellers had to apply to the department of transportation. There are pages and pages of documents you can read on the US DOT website about the issue. I have read through many of these documents when preparing arguments to local regulators. It would be nice if the CPSC regs applied, but they do not. Even though it goes against their interests, the bicycle industry newsletter has tried to clear up the issue many times. An attorney for BRAIN wrote the following in 2013 to try and shed light on the issue.
Legal analysis: Confusion over electric bike regulations
Lawyer Steven W. Hansen guides us through a mass of electric bike regulations.
Thanks.
elyhim
Active Member
Yes, the consumer law defines the product but a case can be made that consumers have expectations to use the product as it is sold (a bicycle) and treat it accordingly. This would apply to public areas as they would default to Congress authority to regulate interstate commerce. Preventing a consumer from using a product in the way it is designed and as Congress has defined and regulated it would likely be a source of litigation. Private property however can make their own rules without regard to the consumer law. In this case the product has not really challenged ANY public or private entities as its problems are generally social problems which will be sorted out as owners grow in numbers - this is now where we are at.
Hectors Ghost
Active Member
It defines what an LSEB is... for sale yes, but the definition is key. Comply with those requirements and your LSEB can ride anywhere bicycles are allowed. That's "Bright" enough for anyone to see and read and need no more light shined on it. The 3 class system is being adopted by more and more states and will eventually be a standard. The problem arises when the majority of rides want a Class-3 ebike (baby electric motorcycle) rather than an LSEB. Since money is the only thing people care about anymore once it's shown that ebike use stimulates the economy there will be no issues. I ride in National Parks and Forests almost weekly and have never had a problem if signage is posted No Bicycles... I don't ride there, but I ride around No Motor Vehicle Allowed signs all the time. You all have the keys to the castle so to speak but don't seems to use them much. Ride safe. https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZA73ajEdnpbzdYWY9The CPSC regs only defines what can be sold as an ebike, not what and where they can be ridden. It has nothing to do with their operation. Prior to that regulation sellers had to apply to the department of transportation. There are pages and pages of documents you can read on the US DOT website about the issue. I have read through many of these documents when preparing arguments to local regulators. It would be nice if the CPSC regs applied, but they do not. Even though it goes against their interests, the bicycle industry newsletter has tried to clear up the issue many times. An attorney for BRAIN wrote the following in 2013 to try and shed light on the issue.
Legal analysis: Confusion over electric bike regulations
Lawyer Steven W. Hansen guides us through a mass of electric bike regulations.
elyhim
Active Member
Agree, however in North Carolina USFS has "No Ebikes" signs on trails. All of the best USF trails in the mountains are off limits. Do people ride them - yes. Will a ranger come and talk with you - yes.
Hectors Ghost
Active Member
Odd... I have never seen a "No Ebike" sign.... ever.
Hectors Ghost
Active Member
Why do you single out MTBs? A bicycle is a bicycle regardless of how/where the rider chooses to ride it. Personally, I don't want any Class-3 ebikes riding any trails where people are walking... period. I have seen too many close calls involving kids and their parents. If a kid can jump up and run into the path of an ebike I believe the rider has the lion share of the responsibility to avoid any injury and trust me parents let them do it all the time.
elyhim
Active Member
Because I only care about EMTB's.
J.R.
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Piedmont Highlands
True. The whole issue gets really crazy when you research it. The USDOT always felt it had jurisdiction over any conveyance with a motor. They are a Cabinet level department, have a lot of power and can act quickly unlike Congress. When the CPSC came out with their regs it was an act of Congress, but it wasn't debated and voted by the full Congress. The DOT didn't like it, but never acted against it. They could have and they would've won. They couldn't do away with the regulations, they would just write new regs that would essentially override the CPSC regs.
The DOT and the FHA under the DOT have been petitioned to do something about class 3 ebikes, since they do not follow the CPSC regs. By default they fall under DOT jurisdiction. So far they've declined to act. They could at anytime take control and write regs for the class 3 bikes that would turn them in to regulated mopeds, requiring DOT approved parts and accessories like brake light, headlight, turn signals, horn, mirrors and much more. That would all but kill off most class 3 bikes, because most manufacturers and consumers wouldn't want to pay the price. The bikes would all be over 100 pounds too.
We have it pretty good now. We are making gains. If things keep moving the way they are, government will have no choice but to include ebikes. When something becomes entrenched with the public, it's much more difficult to get rid of it. Just look at alchohol and marijuana. Class 3 bikes are kind of like marijuana, federally illegal, locally regulated.
Similar threads
