UPP BATTERIES BANNED AND DANGEROUS

[gromike]

Well, he sold me on Lucid cars, but I would need to unretire to pay for one.
That sure is whole a lot of batteries sitting under your bum.

 

[Gionnirocket]

If you look at the spec sheet, you should be able to do a 48v pack with 14 cells.
What I found interesting was the deeper discharge with no worry of cell damage.
That would give you a voltage range of 55.3v to 21v on a 14s "48v" pack...though I don't know how a 48v motor would perform at voltages say below 36v.
And if I'm reading it correctly, the continuous discharge rate seems less than the typical li ion so more cells in parallel would be needed to match performance.

 

[kevinmccune]

I was surprised to see that sodium ion cells are available from sriko, a US based seller
.

26700 Sodium Ion Battery for Sale | Rechargeable Battery

Looking for the best 26700 Sodium Ion Battery in the US? Available at Sriko Batteries, buy sodium batteries from us. We deliver the sodium batteries for cars, 46145 and 26700 rechargeable batteries, sodium ion 46145, etc.

srikobatteries.com

They are only 3.0V. Probably need 16 cells in series for 48V. And the capacity is about 2/3 of Li-ion. I did some numbers and the tradeoff is about a 2.4X increase in size for the same capacity and voltage, ignoring any weight changes.

Seems just as feasible as the LiFePO4 cells. Maybe we'll see them soon in bikes where battery shape/size doesn't impact the styling, like cargo bikes and trikes.

thanks harrys.

 

[tomjasz]

Good to know. I had been looking at those. Think I'm going to build my own when mine dies.

Poke me when you decide. I've got a box of goodies.

 

[tomjasz]

Micah is a nice and knowledgeable guy... But the build videos I watched left me thinking.... Hack.
I've seen much nicer builds on this site by some.

It was once about a dreamy eyed engineer from Israel. Now an electric construction equipment dealer.

Micah didn't endorse the Vruzend kits, he was a part of the company. Which has now disappeared. I have a bunch of them gathering dust.

It's the endorsement of cheap eBikes that turned me sour. WTF?!

 

[micaht]

Electric construction equipment is just one of many fun things I'm working on. I wouldn't say that's who I am. I write books and news about EVs, create educational content, try to take people on first hand experiences of diving into new EV products and visiting the places/factories where those products are made, etc.
As far as e-bike recommendations, I've covered lots of e-bikes in a wide range of prices. I maintain a list of what I think are the best in various budget ranges. There are some cheap e-bikes out there I like, but I try to qualify that they can't compete against the higher dollar alternatives when it comes to things like ruggedness or longevity. But if someone only has $1k or less to spend, and can't afford a nicer bike, I think it's important to talk about which are the best options in that budget range.
There are so many awesome e-bikes out there, more than ever, and the options seem to be ever growing. Of course, there are a lot of fly by night companies and dangerous cheap-o e-bikes too, and so cutting through the noise is important, in my opinion.

 

[kevinmccune]

construction equipment is a natural for various types of electric powered units especially in confined places,oth its nothing new some of the heavies have been electrified for a long time,the good thing is the weight is often an advantage in equipment that has to sit in place,the lack of fumes,less heat,less maintainence no balky ice engines to nurse along are just some of the advantages and the electric drive on a lot of ice equipped units just makes things better even the older units which i consider a "compound" rather than hybrid have considerable advantages in control and effeicency,you just do not hear much boasting about huge direct drive these days,i have worked on on large transmissions in diesel construction equipment and theres a lot to be desired.
welcome micah and keep on sharing your insights-kevin

 

[micaht]

Yea for me it's not even as much the heavy-duty Caterpillar D9 level commercial stuff (though that will be great to replace with electric one day), but more designed for folks that have a bit of land and want a machine to maintain it, or that have a hobby farm, small winery, family ranch, etc. Something that can lift and carry a half ton or a ton, but doesn't cost $50-100k like most John Deere, Kubota, Cat, etc. There is starting to be some interesting electric stuff out there that can begin to compete with the huge diesel machines that are the industry standard, but we're a few years away yet from that becoming more mainstream (plus those full-size electric machines for commercial construction cost like $250k). Even in diesel though, there doesn't seem to be a good option for folks that just have a few acres and don't need an 8-hour run time commercial machine. Something where 4 hours is enough for using several times a week - that's the sweet spot I'm looking to that seems very underserved. To me its sort of an extension of the e-bike and e-motorcycle flow, using moderate-sized electric motors to help replace a lot of the machines we used to rely on for day to day jobs.

 

[Urbancowboy]

In fairness to the "Truth", UPP Batteries have not been "banned". It is one particular type of UPP battery covered by two different model numbers. All other UPP Batteries are not banned, and are still for sale.

It appears that the headings in the Forum(s), and the verbiage in the news articles imply that all UPP batteries are banned, and are "officially" classified as dangerous by the UK regulatorty authority. This is not the positon of the UK regulatory authority issuing the alert.

This does not mean that I endorse the UPP batteries.

Thanks for your clarification. I don't have/use/own a UPP Batterie therefore perhaps some think I should keep my Mouth shut. However I don't like halve truths and Lies, we get enough daily of that from most Politicians and the Media.
Cheers

 

[kevinmccune]

Yea for me it's not even as much the heavy-duty Caterpillar D9 level commercial stuff (though that will be great to replace with electric one day), but more designed for folks that have a bit of land and want a machine to maintain it, or that have a hobby farm, small winery, family ranch, etc. Something that can lift and carry a half ton or a ton, but doesn't cost $50-100k like most John Deere, Kubota, Cat, etc. There is starting to be some interesting electric stuff out there that can begin to compete with the huge diesel machines that are the industry standard, but we're a few years away yet from that becoming more mainstream (plus those full-size electric machines for commercial construction cost like $250k). Even in diesel though, there doesn't seem to be a good option for folks that just have a few acres and don't need an 8-hour run time commercial machine. Something where 4 hours is enough for using several times a week - that's the sweet spot I'm looking to that seems very underserved. To me its sort of an extension of the e-bike and e-motorcycle flow, using moderate-sized electric motors to help replace a lot of the machines we used to rely on for day to day jobs.

caterpillar has been running electric 323 excavators in the scandnavian countries for awhile quite successful it seems,run time around 6hrs on a charge, excavators are machines where heavy weight is an asset,back in the day a local(sorta) cement company used electric"shovels" serviced by pylons electric is coming of age in the construction industry,will probably never replace diesel completely oth it has a ever increasing niche to fill. a canadian startup(edison motors) is producing quite successful hybrid heavy logging trucks.

 

[Art Deco]

caterpillar has been running electric 323 excavators in the scandnavian countries for awhile quite successful it seems,run time around 6hrs on a charge, excavators are machines where heavy weight is an asset,back in the day a local(sorta) cement company used electric"shovels" serviced by pylons electric is coming of age in the construction industry,will probably never replace diesel completely oth it has a ever increasing niche to fill. a canadian startup(edison motors) is producing quite successful hybrid heavy logging trucks.

Any real world report on how long those big batteries last , @kevinmccune .

 

[kevinmccune]

Any real world report on how long those big batteries last , @kevinmccune .

are you talking lifetime or use on the job? you have to understand an excavator is not a terribly efficient machine to begin with,you touch a lever the engine throttles up,so i believe six hours of use-in lieu of counterweights you can put batteries out the wazoo on one of these heavys,cat also started a hybrid system on a larger excavator 336-339? that utilized a hydraulic accumulator to capture lost energy on the swing or rotation on the "car body" savings of up to 25% were claimed in fuel savings,theres always room for improvement on basically anything.

 

[Art Deco]

Actually 6 hours of hard use is really good...I was only expecting about half that based on electric tow motors I have seen.

 

[kevinmccune]

two things,a lot of batteries and i imagine there is regen on the swing,i fueled up a 330 cat with a 3306 diesel engine the fuel was up in the filler neck(around 4 in diameter) i asked the operator to gun it,you actually see the fuel level go down when the engine accelerated. as i mentioned before this is a pretty good app for electric,now in my opinion not so good for a motor patrol( those old graders for whatever reason are pretty efficient machines) if you can actually get 4-500 miles on a tesla semi i would call that a win. check "edison motors" out,these old boys are doing it right on the huge heavy duty log trucks.