Upgrade charger (2018)

[AHicks]

OK, I think I've put 2+2 together now. For this 80-90% charge logic to be successful, you need something like the 300+ dollar Satiator charger from Grin (basically a piece of shop equipment), which allows you to set the shut off voltage (among other things). After reading about it, it's not something you give an average user. You need to know a few things about batteries. Like the fact you need to fully charge the battery on occasion. There is no doubt this is a nice charger, as it looks like it's possible to have both a partial charge profile, and a full charge profile stored in the charger. You will likely have to make an adapter for the output of this charger to fit your particular battery (there are MANY different plugs commonly used!). There's also a mysterious 3rd "signal wire" in this plug, whose purpose/function is not defined in the literature I saw.

Bottom line, this charger and the 80-90% charge it allows (achieved by inputting the voltage you want it to shut down at), is solidly in the "for techies only" category from what I can see. For the average e-bike user, it's something you're going to have to sit down with and learn. For that reason, I don't believe it's for the average/casual user. Much more for the serious hobbyist, possibly somebody with RC experience would do well with it too. My opinion, FWIW. -Al

 

[larry-new]

Here is Rad Power's How to Maximize Battery Life:

https://blog.radpowerbikes.com/how-to-maximize-battery-life

 

[AHicks]

Thanks for posting that Larry. I thought I had read all the stuff from Rad, but somehow managed to miss that article. I agree with it on all points. -Al

 

[tomjasz]

OK, I think I've put 2+2 together now. For this 80-90% charge logic to be successful, you need something like the 300+ dollar Satiator charger from Grin (basically a piece of shop equipment), which allows you to set the shut off voltage (among other things). After reading about it, it's not something you give an average user. You need to know a few things about batteries. Like the fact you need to fully charge the battery on occasion. There is no doubt this is a nice charger, as it looks like it's possible to have both a partial charge profile, and a full charge profile stored in the charger. You will likely have to make an adapter for the output of this charger to fit your particular battery (there are MANY different plugs commonly used!). There's also a mysterious 3rd "signal wire" in this plug, whose purpose/function is not defined in the literature I saw.

Bottom line, this charger and the 80-90% charge it allows (achieved by inputting the voltage you want it to shut down at), is solidly in the "for techies only" category from what I can see. For the average e-bike user, it's something you're going to have to sit down with and learn. For that reason, I don't believe it's for the average/casual user. Much more for the serious hobbyist, possibly somebody with RC experience would do well with it too. My opinion, FWIW. -Al

No you don’t need a Satiator, but there are advantages. A history of charges and battery performance as well as enough date to effectivelytrouble shoot problems is a great feature. Charging your 48 and 52v with the same charger, and at alternative rates is another plus. BUT I have at least a dozen battery customers with nothing but succes with timers. Please, don’t fart off a validtechnique without having the knowledge to show how it could be a failure. I can’t find any well educated battery builde,or user, thatfinds a problem. Please demonstratethefailure and how it fails. Or...well...get off it. I bought mine as a casual user. It’s a valuable tool. But if costs arethat important... I dunno but in my value system, a 300USD charger that can trouble shoot anddoublemybattery life on a battery I have $700 in,seems a good buy. Yup I sell them. Notmanycuz they getthis sort of misguided reviews. That said, atimercanbeaneffectivetool. Nofeedback liketheSatiator, butyouCAN safely charge to varied voltages, SAFELY.

 

[tomjasz]

Here is Rad Power's How to Maximize Battery Life:

https://blog.radpowerbikes.com/how-to-maximize-battery-life

“use the charger that comes with your battery” unless there is a proprietary link between the battery and BMS this is a sales pitch for OEM chargers.

 

[tomjasz]

Jeez, using a timer is like baking.no big
deal. You protest to much!

 

[AHicks]

Maybe consider for just a minute, that not everyone has your background. That just maybe you are preaching a rather advanced technique to lay people.

When it comes to practices like this, and you know what you are doing, then fine, go for it! Consider also, that the stock charger, when used as directed, is a fairly functional well documented process that's not going to lead anyone into harms way.

And I do agree, if you get to know your battery (the percentage of the people willing and able to do that?) you can use a timer (and multimeter) and the 80-90% pan to extend your battery life.

If I may pick your brain, are there other chargers, other that the Satiator, that will shut off at the voltage level of your choice? The timer plan, while it may work out for some, is one I don't find very appealing. -Al

 

[tomjasz]

That Cycle Satiator looks nice but wow it's expensive!

Look at what it does. One chargerdoesitall!

 

[tomjasz]

Using a timer and multimeter is technicall 101. Basic skillsowning anebike unless you’re completely dependent on you LBS.

Maybe consider for just a minute, that not everyone has your background. That just maybe you are preaching a rather advanced technique to lay people.

When it comes to practices like this, and you know what you are doing, then fine, go for it! Consider also, that the stock charger, when used as directed, is a fairly functional well documented process that's not going to lead anyone into harms way.

And I do agree, if you get to know your battery (the percentage of the people willing and able to do that?) you can use a timer (and multimeter) and the 80-90% pan to extend your battery life.

If I may pick your brain, are there other chargers, other that the Satiator, that will shut off at the voltage level of your choice? The timer plan, while it may work out for some, is one I don't find very appealing. -Al

yes. Thechargers from Luna can,but the fail rate and mediocre warranty dissapoint..

 

[tomjasz]

OK, I think I've put 2+2 together now. For this 80-90% charge logic to be successful, you need something like the 300+ dollar Satiator charger from Grin (basically a piece of shop equipment), which allows you to set the shut off voltage (among other things). After reading about it, it's not something you give an average user. You need to know a few things about batteries. Like the fact you need to fully charge the battery on occasion. There is no doubt this is a nice charger, as it looks like it's possible to have both a partial charge profile, and a full charge profile stored in the charger. You will likely have to make an adapter for the output of this charger to fit your particular battery (there are MANY different plugs commonly used!). There's also a mysterious 3rd "signal wire" in this plug, whose purpose/function is not defined in the literature I saw.

Bottom line, this charger and the 80-90% charge it allows (achieved by inputting the voltage you want it to shut down at), is solidly in the "for techies only" category from what I can see. For the average e-bike user, it's something you're going to have to sit down with and learn. For that reason, I don't believe it's for the average/casual user. Much more for the serious hobbyist, possibly somebody with RC experience would do well with it too. My opinion, FWIW. -Al

Good land man, its a remedial skill. I bought mine in my earliest years. Ifyoucanuse a computer, Mac or windoze, and read 8th grade English, it’s a no brainier. It can be a problem if you bought a bike that came with a proprietary charger/BMS. But if you used a modicum of sense andbought aa eBike that didn’t lock you in yo proprietarysystems, it’s veryeasytouse. Please, don’t make a lack of understanding or homework outtobe a products problem. I’m prettythick and sorted it.

 

[AHicks]

Thomas, as requested earlier, let's just agree to disagree here. I get the concept you are suggesting, but I struggle with this idea knowing full well half the users of these bikes haven't even read their owners manuals. I am not saying it won't work, or that somebody that want's to get into this can't learn it. -Al

 

[tomjasz]

Thomas, as requested earlier, let's just agree to disagree here. I get the concept you are suggesting, but I struggle with this idea knowing full well half the users of these bikes haven't even read their owners manuals. I am not saying it won't work, or that somebody that want's to get into this can't learn it. -Al

My experience with scores of DIY customers demonstrates riders are brighter than you credit them with being. But I do see the pointKit builders trend to be more willing to learn and research.

 

[MadManMark]

I have friends with ebikes that are extremely bright, with PhDs in psychology and literature, law degrees, and so on, all very educated and successful. But that does not mean that they know/have an interest in understanding the electrical system of their bikes or know how to use a voltmeter. Perhaps they could learn, but it's just never been a priority. Please don't conflate intelligence with the ability or even interest to do DIY work on your bike, IMO these are separate things (I also suspect that conversely, if it appeals to you then one can do DIY bike work even if you're not particularly "bright").

 

[tomjasz]

I have friends with ebikes that are extremely bright, with PhDs in psychology and literature, law degrees, and so on, all very educated and successful. But that does not mean that they know/have an interest in understanding the electrical system of their bikes or know how to use a voltmeter. Perhaps they could learn, but it's just never been a priority. Please don't conflate intelligence with the ability or even interest to do DIY work on your bike, IMO these are separate things (I also suspect that conversely, if it appeals to you then one can do DIY bike work even if you're not particularly "bright").

I have no issue with someone choosing to use their LBS for all service. I'm suggesting learning to turn a dial, push a button, and read voltage can save a trip...or not. I answer scores of calls every month form riders that want to understand their problem and aren't happy with their seller. Since we answer or call back every call for help our free phone support some days is slammed with buyers from other resellers and bike builders. I have no interest in working on my Camry, but I do have a trouble code reader that helps me keep track and have a somewhat intelligent discussion with the mechanic. As always, YMMV.

 

[AHicks]

My hat is off to you Thomas. Supporting all those calls is generally a PIA, so you really have to enjoy what you are doing to endure that. -Al

 

[tomjasz]

My hat is off to you Thomas. Supporting all those calls is generally a PIA, so you really have to enjoy what you are doing to endure that. -Al

Retired, with a passion to continue learning. All is good as long as its fun. I get in far less trouble in conversation. Threads and email are so easily misunderstood.

 

[AHicks]

Retired and yearning for learning as well, but I absolutely HATE dealing with retail. That takes the patience of a saint - and I lost that WAY back, with people anyway.

 

[larry-new]

I try to give the LBS a chance...went in for a 50 t. chainring...they had a 46t mislabeled as 48, and said they couldn't even ORDER a 50t, as it showed out of stock!

So I went home, and you know the rest...it'll be here tomorrow.

 

[AHicks]

Larry, so typical....