Undertaking legal actions against Watt Wagons

Right or wrong? So on one hand the only way to get a refund from this company is to hire an attorney and then the next post complains about people picking on poor Pushkar, a guy you have to sue to get a refund from.


That being said I believe that is exactly what online daddy said he was doing at the end of the month.
 
I understand the pain, I got burned on a watch down payment on a new model(I am a watch collector) it was about $250.
Basically stole my money, 15 emails, many failed phone calls, and several dozen posts to forums and 2 years later I wrote it off. You have to catch things fast or the credit card companies won't help you.
Being ripped off is the worst feeling, not sure why you aren't getting 100% of your money back from WW, I wish you success in working things out.
Either way this is bad PR for WW.

Something else of concern, Pushkar used to post here weekly and we have not seen one post from him this year, I understand he is running a business and has less time, but then you hear stuff like this and it makes you wonder.
 
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Birth of an investor's Class Action Lawsuit? How many (what percentage) of investors are in the same boat?
 
arcom said:
Birth of an investor's Class Action Lawsuit? How many (what percentage) of investors are in the same boat?
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I'm a founder, but I've never considered myself an investor. I didn't invest in the company-I bought an ebike (actually two).
Way back in 2020 Pushkar offered to sell me two ebikes. I chose the components, frame size, and colour, and paid in full (full payment reduced the price of the ebike).
The initial plan was that the bikes would be built and delivery by the early Fall of 2020.
To me, that's a customer purchasing a product, not investing in the company.
 
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Here's a summary of what happened:

Founders crowdsourced a bike
Terms were no refunds
Founder funds were used to purchase parts / invest in frame molds
Frame design was switched from aluminum to CF
Refund option was offered to founders at that point if they did not agree to changes
CF frame didn't work out (manufacturer allegedly sold initial batch of frames to another buyer after shipping snafu and declined to produce more frames as CF production capacity was bought out by another company in the midst of the pandemic)
Founders were not informed until months after the fact / communication deteriorated in founder forum
Search for new CF manufacturer ensued, with subsequent frame design changes
Options for founders were continue to wait for helios, switch to hydra or another bike, or refund with caveat that money was tied up in parts and refund would take months
6+ months later those opting for refunds are still waiting for last staggered refund
Parts suppliers are allegedly slow to refund despite inventory being returned (Pushkar asked founders to give him until the end of the month)
 
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FWIW, founders had the option to pay a smaller deposit up front, in lieu of a larger discount. I consider my purchase to have been an investment in that regard. No, not an investment in the company, per se, although it's not too far from the current situation as WW's legal position is founder funds were used to purchase parts, and money will be returned as parts are refunded. While legal action may ensure that happens in the priority it should, I'm not sure it would get founders their refunds any sooner. Seems to be a case of throwing good money after bad as I'm not even sure the cost of a lawyer would be less than refunds outstanding.
 
Even with the no refunds, the ftc rules would supersede all of that. A timeframe was given and after a 30 day grace period a refund had to be offered and refund promptly granted. I would assume that with online daddy’s complaint to the ma. AG that is what path they will be perusing. These are protections that are offered to consumers so that they do not have to hire an attorney to go after unethical companies.

I completely understand that times are tough, but you have to run your business by the laws in place. When you decide to open and internet, online ordering business, you need to be aware of the laws and follow them.

And people need to understand that when Pushkar asked for the end of the month that was after he originally asked for the middle of Feb and then went Underground for weeks after his deadline came and went.
 
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Deacon Blues said:
I'm a founder, but I've never considered myself an investor. I didn't invest in the company-I bought an ebike (actually two).
Way back in 2020 Pushkar offered to sell me two ebikes. I chose the components, frame size, and colour, and paid in full (full payment reduced the price of the ebike).
The initial plan was that the bikes would be built and delivery by the early Fall of 2020.
To me, that's a customer purchasing a product, not investing in the company.
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Oh Please, what do I know about buying a pig in a poke.
Show the sales contract for two electric bikes you signed.
 
Show me an invoice for any thing from any one relevant to this whining blather and defamation arrows in the back of a pioneer.

Because, as far as I'm concerned, I like the WW company and everyone on their brave and innovative team.
Drivel about some supposed regulations in some assumed legal trade jurisdiction about a commodity (not) is a display of ignorance worthy of mocking.
 
@Mike_V stop the fanboyism. If you want the company to succeed then addressing these issues should be a top priority. You think you're championing 'pioneers' but in reality you're damaging the brand [even more] by association with your unconstructive trolling.

I literally have a sales receipt for my motor that shows I paid for 2 day shipping with USPS. Didn't get that.

I have an email from WW two days after I placed my order telling me ~2 week lead time. Didn't get that.

I have a response from WW after asking them what was up with my order, they said delays and will ship in 2-3 weeks. Didn't get that.

I reach out again to WW to check in on the order, and was told 'will ship this Friday' - didn't get that.

I reach out again weeks later to check in on my order. Still waiting on motors, expected by end of October. Didn't get that.

I reach out to them in November and am told motors came in but they are waiting on controllers. For some reason they had controllers to put in the motors that ship with Hydra Black frames that were ordered many weeks after I placed my order - none was set aside for my order. I get told End of January. Didn't get that.

I reach out to them again and am told end of April, that I'm first on the list. I tell them of my situation and that I'm unable to receive mail at my new property at the time and would provide them with an address, just to reach out to me by email - they say they will call before shipping. Didn't get that.

So now I had to spend extra to get my order diverted to UPS pickup location, and instead of 2-day shipping it's 4 day shipping. Hopefully picking it up tomorrow, after a drive accross town I shouldn't have to take. I'm going to make a day of it and pickup lunch too.
I've got the receipts, I've got the emails, I've got the lies, I've got the not-USPS-2-day-tracking number pointing to my old place, and there's multiple threads in this forum of people who have received their bike and posted their order date which in some cases was months after mine, as well as multiple people complaining about the same lack of communication and refusal to issue refunds.

You're nobody but a fanboy trolling rightly aggrieved people defending shoddy business practices and nobody owes you any evidence in this thread since you're not even involved to the point of having any power to fix anything. Consumers like you are the exact type of people shoddy businessmen love - you bit the 'pioneer' angle (they did not develop nor produce the Innotrace controller which is the only thing that sets these bikes apart, they only pioneered being the first to work out a licensing deal to be exclusing NA suppliers) and you attack customers who've been swindled or shortchanged (swindled) by them.

Do you even have a WW product or an order with them?
 
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Mike V Another member to ignore. "Because I like the WW Company and everyone on their brave and innovative team" Pioneer? EH up in El Segundo was doing this long before WW rolled in on the scene. Ultra motors have been around for awhile so that's nothing new. The Archon X1 controller is definetly a positive step forward but that's the INNOTRACE company based out of Germany that teamed up with WW to distribute in the US.
Brother there have been a ton of companies that don't practice good business ethics for whatever reason but it always boils down to the main and only issue... $$$ plain and simple. What are some guys asking for and what aren't they getting, I rest my case.

WW not bothering to respond on THEIR own forum tells you everything you need to know.

I think Mr. P wanted to do a good thing at the start, but I would imagine now that he has monetary investors telling him which line to tow. That's one of the realities when you go to big to fast.
Some of you guys have the patience of Job.
Even though I live on the left coast if I was owed money legitimately and kept getting strung along make no mistake I would of shown up at the doorstep in person. It's harder to lie to someone face to face in my experience.

Posting up about a lawsuit, hmm I probably wouldn't of done that but that's me. But I would of PM'd anybody I thought might have a dog in the fight to give them a heads up.
Good on ya guys I hope it works out for the better.
 
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@greeno
WW not bothering to respond on THEIR own forum tells you everything you need to know.
Click to expand...
Yeah this has me very concerned for the brands future, it's like he just gave up posting on here.
Facebook is still active however.
 
greeno said:
Mike V Another member to ignore. "Because I like the WW Company and everyone on their brave and innovative team" Pioneer? EH up in El Segundo was doing this long before WW rolled in on the scene. Ultra motors have been around for awhile so that's nothing new. The Archon X1 controller is definetly a positive step forward but that's the INNOTRACE company based out of Germany that teamed up with WW to distribute in the US.
Brother there have been a ton of companies that don't practice good business ethics for whatever reason but it always boils down to the main and only issue... $$$ plain and simple. What are some guys asking for and what aren't they getting, I rest my case.

WW not bothering to respond on THEIR own forum tells you everything you need to know.

I think Mr. P wanted to do a good thing at the start, but I would imagine now that he has monetary investors telling him which line to tow. That's one of the realities when you go to big to fast.
Some of you guys have the patience of Job.
Even though I live on the left coast if I was owed money legitimately and kept getting strung along make no mistake I would of shown up at the doorstep in person. It's harder to lie to someone face to face in my experience.

Posting up about a lawsuit, hmm I probably wouldn't of done that but that's me. But I would of PM'd anybody I thought might have a dog in the fight to give them a heads up.
Good on ya guys I hope it works out for the better.
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I wouldn’t have announced it on a public forum either. I would have just done it and kept it to myself.
 
Cuz Vinny said:
I wouldn’t have announced it on a public forum either. I would have just done it and kept it to myself.
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Really?

This is clearly a situation where thousands of dollars were collected from willing participants and years later there is no product. Calling out someone for posting their attempts to get a refund on the unfulfilled promises of the company in question is nonsense. It is both appropriate and helpful for other prospective customers of WW to know how they do business.
 
RMK! said:
Really?

This is clearly a situation where thousands of dollars were collected from willing participants and years later there is no product. Calling out someone for posting their attempts to get a refund on the unfulfilled promises of the company in question is nonsense. It is both appropriate and helpful for other prospective customers of WW to know how they do business.
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I’m not calling anyone out. All I said was if it were me I wouldn’t post I did it on a public forum.
 
I'm just going to give the lowdown on what most any competent and ethical lawyer would say about this case:

It looks to me like you were badly taken advantage of and screwed out of five thousand (or more) dollars. But from what you have told me and in general it is very unlikely a judge will award treble damages or attorney's fees in a case like this. So where that leaves you is that you are proposing to pay me a bunch of money, certainly much more than $5000, to recover $5000. And there is no guarantee that you will win the case or that you can successfully collect damages even if you do win. What you do is, of course, up to you but I don't recommend pursuing this case.
Click to expand...
References:

www.thebalancesmb.com

7 Things To Know Before Taking a Case to Court

What you need to know about the civil litigation process and your part in that process as a business person.
www.thebalancesmb.com www.thebalancesmb.com
 
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