Undertaking legal actions against Watt Wagons
- Thread starter onlineaddy
- Start date
pushkar
Well-Known Member
There is a lot more. However I want to show the real thing as opposed to sketches.
pushkar
Well-Known Member
I hope so too ! For their mental health and ours!
Its not pretty for sure - but the way forward is to get the payments done. Cant wait to put this behind us.
Well let's hope that the check actually arrives soon, the refunds are finished up, and then there's only the future deal with. Everyone can go their separate ways.
Edit: Yep - exactly as Pushkar just said above.
If the numbers line up, then this would indeed be simply waiting for Gates, who appears to have lied a few times about sending the check out. I couldn't follow the email screenshots though - the timestamps shown in one vs the next email reply got me confused. I'd be calling and emailing that company weekly until they honored the refund - if the parts were received, there's no reason for them to take months to send a check out. Then again...Gates would probably use the go-to "covid/supply chain/economy" excuse for not having the funds themselves, even if they are a larger, established company.
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Deacon Blues
Well-Known Member
There's a few of us founders still hanging in there. Personally, I'd rather wait for a bike than get the refund, but I understand why other founders went the refund route.
rich c
Well-Known Member
I have no dog in this fight, but have never read a business owner attach a customer on an open forum. Telling customers they have to wait until funds show up also a poor practice. I bought a Ruffian Cruiser from Germany. It was poorly assembled at the US dealer and had a list of issues. After some emails and a phone call, they sent a completely new bike to a local Trek dealer and covered everything. I call that proper customer service. A simple refund would have made this WW situation go away a long time ago, fighting about it certainly will cost business problems 10 fold. When I owned a small business, the best advice I had was a happy customer will tell 20 people about your company, a mad customer will tell 200. That advise is not new!
tomjasz
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Minnesnowta
An American bike seller has 532 bike but NONE of the parts needed to finish and meet sales. It’s still a nightmare for many small builders.
Pushkar is a straight shooter. These are horrible times. We’re waiting to recover a $12,000 payment for a $24,000 order to be refunded. No vender has any power to impact Chinese sellers. We may never see the dollars refunded. The nature of the beast. But none of us would be willing to pay the price of an USA frame and then stuck waiting for parts no one in the USA produces.
Forums are filled with opinions from people who only admire the worth of knowledge gleaned from questionable internet sources. The world of sellers ain’t Amazon and can’t send returns to rod grinder or eat products some n00b fucked up and want to return for total refund. Thousands of emails an support phone calls has made me cynical. And tired of this forum and others for allowing these clueless dudes diatribes.
I wish the parts and bike supply chains would improve. I personally gave up a sweet profit sharing srrangement after 6 years primarily because the idiot factor got overwhelming. Arguments like, “I read it online…” or comments here. A shame pushkar couldn’t sue for slander as some of you are getting close…
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Pushkar is a straight shooter. These are horrible times. We’re waiting to recover a $12,000 payment for a $24,000 order to be refunded. No vender has any power to impact Chinese sellers. We may never see the dollars refunded. The nature of the beast. But none of us would be willing to pay the price of an USA frame and then stuck waiting for parts no one in the USA produces.
Forums are filled with opinions from people who only admire the worth of knowledge gleaned from questionable internet sources. The world of sellers ain’t Amazon and can’t send returns to rod grinder or eat products some n00b fucked up and want to return for total refund. Thousands of emails an support phone calls has made me cynical. And tired of this forum and others for allowing these clueless dudes diatribes.
I wish the parts and bike supply chains would improve. I personally gave up a sweet profit sharing srrangement after 6 years primarily because the idiot factor got overwhelming. Arguments like, “I read it online…” or comments here. A shame pushkar couldn’t sue for slander as some of you are getting close…
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Call me internet warrior all you want. I call bullshit. The math doesn’t work and part of being a straight shooter is keeping the customer informed of the problems. Not setting a timeframe, letting it pass and only resurfacing after public pressure.
At one point during the winter of 21 we were 3 weeks away from shipping. Never mind that we had to wait for a month after that deadline to find out that the frames no longer existed. At that time everything was in except the frames so none of the mezzer pro forks went on to any of the hydras? None of the kidernays that are back ordered through 23 went on to any of the bikes? The magura brakes that were so hard to source, they all went back? The ultra motor and controllers that one guy waited a year for, they all went back? All the stuff for the founders bikes were not used on other builds? So after returning all of that, fork, hub, brakes, motor, controller, the founders get roughly 1/2 their money back and when the gates check comes in the rest will be refunded.
That math doesn’t add up. You say your just stating the facts. The facts are the money was paid and nothing was made.
At one point during the winter of 21 we were 3 weeks away from shipping. Never mind that we had to wait for a month after that deadline to find out that the frames no longer existed. At that time everything was in except the frames so none of the mezzer pro forks went on to any of the hydras? None of the kidernays that are back ordered through 23 went on to any of the bikes? The magura brakes that were so hard to source, they all went back? The ultra motor and controllers that one guy waited a year for, they all went back? All the stuff for the founders bikes were not used on other builds? So after returning all of that, fork, hub, brakes, motor, controller, the founders get roughly 1/2 their money back and when the gates check comes in the rest will be refunded.
That math doesn’t add up. You say your just stating the facts. The facts are the money was paid and nothing was made.
tomjasz
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Minnesnowta
More gutless posts from posters hiding behind a nom deplume.
Please point out any statements that you think count as liable. I certainly don’t think that is anyone’s intention.
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Since then the founders waiting on refunds have stayed in contact. Most of them are scared to come on here for fear that their refund will be even slower played. One in particular has had a rough go of it. If he had his bike he would sell it to make ends meet. I guess I just feel bad for them.
Stuck waiting on some money that always seems to get pushed out a little longer. I have never heard or seen such poor business practices. The idea that these guys purchasing a bike have their refunds tied to returns is just dumbfounding. There are multiple laws in place dealing with refunds. None make that distinction.
I think we all had more faith in WW then that. It seemed like such a good reputable company. What could go wrong? In the end the hope that they were prepared for this was misplaced. They started a project that they literally had no idea of what they were dealing with. Designing a bike and building it in 6 months. Switching to carbon, don’t worry will only add 3 more months, switching to full suspension. That will take 4 months. They are now 2 years into it and still
haven’t produced a bike. I don’t think that timeframe is at all out of wack with the industry. The problem is that WW sold it and were either misleading (which I don’t think they were) or had no idea what they were in for. That is not what was signed up for and the idea that the founders not only got jerked around on the build but are now getting jerked around on the refund is just wrong.
In the end we all post on here because we want to. As far as I know, I have not lied about anything. Just told the facts about a company and a small group of guys that are getting screwed. I don’t got to other message boards. I stay off of the other posts on here about hydras and the likes. But when their is a thread dealing with updates and refunds and people jump all over the guy posting, I like add my 2 cents for what I know to be true.
I used to feel sorry for Pushkar. Nice fella, very excited and great to talk to, but when the board stopped praising his every move and started to rightfully call him out about the lack of transparency and missed “worst case scenario” timeframes, he went Mia. That would be perfectly fine if we didn’t owe some people some money.
i took the parts and ran when the frames that were in transit disappeared. By that time I felt lied to and the communication had already gotten very sparse. I was tired of hearing from wife and friends about “my dream bike” being one big scam.
Since then the founders waiting on refunds have stayed in contact. Most of them are scared to come on here for fear that their refund will be even slower played. One in particular has had a rough go of it. If he had his bike he would sell it to make ends meet. I guess I just feel bad for them.
Stuck waiting on some money that always seems to get pushed out a little longer. I have never heard or seen such poor business practices. The idea that these guys purchasing a bike have their refunds tied to returns is just dumbfounding. There are multiple laws in place dealing with refunds. None make that distinction.
I think we all had more faith in WW then that. It seemed like such a good reputable company. What could go wrong? In the end the hope that they were prepared for this was misplaced. They started a project that they literally had no idea of what they were dealing with. Designing a bike and building it in 6 months. Switching to carbon, don’t worry will only add 3 more months, switching to full suspension. That will take 4 months. They are now 2 years into it and still
haven’t produced a bike. I don’t think that timeframe is at all out of wack with the industry. The problem is that WW sold it and were either misleading (which I don’t think they were) or had no idea what they were in for. That is not what was signed up for and the idea that the founders not only got jerked around on the build but are now getting jerked around on the refund is just wrong.
In the end we all post on here because we want to. As far as I know, I have not lied about anything. Just told the facts about a company and a small group of guys that are getting screwed. I don’t got to other message boards. I stay off of the other posts on here about hydras and the likes. But when their is a thread dealing with updates and refunds and people jump all over the guy posting, I like add my 2 cents for what I know to be true.
I used to feel sorry for Pushkar. Nice fella, very excited and great to talk to, but when the board stopped praising his every move and started to rightfully call him out about the lack of transparency and missed “worst case scenario” timeframes, he went Mia. That would be perfectly fine if we didn’t owe some people some money.
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If you got a full refund of your money or took parts then you have no say in the game. Your issue has been resolved but yet you jump in every thread spewing negativity when someone has a problem or an issue. I seriously hope Pushkar has the means to go after some of you for slander. You think your helping but actually your making it worse by causing Pushkar to lose potential sales and income which could be used to pay back funds. I’ve said my peace and won’t comment further.
Mods need to close or delete this post. It’s gone way beyond being useful.
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rich c
Well-Known Member
show me where you haven't chimed in and voiced an open opinion. This is an open forum and as far as I can see, it's still a free speech forum to voice an opinion. You aren't a moderator, keep your shitty attacks to yourself. Also show me where your opinions aren't one sided! I operated a small business for 8 years, I know how it works.
onlineaddy
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
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- San Diego, CA, USA
What makes you the expert on the usefulness of a post? Everything I've posted here is a statement of fact. It is useful to me and to others considering this brand/company. Pushkar doesn't respond to messages anywhere else. He barely communicates here but finally does. I say this post is useful and needed. Stop trying to censor others holding an opposite point of view.
I'll turn the table around and ask: what is your say in the game?
I have posted on here multiple times that if anyone has any reason to think I am lying to please inform me so that I can delete it. I am in no way trying to slander anyone. If the truth is uncomfortable that doesn’t make it slander.
I had an 15 month failed transaction with this company. I have as much right to post in a suing the company thread as you do. Maybe even more so. At least I have insight on why this is going down, do you?
Trust me, I loose all interest in this company when the remaining founders get their money back.
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Your intent with this post was to show the steps you have taken or will take to get your funds back. Now it’s just a show of nonsense. That’s why it’s not useful. I’m done here. Peace
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