Ultra bikes pas
- Thread starter vincent
- Start date
Four Corners
Member
Would be good to get screen shots of the last parameters on the torque screen as well as the other screens for comparison. I'll play around with it when my Frey CC arrives in a few months but maybe eBikeaholic can do some comparisons as he seems game to test for science.
The screen shots I submitted show everything on the torque page.
Ebiker33
Well-Known Member
Is that for the Ultra 1000 with 26 X 4 tires?
TomD
Well-Known Member
That would be a question for the person that posted the Biktrix settings but I doubt Biktrix is varying it by tire size. The 350W max and 1000W ultra are the only Bafang motors that have torque sensing that can be programmed by this utility so this is what the screen is for. I don't know if the 350W max has different stock settings but these are the stock settings for the ultra. I think the idea is to smooth out some of the jerkiness of the stock settings not to refine it for any specific tire size or bike.
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vincent
Well-Known Member
well I had a couple of hours to mess with the programming
fyi am using the egg rider which really makes this much easier
this is on my wattwagon with rohloff but mine is fs and has a chain- it feels like the motor is taking up chain slack... but you do not get this if you turn the power off so it is just the motor kicking in
my goal here was to see if any of these changes would get rid of the clunk at low speed start up, so basically all my testing was pas 1 from barely moving or a stop
tried the biktrix torque settings here and no change at all using eco- sport seemed the same but a little stronger
tried some mtn bike settings from a guy on es- changed all of the settings the same as his
using the egg rider maybe very slight drop off in the clunk but not much
but what is weird is with these settings going back to the eco/sport display it did slow down the clunk, bike was pretty slow like barely helping but did help with the clunk
I am mostly deaf and these videos are not captioned for the most part, going to see if a friend can help me understand more about the settings and what they do
will have some time to ride and try other stuff if anyone has suggestions
fyi am using the egg rider which really makes this much easier
this is on my wattwagon with rohloff but mine is fs and has a chain- it feels like the motor is taking up chain slack... but you do not get this if you turn the power off so it is just the motor kicking in
my goal here was to see if any of these changes would get rid of the clunk at low speed start up, so basically all my testing was pas 1 from barely moving or a stop
tried the biktrix torque settings here and no change at all using eco- sport seemed the same but a little stronger
tried some mtn bike settings from a guy on es- changed all of the settings the same as his
using the egg rider maybe very slight drop off in the clunk but not much
but what is weird is with these settings going back to the eco/sport display it did slow down the clunk, bike was pretty slow like barely helping but did help with the clunk
I am mostly deaf and these videos are not captioned for the most part, going to see if a friend can help me understand more about the settings and what they do
will have some time to ride and try other stuff if anyone has suggestions
Four Corners
Member
Perhaps your lowest non-zero pedal assist level is too high for your particular drive train. I'd think chain slack would not matter, since the drive tension is on the non-slack part of the chain.
vincent
Well-Known Member
hmm tried to watch the above video on my iphone and it did not show the captions, but tried again with my macbook and they are there
great write up and i may get the bike out and check my settings against what he has here and with the info he lists about what the settings do
great write up and i may get the bike out and check my settings against what he has here and with the info he lists about what the settings do
Four Corners
Member
The Biktrix torque settings I supplied are not correct. I think. I did not first click the Read button. So, who knows what those values are? I am attaching screen shots made after reading the motor settings. It seems very odd that the app, when first connecting to the EggRider, would not read the current settings. It does show the PAS settings which I previously changed. When I changed them I read the motor settings before making changes. Then the settings were written back. I do not understand why I would see any settings other than those most recently written. But, software engineers are unpredictable. I should know.
Attachments
Four Corners
Member
Please see the corrected torque page screen shots
Four Corners
Member
And, for good luck, here are the Bafang pedal settings.
Mode, Road or Off Road, does not affect the settings as shown. Likely you could have a different set of pedal values for each mode. Don't know and, so far, have no reason to care. Speaking of modes, the two modes can be labeled in EggRider Eco/Sport or Road/Off Road. They are just labels, and each mode can be given the various values you want.
Mode, Road or Off Road, does not affect the settings as shown. Likely you could have a different set of pedal values for each mode. Don't know and, so far, have no reason to care. Speaking of modes, the two modes can be labeled in EggRider Eco/Sport or Road/Off Road. They are just labels, and each mode can be given the various values you want.
Attachments
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Four Corners
Member
I am mystified
eBikeaholic
New Member
Yeah thanks for doing that I think comparing these should help us figure this out.
You'll notice that the only 6 rows I changed from stock are:
Start (kg) | Full (kg) | Return (kg)
MinCur (%) | MaxCur (%) | KeepCur (%)
I walk through the relationships for these in the video I posted above. My goal was to change as little as possible to get a consistent power flow when cruising at speed. I'm under the impression that the simplest way to do this is to set the first two (kg) rows to gradually decrease, and the Return (kg) to all 0's.
I posted this in the electricbike forum a few weeks ago, might be helpful:
As far as I understand it, the Start(Kg) is how much pressure you initially put on the pedal which then triggers the MinCur(%), which is basically the amount of power the motor will get (I think it uses the Limit current % from the Basic tab which sets the PAS levels). Notice I have the MinCur(%) set to gradually increase across the matrix, this is because I think the Spd0-Spd100 columns represent how fast the pedals are spinning (cadence sensor?)... or it might be the motor rpms? Start(Kg) decreases across the row so less pedal torque is needed to power the motor.
Full(Kg) is how much pressure is on the pedals while moving which then triggers the MaxCur(%). I have all these set to 100 across the board to keep the power consistently maxed out to whatever PAS level is set on the display. Full(Kg) steadily decreases across to require less torque needed to power the motor.
I think Return(Kg) is when you stop pedaling and coast for a bit, then start pedaling again which triggers KeepCur(%). I set this row to match MinCur(%) because it can't be higher and it serves a similar purpose for a smooth power transition. Return(Kg) is set to 0 so the motor will run while ghost pedaling at speed.
Back to the comparison to Biktrix:
Biktrix increased 'Error Max' and '0 Speed Boost Time'. I don't understand these so didn't touch em.
Biktrix decreased the Delta Voltages. I'm not sure but I would assume that these might be used to translate the frequency of the torque sensor from an electric value (mV) to a pressure value (kg)? You'll notice when connected to the Bafang programming, if you click the continuous get button and step on the pedal it will change the 'TqVoltate (mV)' in the box at the bottom. This must be the measurement of pressure applied to the pedal. The Delta voltage matrix must then allow you to dial in the sensitivity of the torque sensor.
I don't understand these enough or see any reason to touch em, but I'm sure Biktrix spent more time working on this than I did.
As for the Spd settings I tried to highlight the differences in the comparison table that tomdav made. Changes from stock are Bold. The most notable differences between mine and Biktrix are highlighted in Red. My MinCur and KeepCur changes are more extreme and gradually increase. I'm not sure if that's necessary... I haven't test ridden a Biktrix yet so not sure how their programming feels. Their Ultra bike also has fat tires and multiple gears, my bike does not.
You'll also notice the similarity that in both mine and the Biktrix settings the Start (kg) slowly decreases. Perhaps that's all that's required for consistent power?
What else am I missing?
Maybe someone who's messing around with these settings can compare how they feel? Unfortunately I'm happy with my settings so I don't plan to change them any time soon.
You'll notice that the only 6 rows I changed from stock are:
Start (kg) | Full (kg) | Return (kg)
MinCur (%) | MaxCur (%) | KeepCur (%)
I walk through the relationships for these in the video I posted above. My goal was to change as little as possible to get a consistent power flow when cruising at speed. I'm under the impression that the simplest way to do this is to set the first two (kg) rows to gradually decrease, and the Return (kg) to all 0's.
I posted this in the electricbike forum a few weeks ago, might be helpful:
As far as I understand it, the Start(Kg) is how much pressure you initially put on the pedal which then triggers the MinCur(%), which is basically the amount of power the motor will get (I think it uses the Limit current % from the Basic tab which sets the PAS levels). Notice I have the MinCur(%) set to gradually increase across the matrix, this is because I think the Spd0-Spd100 columns represent how fast the pedals are spinning (cadence sensor?)... or it might be the motor rpms? Start(Kg) decreases across the row so less pedal torque is needed to power the motor.
Full(Kg) is how much pressure is on the pedals while moving which then triggers the MaxCur(%). I have all these set to 100 across the board to keep the power consistently maxed out to whatever PAS level is set on the display. Full(Kg) steadily decreases across to require less torque needed to power the motor.
I think Return(Kg) is when you stop pedaling and coast for a bit, then start pedaling again which triggers KeepCur(%). I set this row to match MinCur(%) because it can't be higher and it serves a similar purpose for a smooth power transition. Return(Kg) is set to 0 so the motor will run while ghost pedaling at speed.
Back to the comparison to Biktrix:
Biktrix increased 'Error Max' and '0 Speed Boost Time'. I don't understand these so didn't touch em.
Biktrix decreased the Delta Voltages. I'm not sure but I would assume that these might be used to translate the frequency of the torque sensor from an electric value (mV) to a pressure value (kg)? You'll notice when connected to the Bafang programming, if you click the continuous get button and step on the pedal it will change the 'TqVoltate (mV)' in the box at the bottom. This must be the measurement of pressure applied to the pedal. The Delta voltage matrix must then allow you to dial in the sensitivity of the torque sensor.
I don't understand these enough or see any reason to touch em, but I'm sure Biktrix spent more time working on this than I did.
As for the Spd settings I tried to highlight the differences in the comparison table that tomdav made. Changes from stock are Bold. The most notable differences between mine and Biktrix are highlighted in Red. My MinCur and KeepCur changes are more extreme and gradually increase. I'm not sure if that's necessary... I haven't test ridden a Biktrix yet so not sure how their programming feels. Their Ultra bike also has fat tires and multiple gears, my bike does not.
You'll also notice the similarity that in both mine and the Biktrix settings the Start (kg) slowly decreases. Perhaps that's all that's required for consistent power?
What else am I missing?
Maybe someone who's messing around with these settings can compare how they feel? Unfortunately I'm happy with my settings so I don't plan to change them any time soon.
| Spd0 | Stock | eBikeaholic | Biktrix | ||||||||||||||||
| Start (kg) | 20 | 20 | 15 | ||||||||||||||||
| Full (kg) | 50 | 50 | 50 | ||||||||||||||||
| Return (kg) | 12 | 0 | 12 | ||||||||||||||||
| MinCur (%) | 10 | 20 | 20 | ||||||||||||||||
| MaxCur (%) | 100 | 100 | 100 | ||||||||||||||||
| KeepCur (%) | 4 | 20 | 10 | ||||||||||||||||
| CurDecay | 3 | 3 | 3 | ||||||||||||||||
| StartDegree | 1 | 1 | 1 | ||||||||||||||||
| Spd20 | |||||||||||||||||||
| Start (kg) | 16 | 16 | 12 | ||||||||||||||||
| Full (kg) | 45 | 40 | 45 | ||||||||||||||||
| Return (kg) | 9 | 0 | 10 | ||||||||||||||||
| MinCur (%) | 10 | 40 | 15 | ||||||||||||||||
| MaxCur (%) | 100 | 100 | 100 | ||||||||||||||||
| KeepCur (%) | 4 | 40 | 8 | ||||||||||||||||
| CurDecay | 3 | 3 | 3 | ||||||||||||||||
| StartDegree | 1 | 1 | 1 | ||||||||||||||||
| Spd40 | |||||||||||||||||||
| Start (kg) | 12 | 8 | 9 | ||||||||||||||||
| Full (kg) | 40 | 30 | 40 | ||||||||||||||||
| Return (kg) | 6 | 0 | 7 | ||||||||||||||||
| MinCur (%) | 15 | 60 | 10 | ||||||||||||||||
| MaxCur (%) | 100 | 100 | 100 | ||||||||||||||||
| KeepCur (%) | 3 | 60 | 6 | ||||||||||||||||
| CurDecay | 3 | 3 | 3 | ||||||||||||||||
| StartDegree | 1 | 1 | 1 | ||||||||||||||||
| Spd60 | |||||||||||||||||||
| Start (kg) | 10 | 6 | 6 | ||||||||||||||||
| Full (kg) | 35 | 25 | 35 | ||||||||||||||||
| Return (kg) | 5 | 0 | 5 | ||||||||||||||||
| MinCur (%) | 15 | 80 | 10 | ||||||||||||||||
| MaxCur (%) | 100 | 100 | 100 | ||||||||||||||||
| KeepCur (%) | 2 | 80 | 5 | ||||||||||||||||
| CurDecay | 2 | 2 | 3 | ||||||||||||||||
| StartDegree | 1 | 1 | 1 | ||||||||||||||||
| Spd80 | |||||||||||||||||||
| Start (kg) | 8 | 0 | 5 | ||||||||||||||||
| Full (kg) | 30 | 20 | 30 | ||||||||||||||||
| Return (kg) | 4 | 0 | 4 | ||||||||||||||||
| MinCur (%) | 10 | 100 | 10 | ||||||||||||||||
| MaxCur (%) | 100 | 100 | 100 | ||||||||||||||||
| KeepCur (%) | 2 | 100 | 4 | ||||||||||||||||
| CurDecay | 2 | 2 | 3 | ||||||||||||||||
| StartDegree | 1 | 1 | 1 | ||||||||||||||||
| Spd100 | |||||||||||||||||||
| Start (kg) | 6 | 0 | 4 | ||||||||||||||||
| Full (kg) | 25 | 10 | 25 | ||||||||||||||||
| Return (kg) | 4 | 0 | 3 | ||||||||||||||||
| MinCur (%) | 10 | 100 | 10 | ||||||||||||||||
| MaxCur (%) | 100 | 100 | 100 | ||||||||||||||||
| KeepCur (%) | 2 | 100 | 3 | ||||||||||||||||
| CurDecay | 2 | 2 | 3 | ||||||||||||||||
| StartDegree | 1 | 1 | 1 | .................................................. |
eBikeaholic
New Member
Oh dang hah I somehow missed about 10 posts before doing that! Well now someone better find those Biktrix settings lol
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