Two E-Creo issues: Range Extender depletion/Firmware Update

[kahn]

Two questions:

Bicycle Specialized Turbo Creo SL Comp E5

In settings there are two ways to use the main and range extender battery. You can either set the bike to equally deplete both batteries in parallel or first deplete the Range Extender battery. I went into settings and set things so that the Range Extender depletes and then main battery. But with that enabled, yesterday when the Extender got down to about 10%, the motor/whatever suddenly went into power saving mode and climbing the hill became really labored and changing the power levels did nothing. I would expect that if it depletes or approaches depletion, the main battery would kick in. That would enable one to use a second range extender battery to extend riding distance even more. But if the bike steps down the power when only the range extender is getting low that would defeat the purpose of a second battery. I had to stop and unplug the Range Extender and then the bike (motor) became responsive again.

The second question is whether there any way to do the firmware update myself. While the bike shop apparently did upgrade the firmware, after the "upgrade" Mission Control noted I needed a dealer to install the upgrade. And the UPGRADE option no longer displayed the current and next version. That chart was empty. So the shop said to bring it back in and they would do it over. But just ran into the problem of bike shop trying to upgrade and their laptop went down. They suggested that I leave and come back in half an hour. But upon return I was informed the Specialized server went down and it is a long weekend. Does a user really have to be dependent on the bike shop versus just doing it at my leisure. It is probably not a huge deal but it would be nice to just be able to do it especially since the lbs is swamped these days.

Thanks for any insight.

 

[Rincon]

The second question is whether there any way to do the firmware update myself.

No. There isn’t.

 

[taylorpetie]

It’s disappointing that users can’t do firmware upgrade. Seems almost every device (including electric cars) allow for user downloadable firmware upgrades. Yet, specialized feels they are ”special” to not allow it on the CREO. I’ve seen the shop perform the firmware upgrades....it’s not rocket science Specialized. Hey Specialized get with the IOT trend will you? Or is your firmware that unstable?

 

[kahn]

It’s disappointing that users can’t do firmware upgrade. Seems almost every device (including electric cars) allow for user downloadable firmware upgrades. Yet, specialized feels they are ”special” to not allow it on the CREO. I’ve seen the shop perform the firmware upgrades....it’s not rocket science Specialized. Hey Specialized get with the IOT trend will you? Or is your firmware that unstable?

Maybe they think we are all Apple users and can't handle complex stuff. I've upgraded and moved Windows and my entire C Drive from one smaller harddrive to a larger one. Multiple times. I updated Win7 to Win10. I've handled hacked and fixed Blackberry updates over the years. I've even, heaven forbid, raised and lowered my stem/handlebars and dealt with Future Shock. Although, frankly, I don't tune derailleurs or true wheels. I can probably handle it. Do you have any idea if there's a list of firmware versions for the four modules: Main battery, extended battery, motor and display. While the UPDATE option now has all of those fields blank, I can see some versions for some of those separate items.

I will traipse back to my bike shop for the fourth time next week and hope for the best.

 

[StmbtDave]

I took my Creo in for an update on the motor and the display. The next time I took it out for a ride the display didn't work. Turns out they updated the display but then neglected to pair it to the bike. I paired it myself but how could they give it back to the customer like that? They obviously didn't take it out for a test ride as it was immediately obvious that the display wasn't talking to the bike.

 

[JeffC57]

Two questions:

Bicycle Specialized Turbo Creo SL Comp E5

In settings there are two ways to use the main and range extender battery. You can either set the bike to equally deplete both batteries in parallel or first deplete the Range Extender battery. I went into settings and set things so that the Range Extender depletes and then main battery. But with that enabled, yesterday when the Extender got down to about 10%, the motor/whatever suddenly went into power saving mode and climbing the hill became really labored and changing the power levels did nothing. I would expect that if it depletes or approaches depletion, the main battery would kick in. That would enable one to use a second range extender battery to extend riding distance even more. But if the bike steps down the power when only the range extender is getting low that would defeat the purpose of a second battery. I had to stop and unplug the Range Extender and then the bike (motor) became responsive again.

The second question is whether there any way to do the firmware update myself. While the bike shop apparently did upgrade the firmware, after the "upgrade" Mission Control noted I needed a dealer to install the upgrade. And the UPGRADE option no longer displayed the current and next version. That chart was empty. So the shop said to bring it back in and they would do it over. But just ran into the problem of bike shop trying to upgrade and their laptop went down. They suggested that I leave and come back in half an hour. But upon return I was informed the Specialized server went down and it is a long weekend. Does a user really have to be dependent on the bike shop versus just doing it at my leisure. It is probably not a huge deal but it would be nice to just be able to do it especially since the lbs is swamped these days.

Thanks for any insight.

The instructions fo the range extender battery (available on the Specialized website) state that if Mission Control is set to RE first, the motor will lose power when the RE battery gets low. Apparently this is part of the battery management system and is intended to keep from damaging the RE battery.

Also AFAIK, firmware updates must be done at the dealer. That said, IMO, get the updates at your convenience as I think the updates are more evolutionary than revolutionary. Both my Creo and Vado SL are due for a firmware update. The LBS is less than a mile away and I’m not losing any sleep over my failure to get around to it yet. I also lost comms one time to my Vado SL TCD after a firmware update. The LBS fixed it by resetting/repairing the TCD. I am kind of glad it happened because I now know how to do that myself.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

@kahn: If you complain on Specialized requiring you to visit your LBS for firmware update then go and buy yourself a Giant e-bike. You'll then understand why OTA firmware updates can make you truly suffer... If it ain't broke, don't fix it. No need to.

Specialized OTA firmware update works for Turbo Levo and Kenevo. Specialized are slow with other models and let them be. Why ask for the trouble.

 

[kahn]

@kahn: If you complain on Specialized requiring you to visit your LBS for firmware update then go and buy yourself a Giant e-bike. You'll then understand why OTA firmware updates can make you truly suffer... If it ain't broke, don't fix it. No need to.

Specialized OTA firmware update works for Turbo Levo and Kenevo. Specialized are slow with other models and let them be. Why ask for the trouble.

I guess the grass only seems to be greener. Still, they've had three shots to get it upgraded.

 

[kahn]

The instructions fo the range extender battery (available on the Specialized website) state that if Mission Control is set to RE first, the motor will lose power when the RE battery gets low. Apparently this is part of the battery management system and is intended to keep from damaging the RE battery.

Also AFAIK, firmware updates must be done at the dealer. That said, IMO, get the updates at your convenience as I think the updates are more evolutionary than revolutionary. Both my Creo and Vado SL are due for a firmware update. The LBS is less than a mile away and I’m not losing any sleep over my failure to get around to it yet. I also lost comms one time to my Vado SL TCD after a firmware update. The LBS fixed it by resetting/repairing the TCD. I am kind of glad it happened because I now know how to do that myself.

I can understand protecting the battery from severe drain but I'd expect the system to know there's still the main battery and switch over to that. I will guess Mission Control/Battery Management 2.0 will do that.

 

[JeffC57]

I can understand protecting the battery from severe drain but I'd expect the system to know there's still the main battery and switch over to that. I will guess Mission Control/Battery Management 2.0 will do that.

Well, maybe....In the meantime all you can do is shut down, disconnect the RE cable and restart. After restart, you'll be running on the fully charged main battery.

 

[wmason]

Well, maybe....In the meantime all you can do is shut down, disconnect the RE cable and restart. After restart, you'll be running on the fully charged main battery.

I think the information Specialized covers the issues in question. The attached file is the specific Range Extender explanation as to their recommendation for use: https://specialized.picturepark.com/Go/vR2G3TWg/V/59324/1

 

[Rincon]

If you complain on Specialized requiring you to visit your LBS for firmware update then go and buy yourself a Giant e-bike. You'll then understand why OTA firmware updates can make you truly suffer...

I’ve had five years of good experiences with Stromer OTA firmware updates. I have no doubt about your experience with Giant, but bad experiences are not defined by the method of delivery. I get reliable and hassle free OTA updates for my iPhone, Mac, Garmin, SRAM, and Windows devices. (The OTA update on my BBQ was not hassle free though.)

Specialized is looking at OTA for the Creo. They’re aware of the need.

Without OTA, dealers and customers alike are not well situated for the increasing number of e-bike firmware updates that will be pushed out on a regular basis.

You do have a point about “If it ain’t broke…” I won’t make the trip to the dealer to update firmware without a compelling reason.

 

[kahn]

Is there a listing somewhere of what are the latest versions of the firmware for the various components like the motor, battery and display (and maybe the range extender battery)?

 

[Rincon]

Is there a listing somewhere of what are the latest versions of the firmware for the various components like the motor, battery and display (and maybe the range extender battery)?

If you have a Specialized e-bike with Mission Control, go into the app. It will tell you.

Diagnose>Device Updates

 

[kahn]

If you have a Specialized e-bike with Mission Control, go into the app. It will tell you.

Diagnose>Device Updates

That's part of my problem with the update. That screen is more or less blank. No data in any of the slots. So we can't tell if the update worked or failed. Or what version I have and what is current. But one of the prior screens for each individual component does show a value.

 

[Rincon]

So we can't tell if the update worked or failed.

Something failed. I haven’t done the latest update, but I have data there. Maybe you need to update Mission Control? No idea what’s up with that.

 

[kahn]

I brought the bike in for its 90 day tuneup and they supposedly did the firmware. When I got home I noticed Mission Control said there was a firmware update - ops! I went to that screen and saw those results. Went to the shop next morning (covid restrictions) and they said they would re-run. Their laptop died or ran out of juice, could I come back in half and hour. Do so, but Specialized Server was down. That is where it is. I have to hit the shop for the 4th time and give it another go. Apparently, the Range Extender battery also has an update. I feel like I'm dealing with Win10 and MS!!! Just let me do it myself.

Mission Control is up-to-date.

 

[JeffC57]

That's part of my problem with the update. That screen is more or less blank. No data in any of the slots. So we can't tell if the update worked or failed. Or what version I have and what is current. But one of the prior screens for each individual component does show a value.View attachment 89250

I had some free time today so I took my Vado SL in for a firmware update. On the first attempt, my MC screen looked like this too. I rode back up to the shop and they hooked it back up to the computer. Even though the computer said the firmware was up to date the tech ran the updates again. That worked and everything is fine now. The data fields on this page are filled in showing current firmware for everything....Lesson learned-when I take the Creo in for it's updates; check MC before I leave the shop. Something must be squirrelly with the firmware push.

 

[Rincon]

Lesson learned-when I take the Creo in for it's updates; check MC before I leave the shop.

Thanks for posting that.

 

[kahn]

I had some free time today so I took my Vado SL in for a firmware update. On the first attempt, my MC screen looked like this too. I rode back up to the shop and they hooked it back up to the computer. Even though the computer said the firmware was up to date the tech ran the updates again. That worked and everything is fine now. The data fields on this page are filled in showing current firmware for everything....Lesson learned-when I take the Creo in for it's updates; check MC before I leave the shop. Something must be squirrelly with the firmware push.

I really don't know much about Specialized other e-bike offerings. So I don't know if the Vado firmware differs from the Creo firmware. If there's nothing private (serial number or bt pairing code) could you post a screen shot of that screen. I can see what might be firmware for the separate components so maybe that will give me a clue if my firmware is up to date but the overall screen is fubar.

I just will have to find time to visit the shop for the fourth time in a week. They limit entry at this time.

Thanks for posting back.