Turbo Vado 5.0 IGH - The Nightmare Continues

[Chibbie]

I think your expectations should come back to reality a little bit. Granted the warranty process in the cycling industry is a bit ass backwards, but the manufacture covering parts only is unfortunately the norm. Whether the shop wants to charge you for their time is their own business decision with zero support from the brand (most of the time). Bikes purchased from our shop, typically we'll eat the labor charge to show mutual support for the client. Bosch bikes brought to us for warranty cases, happy to take care of them but we need to be paid for our time. This is clearly explained and we'll do everything we can to have the manufacture (bike brand or Bosch) pay us for our time, but in the end we have costs that need covered, either by the client or manufacture.

That's all to say if your shop didn't coach you very well then they set themselves up for failure and piss you off (which it sounds like what happened).

The mileage thing is odd, potentially a re-manufactured drive unit, but typically I've only seen those in good-will warranty cases.

Additionally, bad mouthing a shop that sounds like they're trying to help, on a forum, is a GREAT way to not be invited back to said shop. There's A LOT of different parts in the cycling industry and very little formal training. That's to say it's tough to become an "expert" short of dedicating yourself to the profession through passion. Someone might know how to tune a chain and derailleur with their eyes closed but when you introduce a internally geared hub that hasn't been in the North American market very much, patience goes a long way (both customer and shop). Bike brands will come out with all sorts of "cool new stuff" and shaft the dealer with little to no training. Not surprised they were caught out since Specialized has NEVER used the Enviolo, let alone the Automatiq version. A Tern or R&M dealer would know about the drivetrain, but they can't do anything for the drive unit, bummer. Same with our shop, I've had a Specialized dealership in the past, have all the special tools and diag equipment, but it's all worthless, even on my own Vado! I've tried to reach out even to make a service account, no dice. It's too bad as a number of our clients have Spec bikes and we really can't do anything for them. And the old Spec dealer in town dropped them due to bad business practices (in their eyes), now all of those folks have to drive 1+hr for any diag work, assuming that shop will service bikes they didn't sell.

Food for thought.

Interesting perspective. Just two contrary thoughts:

1. Speaking for myself, as a customer, I wouldn’t feel that I need to keep my mouth shut lest I not be “invited” back to a bike shop. It’s a business, not a dinner party; and while the customer isn’t always right, it’s not like they’re doing the OP a personal favor by fixing his bike. I personally go out of my way to be patient and kind to folks working in a service business and to avoid any sense of entitlement on my part; but at the end of the day, it’s still a business transaction where my patronage is supporting their business (whether I pay or the manufacturer pays). So, I think it’s a bit much to act as if you need to be “invited.” I suppose a business can have that attitude if they have a monopoly in their area or if they provide some highly specialized service (no pun intended) where demand is high and supply is low. But in a market where there are competitors who can provide the same kind of service, that kind of attitude is a recipe for going out of business.

2. I don’t know what the industry practice is, but I do know that the dealers for both of my e-bikes, which are two different brands/companies, will pay for both parts and labor at an LBS during the warranty period (just as the dealer for my car pays for both parts and labor under warranty). Good to know that many do not, though; I’ll check that thoroughly beforehand if I ever buy another bike. (It never even occurred to me that they wouldn’t, since labor + parts is standard warranty practice in every other context I’m familiar with: cars, consumer electronics, etc.)

Just to be clear: on my read of the OP’s situation, the fault seems to lie at least as much, and perhaps mostly, with Specialized itself rather than the LBS. (Although I will say that many of the issues the OP describes fall squarely on the LBS, and are ones that don’t seem to require highly technical expertise specific to any new ebike technology, like tightening bolts and the belt properly; that’s just lazy or straight-up incompetent. I was raised to take pride in what you do, whether what you do is cleaning toilets or neurosurgery. But I suppose, given that I’m in my 50s, that’s just old guy talk. )

 

[JJ Lad]

I think your expectations should come back to reality a little bit. Granted the warranty process in the cycling industry is a bit ass backwards, but the manufacture covering parts only is unfortunately the norm. Whether the shop wants to charge you for their time is their own business decision with zero support from the brand (most of the time). Bikes purchased from our shop, typically we'll eat the labor charge to show mutual support for the client. Bosch bikes brought to us for warranty cases, happy to take care of them but we need to be paid for our time. This is clearly explained and we'll do everything we can to have the manufacture (bike brand or Bosch) pay us for our time, but in the end we have costs that need covered, either by the client or manufacture.

That's all to say if your shop didn't coach you very well then they set themselves up for failure and piss you off (which it sounds like what happened).

The mileage thing is odd, potentially a re-manufactured drive unit, but typically I've only seen those in good-will warranty cases.

Additionally, bad mouthing a shop that sounds like they're trying to help, on a forum, is a GREAT way to not be invited back to said shop. There's A LOT of different parts in the cycling industry and very little formal training. That's to say it's tough to become an "expert" short of dedicating yourself to the profession through passion. Someone might know how to tune a chain and derailleur with their eyes closed but when you introduce a internally geared hub that hasn't been in the North American market very much, patience goes a long way (both customer and shop). Bike brands will come out with all sorts of "cool new stuff" and shaft the dealer with little to no training. Not surprised they were caught out since Specialized has NEVER used the Enviolo, let alone the Automatiq version. A Tern or R&M dealer would know about the drivetrain, but they can't do anything for the drive unit, bummer. Same with our shop, I've had a Specialized dealership in the past, have all the special tools and diag equipment, but it's all worthless, even on my own Vado! I've tried to reach out even to make a service account, no dice. It's too bad as a number of our clients have Spec bikes and we really can't do anything for them. And the old Spec dealer in town dropped them due to bad business practices (in their eyes), now all of those folks have to drive 1+hr for any diag work, assuming that shop will service bikes they didn't sell.

Food for thought.

Thanks for your contribution to this thread, but this goes well beyond expectations. I have a binding contract with Specialized. And it includes 2-years warranty on the drivetrain.....no limitations.

If SPL's authorized dealers need to get paid for their warranty time, they can go cap in hand to head-office....not my problem!

This local SPL dealer has no business representing a brand they're ill equipped to service. Perhaps SPL is partly to blame for lack of training, but again not my problem.

These high-end ebikes are a substantial investment, and I expect the same level of service that I enjoy with my BMW.

In respect to everything I've described about this dealer.. it's all factual, accurate and documented. I've been to court numerous times and I know the importance of documenting everything.

No one should have to settle for mediocrity..... especially when dropping $-thousands on a bike.

 

[Brendon@OEB]

FWIW I never said anyone needs to act as if they're to be "invited" but merely saying that it's a two way street, sounds like you're saying something similar.

Couldn't agree more on the backwardness of the industry, pretty embarrassing really.

It's absolutely your problem to pay for labor, read your warranty handbook. What BMW does means jack s*it compared to what Specialized does. Again, poor management of expectations.

 

[dynamic]

I think your expectations should come back to reality a little bit.

Gonna chime in and say I disagree.

It's absolutely your problem to pay for labor, read your warranty handbook.

As far as I can tell, specialized explicitly says labor is covered if parts replacement is due to warranty. However, that may be due to regional laws.

I can say for sure that everything done on my bike for the weeks it was in the shop cost me $18 for the belt guard I broke during a de-belting incident. And nothing else. Same with my son’s riprock ( hydraulic brakes failed on day 1 ).

Evelo explicitly states that labor is covered for the first 30 days. After that it is parts only (but for 4 years).

All, I am saying is his experience seems like it does not meet the standard specialized agreed to when selling the bike. And it certainly doesn’t meet the experience many of us have with specialized.

That said, I can not find the official policy mentioning labor either way. However, it is not mentioned in what is “not covered”.

 

[GuruUno]

Well, I'll "chime in".
Specialized informed me during the Como defective fork saga that: "Each individual supplier of specific parts that are procured by Specialized to 'build' a bike that is sold to a consumer is covered by THAT manufacturer of THAT part, NOT Specialized".
So, the fork was SRAM, not Specialized.
The brakes, Shimano or whoever the supplier is that vintage of bike.
Rims, tires, etc., etc.
Basically, they will cover the frame for lifetime but all "non-Specialized" components are covered by the supplier warranty.
That is what I was told. (and experienced an almost 6 month with no replacement fork until they were faced with offsetting the entire purchase of the Como [SRAM], so faced with that my local LBS took the fork from the IGH bike I had returned to the LBS that was sitting on the floor with an unknown future).

 

[JJ Lad]

OK, now I'm fuming....just received this response from the dealer (Suitably redacted to protect privacy):

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Well, I'll "chime in".
Specialized informed me during the Como defective fork saga that: "Each individual supplier of specific parts that are procured by Specialized to 'build' a bike that is sold to a consumer is covered by THAT manufacturer of THAT part, NOT Specialized".
So, the fork was SRAM, not Specialized.
The brakes, Shimano or whoever the supplier is that vintage of bike.
Rims, tires, etc., etc.
Basically, they will cover the frame for lifetime but all "non-Specialized" components are covered by the supplier warranty.
That is what I was told. (and experienced an almost 6 month with no replacement fork until they were faced with offsetting the entire purchase of the Como [SRAM], so faced with that my local LBS took the fork from the IGH bike I had returned to the LBS that was sitting on the floor with an unknown future).

When my Vado 5.0 (45 km/h) frame broke at the motor mount 3 years after the purchase, Specialized owned store:

• Got the authorization & budget from the distributor to honour the "lifetime frame warranty"
• Found a Vado 6.0 frame in the matching colour
• Added a suspension fork because Vado 6.0 has a suspension fork while MY2017 Vado 5.0 doesn't
• Added a new front wheel because Vado 6.0 has a different front wheel hub
• Bought Kinekt 2.1 420 mm suspension fork to replace my 350 mm one (to match the new geometry)
• Rebuilt the e-bike from the scratch and returned the old frame to me (intentionally destroyed) so I could officially deregister the old e-bike.

The cost I paid for the above was ZERO. Parts and labour.

Before that (2020), Specialized were replacing the obsolete and faulty BLOKS system with the new TCD-w electronics. A Specialized LBS not owned by the brand:

• Dismantled the e-bike to install the TCD-W (including new electrical cable routing)
• Installed the Supernova M99 Pro headlight (anyone interested can check the retail price online)
• Installed the Supernova tail-light with a new number plate holder, number plate illumination, and the STOP indicator
• Installed a new rear rack
• Installed a new remote
• Installed a separate horn button.

I paid ZERO on the above, parts and labour, the warranty service.

The LBS described by the OP should lose their dealership if the facts described are true.

 

[Saratoga Dave]

That business with the motor is disgraceful. Who the hell are they kidding, ‘I guess we didn’t mention that we stuck a used motor with 500 extra kilometers into your brand new bike. Have a nice day.’

 

[dynamic]

I am relatively confident specialized direct will replace it again especially if you go to another dealer.

 

[MC2]

Found this on the Specialized corporate website.

It's sure looking like the dealer installed a used replacement motor on my new bike.

View attachment 151321

So this is interesting…
I recently bought my 5.0 and had to have the TCD unit replaced (as the plastic back of it came grinded and would not stay put on the holder.

When I collected my bike, it had a count of 130km. (I only had the bike for a week and ridden it 3 times roughly 8 miles each)

I didn’t pay much attention as I thought maybe it’s an anomaly on the head unit and 130km is not a lot.

But now I’m thinking, did they replace my old motor in replacing the head unit?

For what it’s worth bike is working fine… but still disturbing if it’s true…

 

[JJ Lad]

After reaching out to Specialized Head-Office, I'm extremely pleased to report that they're prepared to do whatever it takes to make me happy.

Regretfully, they don't have a replacement bike, so they agreed to refund the total purchase price.

So happy to finally put this chapter behind me.

 

[dynamic]

After reaching out to Specialized Head-Office, I'm extremely pleased to report that they're prepared to do whatever it takes to make me happy.

Regretfully, they don't have a replacement bike, so they agreed to refund the total purchase price.

So happy to finally put this chapter behind me.

And this, right here, is why I am still buying specialized. (Just to be clear, there is a lot of stuff I have been very vocal about not liking with specialized experience, but this trumps it all).

 

[BEC111]

After reaching out to Specialized Head-Office, I'm extremely pleased to report that they're prepared to do whatever it takes to make me happy.

Regretfully, they don't have a replacement bike, so they agreed to refund the total purchase price.

So happy to finally put this chapter behind me.

I’m glad the resolution to your problem is satisfactory. Specialized ultimately did the right thing. Sadly, you still don’t have a bike.

I suspect these issues will continue due to the complexities of the bicycle business. Perhaps, as Specialized‘s DTC model matures things will get better. Most LBS are small businesses with significant resource restraints and anxious owners, so my cynicism tempers my hopefulness.

 

[Onimaru]

After reaching out to Specialized Head-Office, I'm extremely pleased to report that they're prepared to do whatever it takes to make me happy.

Regretfully, they don't have a replacement bike, so they agreed to refund the total purchase price.

So happy to finally put this chapter behind me.

Glad they took care of you. They replaced mine in October when they couldn’t fix it. Finally get to ride it this week.

 

[Chibbie]

Glad to hear this! Will be interested to hear whether you decide to stick with Specialized or get a different bike.

 

[JJ Lad]

Today's the day! Returned the TV5.0 to the shop this morning. Had to endure one final indignity when the shop was unable to refund my purchase as the amount exceeded their daily refund limit.

Took them about an hour on the phone with Visa, then update their terminal software....but finally they were able to process the refund.

Time for a nice cold beer!!!

 

[BEC111]

Today's the day! Returned the TV5.0 to the shop this morning. Had to endure one final indignity when the shop was unable to refund my purchase as the amount exceeded their daily refund limit.

Took them about an hour on the phone with Visa, then update their terminal software....but finally they were able to process the refund.

Time for a nice cold beer!!!

Have one for me!

 

[dynamic]

Awesome! What are you looking at to replace it?

 

[JJ Lad]

Awesome! What are you looking at to replace it?

Looking for another gravel bike. Likely some off-brand parts-bin bike with a rear wheel motor and generic components that I can tinker with and not be beholden to a specific brand for support.

 

[PSm]

Looking for another gravel bike. Likely some off-brand parts-bin bike with a rear wheel motor and generic components that I can tinker with and not be beholden to a specific brand for support.

Crazy idea for you, but for a very low price of admission and low risk, try a Ride1UP Roadster Gravel Edition. At $1245 for a gates belt driven single speed and under 35 lbs, it may be at least worth a try.

I like buying stuff at a value price, but that have great user reviews and many good things going for it. I have the non-gravel version, since I got mine before that model came out. I can’t say enough good things about my experience with my Roadster over the past 7000 miles, and the good customer service experience I and others have had (though like all bikes, a small number of people have had negative experiences) with Ride1UP support.

At least for me, the experience of a lightweight e-bike with a single speed belt drive has been a game changer. So much more fun to ride, and accelerate, and much less to go wrong or maintain