Turbo Vado 3.0 IGH - Poor Range.

[RGOLD]

I had range anxiety today. The battery lasted only about 32 miles... (Yes, it was charged to 100%).

Riding conditions:
My weight: 160lb
Weather: Sunny, 50F light wind.
Elevation gain: 2506 ft.
Average Speed: 12.6 MPH
Motor Assist: average 50%

This is disappointing. My other mid motor Walmart bike (Hyper) has 367WH battery (see attached picture) can get around 35 miles of range under same conditions! with Specialized 530WH I would expect at least 40 miles of range.

Is the battery bad? or is it the IGH 85% efficiency?

Thinking about returning the bike since this is not even close to the published spec of 56 miles. Yes I know, it is under ideal condition but still, only 32 miles in real life?

I checked the Specialized range calculator and I get 57 miles for 4554 ft elevation gain.

https://www.specialized.com/us/en/app/turbo-calculator#productId:199869|riderHeight:70|riderWeight:160|velocity:12|mode:Sport|stops:Low|terrain:Hills|rangeExtender:No|useImperial:true

 

[RTeremi]

using Garmin or Strava to look into the data of the ride? Curious to see.

 

[RGOLD]

using Garmin or Strava to look into the data of the ride? Curious to see.

I used the the Apple watch workout application (attached is a screen shot). For some reason it stopped recording the last segment.

 

[RTeremi]

Hard to say much from this, no cadence, or motor input. take it back to the shop and see what they say…. Range has sooo many factors; I ride much faster 22-23mph average, and I may (depending on how much help I’m asking the bike) only get 32miles on a battery. 52miles is the best I’ve ever had using it rather sparingly…but again; lots of factors to consider.

 

[RGOLD]

Hard to say much from this, no cadence, or motor input. take it back to the shop and see what they say…. Range has sooo many factors; I ride much faster 22-23mph average, and I may (depending on how much help I’m asking the bike) only get 32miles on a battery. 52miles is the best I’ve ever had using it rather sparingly…but again; lots of factors to consider.

My cadence was most of the time between 65-80. What size of battery do you have?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

had range anxiety today. The battery lasted only about 32 miles... (Yes, it was charged to 100%).

Riding conditions:
My weight: 160lb
Weather: Sunny, 50F light wind.
Elevation gain: 2506 ft.
Average Speed: 12.6 MPH
Motor Assist: average 50%

This is disappointing. My other mid motor Walmart bike (Hyper) has 367WH battery (see attached picture) can get around 35 miles of range under same conditions! with Specialized 530WH I would expect at least 40 miles of range.

Is the battery bad? or is it the IGH 85% efficiency?

The figures you published look reasonable.

• Ride time 2.5 h. Effective battery charge 503.5 Wh (95% of the nominal battery capacity). Average assist around 200 W (electrical). 50% of the max motor power of 430 W is 215 W, so it looks probable
• Significant elevation gain. It is one of the factors the most affecting the range
• Low ambient temperature that indeed adversely affects the range!
• The Enviolo IGH is in fact at 85% efficiency

I had a similar experience and feelings when I took my new (then) Giant Trance E+ with a 500 Wh battery for a hilly ride (a similar distance and elevation gain as yours). My early decision was to invest in a 625 Wh Giant battery, which was expensive but I was out of options (that let me rotate the batteries for longevity).

The 50% assistance is a lot for a full power e-bike especially ridden at your conditions. (I never trust the online range calculators as they assume it is a strong rider using the ECO assistance). Hopefully, you will be able to discover the joys of riding your e-bike at somewhat lower assistance (the range significantly grows for 40% or 35% assistance). You will also see how much the range increases above 60F! And yes, "the cadence is the King (or Queen)"

Take a benefit of Mastermind: use Microtune and observe the Estimated Range as well as the Range Trend on the Mastermind data page related to power/battery. You may also try setting the Smart Control in the Specialized App to discover actual possible assistance for the given range and elevation gain (note: Smart Control requires riding for a mile or two before the system can understand how to assist you the best).

 

[RTeremi]

I have 2 batteries; the original 504wh and the larger 604wh (I have an older model than you). My average cadence is 82-85 with max being somewhere around 120. But I typically ride like I stole the bike. luckily we have local races and tours where I can focus my energy. I have prob. 4kmiles on the smaller battery and 2kmiles on the larger battery. I’ve not noticed much of a degradation on the range for either battery.

To Stephan’s point, climbs eat these batteries very fast if you use much assist.

 

[Ben J]

Did you ride until the battery was dead (or 5% or wherever it stops)? Or did you ride and add the "remaining range" to your actual trip distance?

The computer seems to take several rides when the bike is new to learn the battery and report range properly. Mine way under reported range for the first 100 miles or so. I really wanted to go on a ride to take the battery all the way down to help it learn, but the battery always outlasts me by quite a bit. I usually use 50-60% on my Tero X 6 to go 30-40 miles.

 

[AvalancheRun]

2500 ft over 30 miles is quite a lot of elevation gain. I wonder if that's just normal, as Stefan said?

I found that as my legs got stronger I wanted less assistance, thus increasing my range. It went from ~45 miles on a 625 wh battery to 60 miles, to 75 miles with relative ease.

 

[RGOLD]

Did you ride until the battery was dead (or 5% or wherever it stops)? Or did you ride and add the "remaining range" to your actual trip distance?

The computer seems to take several rides when the bike is new to learn the battery and report range properly. Mine way under reported range for the first 100 miles or so. I really wanted to go on a ride to take the battery all the way down to help it learn, but the battery always outlasts me by quite a bit. I usually use 50-60% on my Tero X 6 to go 30-40 miles.

I rode until the battery was dead. This was unintended since I assumed I can do at least 40 miles.

 

[RTeremi]

2500 ft over 30 miles is quite a lot of elevation gain. I wonder if that's just normal, as Stefan said?

I found that as my legs got stronger I wanted less assistance, thus increasing my range. It went from ~45 miles on a 625 wh battery to 60 miles, to 75 miles with relative ease.

Totally agree with this

 

[Brendon@OEB]

Totally agree with this

Same. Range is quite the fickle one, IGH and belt drive definitely have a negative effect on range but offer quite a bit of convenience for users.

Comparing two completely different e-bikes on range is a waste of time.

 

[RGOLD]

Same. Range is quite the fickle one, IGH and belt drive definitely have a negative effect on range but offer quite a bit of convenience for users.

Comparing two completely different e-bikes on range is a waste of time.

I understand that IGH has 85% efficiency however my issue is that Specialized published inflated range numbers. For the context, the manufacture of my other ebike publish a spec of only 20 miles with the 376WH battery.
I tested this today on the same route I did yesterday and I was able to get about 25 miles as you may see in the attached files.

 

[Brendon@OEB]

I understand that IGH has 85% efficiency however my issue is that Specialized published inflated range numbers. For the context, the manufacture of my other ebike publish a spec of only 20 miles with the 376WH battery.
I tested this today on the same route I did yesterday and I was able to get about 25 miles as you may see in the attached files.

Again, apples to oranges comparing two completely different pedal assist systems, conditions, etc.

They're not inflated numbers, they're under "ideal conditions" which can mean testing the bike on a treadmill to see just how much range the system can provide.

 

[RGOLD]

Again, apples to oranges comparing two completely different pedal assist systems, conditions, etc.

They're not inflated numbers, they're under "ideal conditions" which can mean testing the bike on a treadmill to see just how much range the system can provide.

I posted, at the beginning of this thread, that I used Specialized range calculator for real world conditions and I got 57 miles so the range calculator is inflating the numbers.

 

[Brendon@OEB]

60% pedal assist and an average speed of 12mph is making that drive unit do some heavy lifting. What's your cadence?

Also it's been in the high 40f temps in your neck of the woods, that's pretty cold. I imagine appropriate clothing too, which isn't aerodynamic at all, and at an upright riding position. Even light wind has a pretty profound effect on range.

 

[Bavi]

^ Excellent insights there, things I hadn't really taken into account for myself, thank you!

 

[RGOLD]

^ Excellent insights there, things I hadn't really taken into account for myself, thank you!

If you want real world ebike range numbers go here:

Electric Bike (Ebike) Range Calculator (2024 Updated)

Are you looking at ebikes and trying to figure out how far you can go on a single charge? The RGE Electric Bike (Ebike) Range Calculator takes the guessing out of range estimation.

reallygoodebikes.com

It gave me about 30 miles of range after inputting my riding data. I wish I knew this web site before. Specialized range calculator web gave me 57 miles....

 

[Bavi]

Thanks for the link That calculator shows a range of about 56 miles when set to my ride profile (as near as I can get it) but I've got a Como 5.0 IGH which has a larger battery capacity than your Vado 3.0 IGH and I ride slower than you... In reality I'd estimate that I get nearer to 70-75 miles per charge but I also set the ECO assist level set to 25/25 as soon as I got the bike. I've never ridden any distance in Sport or Turbo mode maybe 100 yards on the very first ride. I've now reduced the Eco assist to 20/20 but I try to ride unassisted as much as possible so I don't really get any worthwhile range data any more.

I've considered setting ECO even lower (say 15/15) but I think @Stefan Mikes has previously posted that there is a limit to the benefits in reducing the assistance too much, something to do with the motor efficiency at those settings. However, I've got no idea what the sensible lowest setting is for my bike, efficiency wise, maybe he can advise me?

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

If you want real world ebike range numbers go here:

Electric Bike (Ebike) Range Calculator (2024 Updated)

Are you looking at ebikes and trying to figure out how far you can go on a single charge? The RGE Electric Bike (Ebike) Range Calculator takes the guessing out of range estimation.

reallygoodebikes.com

It gave me about 30 miles of range after inputting my riding data. I wish I knew this web site before. Specialized range calculator web gave me 57 miles....

Thanks for this link. The calculator gives a very conservative estimate of 60-65 mi for the parameter set closest to my most common riding case:
o 960 Wh battery
o Bafang G020 500 W rear hub motor
o 10-speed chain drive
o Hybrid 2.3" tires
o Lowest assist (1/9)
o Some hills and stops
o Light breeze
o 10-15 mph average

My butt won't let me push the battery envelope, so hard to be sure, but after 2,000 mi on this bike in this setting, I think 80+ mi would be more realistic.

However, very illuminating to vary the parameters around my riding style and terrain and watch the impact on range. Seems like most of the battery-conserving measures I might realistically take would only buy a few extra miles.

Interesting that the calculator doesn't ask about riding position or clothing. These factor really do make a difference in the power lost to air resistance, often your greatest foe. And at constant effort at the pedals, any added power loss comes straight out of the battery.