Tubeless tires--please share experiences and ask questions here!

[ebikemom]

In our four-ebike family, since we got our bikes, we have had, let's see ....

• Son's bike: 1 flat
• Daughter's bike: 1 flat
• Husband's bike: 2 flats (one on his bike, one on a loaner)
• My bike: 0 flats (Lucky me! )

ALL of the flats have been REAR-wheel flats. Slime tubes. No patching possible.

So ... I'm thinking of various flat-avoidance strategies:
tire liners

• thick/heavy-duty tubes
• tire liners
• tubeless tires

My question here: I understand that all rims can't accommodate tubeless tires. Why? How can one tell if one's rims can take tubeless? I am especially interested in getting tubeless REAR tires.

Thanks for any advice!

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

In our four-ebike family, since we got our bikes, we have had, let's see ....

So ... I'm thinking of various flat-avoidance strategies:
tire liners

• thick/heavy-duty tubes
• tire liners
• tubeless tires

My question here: I understand that all rims can't accommodate tubeless tires. Why? How can one tell if one's rims can take tubeless? I am especially interested in getting tubeless REAR tires.

Thanks for any advice!

Start with tire liners and keeping the pressure 45psi for those Schwalbe Fat Franks.
flat occurrence will reduce by 90%. Tire liners help a great deal. Think of tubeless after experimenting with liners.
Liners are cheap ($10), you don't have to swap the wheels for tubeless seatup (the current pedego wheels are not tubeless compatible) or mess with any of the tubeless conversion stuff.

Although tubeless is superior, liners are effective for 90% of the cases.

 

[Chris Hammond]

I converted my Juiced CCS to a tubeless setup primarily for the flat avoidance and have been very happy. My tires and wheels were NOT "tubeless compatible", but the conversion worked well in spite of that. I will say the first wheel was a very frustrating process even after watching multiple how to videos. The second wheel went much better after learning from the first. Put well over 2000 miles on since the conversion. I have had one flat since the conversion that didn't self seal. I attributed this to insufficient sealant in the tire and sealant drying out quickly in the perpetual 100 degree heat.
That said, I agree with Ravi that liners are far cheaper and easier to install.
Either way you will likely improve your flat problem dramatically.

 

[Bicyclista]

I tried liners and they were not effective. Maybe 10% effective, but certainly not the 90% that @Ravi Kempaiah cites. Maybe it's the goatheads we have in Southern California. Then I went tubeless and my problems were solved! My rims and tires were "tubeless ready" so I did not have to wonder whether it would work, as you do.

I don't know why some rims and tires cannot be converted to tubeless, but I suspect that it has to do with how well the tire seats against the rim, as well as how well the rim can seal the air inside. Actually, @Ravi Kempaiah can probably answer that question since he works in a bike shop.

Every 4 to 6 months you have to refresh your tubeless tires with sealant because it dries out and becomes ineffective. I'd rather do that than repair punctures or walk miles home!

 

[ebikemom]

I also found a company that sells SOLID tires. I wonder if these will fit my bike ...
https://tannusamerica.com/collections/tannus-tires/products/tannus-razorblade?variant=35062395779

 

[Mr. Coffee]

I also found a company that sells SOLID tires. I wonder if these will fit my bike ...
https://tannusamerica.com/collections/tannus-tires/products/tannus-razorblade?variant=35062395779

You will regret it if you go that route, I think.

I'd second tire liners. Especially for on-road biking (or at least biking where you aren't dealing with thorny bushes) they usually work fine. Getting them properly installed if you haven't done it before can be a bit challenging.

On the extra-thick tubes, I found they adversely affected the handling and range of the bike so I can't recommend them.

One of the things I find off-putting about tubeless is that you still need to carry a spare tube (and probably a tire boot) in case you get a puncture that won't self-seal. The other is that if you need to do a field repair getting the tire off of the wheel in field conditions (e.g. on the shoulder of a muddy gravel road in hosing rain with numb fingers) can be pretty tough.

 

[indianajo]

I get ~ 2000 miles out of kenda off road tires without flats. I run ordinary tubes. I ride on road. The ones with the knobs work fine (tomac), but the shop has been selling me ones with diagonal blocks and a rib down the middle that work fine. I can't find that one in the kenda website. Whichever, the rubber blocks are about 1/8" thick. when the middle wears down to 1/16" I replace the tire on a nice day, at home. I carry 50-70 lb of supplies on the back, so I run maximum pressure, about 55 psi.
I don't patch tubes, I replace them. I carry two or three, as anything from ***** can have quality problems. I burned through 2 tubes in 15 minutes one time, due to an immediate leak, and had to push the bike 7 miles to my camp where I had some more. So I carry two now, minimum. Plus an air pump.
Notice loose spokes combined with a poor fitting spoke cover can cause quick flats. After spokes are tightened, they have to be filed off flat to not poke the tube. Also some new rims have a sharp edge around the stem hole. I usually file those out smooth first time I have the tire off the bike.
Note if the tube walks and sticks out the hole crooked, it can wear through at the rim. Deflate, shift to straight up, and reinflate.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

Does anyone here have any experience with the various products that claim to field-repair tubeless tire punctures that won't self-seal?

 

[rexel1]

Does anyone here have any experience with the various products that claim to field-repair tubeless tire punctures that won't self-seal?

Im from the UK and have used a similar product to the second one you’ve linked to.

On the tubeless tyres (WTB Road Plus) I have on my non electric bike, I’ve probably had about 10 punctures, the sealant did the job for all but two of them. The product you linked to easy fixed the other two, both of those punctures were heavy duty nails that went into the tyre. Fixed on the roadside in about 3 minutes. It took longer to get of off the bike and get the gear out of my rucksack than it did to fix the problem!

All it leaves is bit of the plug sticking out of the tyre. Highly recommended by me.

 

[rannyv]

I'm "old school" - carry a patch kit and tube and fix flats when the occur, but my last e-bike had vertical rear dropouts and an internally geared hub which mean removing it was a b**ch. Many flats can be repaired without removing the wheel, but for the rear wheel, I used the Schwalbe tire with the highest puncture resistance and a super thick tube.

If going the tube route and DIY, I suggest trying repairs at home first - a dry run. Figuring it out on the side of the road would not be fun.

As I've stated in many posts, I like a bike to feel as light and lively as possible. Heavy tires, tubes and tire liners run counter to this goal.

The tubeless idea is interesting. Do these tires weigh about the same as conventional tire / tube setup? Some tubed tires can run $80 (and up) a pop. Are tubeless even more than that? Is the selection of tubeless tires decent? Tires have a big impact on bike feel, so it's important to find the right for the characteristics you would like to achieve.

 

[ebikemom]

I have the same questions!

 

[rexel1]

Weight wise think tubeless tyre and sealant are about the same as a tyre and tube. For me the main advantage is the lower pressures you can run. Most road surfaces you can just float over.
My non ebike commute was an hour on a fast lightweight drop bar bike, knocked consistently about 5-8 minutes off that on a flat bar bike with tubeless tyres double the width of the drop bar bike...and all due to the lower pressures. I’ve not got tubeless on an ebike yet as it came with marathon tyres and slimed inner tubes. Once they wear out then I will be switching to tubeless.

 

[tcombest]

In our four-ebike family, since we got our bikes, we have had, let's see ....

• Son's bike: 1 flat
• Daughter's bike: 1 flat
• Husband's bike: 2 flats (one on his bike, one on a loaner)
• My bike: 0 flats (Lucky me! )

ALL of the flats have been REAR-wheel flats. Slime tubes. No patching possible.

So ... I'm thinking of various flat-avoidance strategies:
tire liners

• thick/heavy-duty tubes
• tire liners
• tubeless tires

My question here: I understand that all rims can't accommodate tubeless tires. Why? How can one tell if one's rims can take tubeless? I am especially interested in getting tubeless REAR tires.

Thanks for any advice!

I’m curious if you ever went tubeless? The big difference in most rims is that some are single wall and some are double wall. They do make some designated tubeless rims but they are rare, expensive, and not necessary. On single wall rims, you have to tape over the spoke nipples to go tubeless. On double wall rims, the spoke nipples are recessed, so you tape over the spoke hole. I really like the double wall rims best, which is what comes on Juiced bikes. The Radrover has single wall. If you go tubeless on single wall, there is no reason to leave the original rim strip on the wheel when you apply the tape. The rim strip was put there to keep the spoke nipples from puncturing the inner tube. Without an inner tube, that isn’t needed.

Many people say you must carry a spare inner tube when you go tubeless in case a hole won’t seal. I don’t. An inner tube on a fatbike weighs 550 grams. I carry a dynaplug kit and 8- 25gm CO2 cartridges.

If you are talking fatbike, going tubeless will knock 2-3 lbs off your wheels. Either way you will need 4-6 oz sealant. But inner tubes and Mr Tuffies weigh almost 3lbs total.

I went tubeless with 4oz of Stan’s sealant in my fat tire. The first day I picked up a 3” nail in the rear. I never lost a bit of air during a 25 mile ride. When I got home I saw the nail. I pulled it out and inserted a dynaplug. Been riding on it ever since and have lost no air.

 

[ebikemom]

Not yet! ? I appreciate hearing your experience!

 

[WilliamT]

I have a bike that I purchased (for fun) from a ride share company (Ofo) before they left DC. That bicycle is suppose to be maintenance free so it came with run flat tires. The tires feel like they are completely solid. Every crack in the road is felt. Any bumps greater than 1-2 inches will cause things in your basket to bounce out. The impact vibrates all the way up to your arms and the entire bike just hops. I would NOT recommend those tires.

 

[tcombest]

I have a bike that I purchased (for fun) from a ride share company (Ofo) before they left DC. That bicycle is suppose to be maintenance free so it came with run flat tires. The tires feel like they are completely solid. Every crack in the road is felt. Any bumps greater than 1-2 inches will cause things in your basket to bounce out. The impact vibrates all the way up to your arms and the entire bike just hops. I would NOT recommend those tires.

I don't think hardly anyone would want tires like the ones you describe. There may be some solid rubber tires out there, and there may be some "no flat" inserts. I assume that is what you have. But almost all serious mountain bikers and many fat tire bikers prefer "tubeless" to "tubed" tires. To go tubeless, you duct tape the spokeholes in your rims to prevent air from escaping, add a valve stem, and put on a regular type tire (preferably a TR-Tubeless Ready type). You then add a sealant, like Slime, Stan's, or Orange to seal stickers and thorns. There are reasons people prefer tubeless, (1) Thorns typically will seal themselves preventing flats; (2) You don't get "pinch flats" if you want to run low pressure because there is no innertube; (3) You can run a much lower pressure to give more grip on mountain bike trails and also a SOFTER RIDE THAN A REGULAR TUBED TIRE. If you want to make your bike much more enjoyable to ride, check into going to this type tubeless system and carry plugs (like Dynaplug) with you in case you ever do have a low tire. The ONLY drawback to going tubeless is that you need to change the sealant out every 3-12 months, depending on bike use, temperature, and brand of sealant. If you want more info on this, I can send you a link.

 

[linklemming]

I don't think hardly anyone would want tires like the ones you describe. There may be some solid rubber tires out there, and there may be some "no flat" inserts. I assume that is what you have. But almost all serious mountain bikers and many fat tire bikers prefer "tubeless" to "tubed" tires. To go tubeless, you duct tape the spokeholes in your rims to prevent air from escaping, add a valve stem, and put on a regular type tire (preferably a TR-Tubeless Ready type). You then add a sealant, like Slime, Stan's, or Orange to seal stickers and thorns. There are reasons people prefer tubeless, (1) Thorns typically will seal themselves preventing flats; (2) You don't get "pinch flats" if you want to run low pressure because there is no innertube; (3) You can run a much lower pressure to give more grip on mountain bike trails and also a SOFTER RIDE THAN A REGULAR TUBED TIRE. If you want to make your bike much more enjoyable to ride, check into going to this type tubeless system and carry plugs (like Dynaplug) with you in case you ever do have a low tire. The ONLY drawback to going tubeless is that you need to change the sealant out every 3-12 months, depending on bike use, temperature, and brand of sealant. If you want more info on this, I can send you a link.

I don't think hardly anyone would want tires like the ones you describe. There may be some solid rubber tires out there, and there may be some "no flat" inserts. I assume that is what you have. But almost all serious mountain bikers and many fat tire bikers prefer "tubeless" to "tubed" tires. To go tubeless, you duct tape the spokeholes in your rims to prevent air from escaping, add a valve stem, and put on a regular type tire (preferably a TR-Tubeless Ready type). You then add a sealant, like Slime, Stan's, or Orange to seal stickers and thorns. There are reasons people prefer tubeless, (1) Thorns typically will seal themselves preventing flats; (2) You don't get "pinch flats" if you want to run low pressure because there is no innertube; (3) You can run a much lower pressure to give more grip on mountain bike trails and also a SOFTER RIDE THAN A REGULAR TUBED TIRE. If you want to make your bike much more enjoyable to ride, check into going to this type tubeless system and carry plugs (like Dynaplug) with you in case you ever do have a low tire. The ONLY drawback to going tubeless is that you need to change the sealant out every 3-12 months, depending on bike use, temperature, and brand of sealant. If you want more info on this, I can send you a link.

1.) Thorns: Yes tubeless with sealant can fix that but so can a tube with the same sealant (i.e. stans, slime not so much). I have been doing this since about 2006 on several bikes and havnt had a flat since. My major source of flats are thorns (Im guessing there are a good 20-30 in my tires right now). People have been doing this for quite along time. They are just not as vocal as the 'tubeless converts'
2.) You can run lower tire pressure:Yes you can do that but might run into burping issues which can be very dangerous. I had this happen on a ride about 10 miles in 4 years ago landing a jump and went over the bars and fractured my wrist, the painful 10 miles back had me questioning tubeless and I havnt used it since. Had many instances burping before that but were just annoying (I ran tubeless on that bike for 5 years)
3.) Softer Ride, yeah its there but for me wasnt as significant as you state.
4.) The dynaplug thing: Yes, HUGE advantage and a quick way to fix a flat. That being said, I havnt had a flat since 2006 on any of my MTBs.
5.) Weight is definitely an issue and the 27.5+tubes on my ebike are huge and heavy but we are talking 50+# ebikes here.
6.) Pinch flats: I have only had two pinch flats in 30 years and both were likely due to slow leaks from a previous puncture.

There can be many rim/tire compatibility issues that make tubeless not work so well. Many companies claim TRL but is it really? Personally if I was to go tubeless it would be with UST tires and rims or perhaps some stan rims or some other 'known good TRL rim'.

My ebike gets me further and further away from home and getting back is more important than most of the things you state (except for the dynaplug thing)

For me Stans in a tube is easy and non messy. I have to add more about 6 months in and just buy new tubes at the beginning of the season but I find that if I let tubes go much longer than that they start having issues around the valve stem.

 

[PDoz]

I've got 2 mtb's running tubeless and 3 running tubes, I must admit the tubeless bikes have given me more grief. I still prefer them, but that's probably me being a slave to fashion.

Sliced tyre recently - ( rock vs rubber) - obviously not something I would expect sealant or dynaplugs to fix, but what surprised me was how much of a pita it was to get the sealed tyre off the rim - I ended up walking the bike to a shop (3/4 km) and getting them to replace the tyre.

The rim tape on my " tubeless ready" norco had a thin split that took months to find. It just kept going flat and leaking sealant around the valve . The bike shop and I had removed that tyre / replaced several valves / tried multiple variations on o rings etc. It was when I gave up and went to fit a tube that I noticed the split!

Subjectively, I think the tubeless bikes need tyres pumping up more often. It may be that I start with higher pressures in the tubed bikes, but I suspect once a month I'm pumping them up?

Sealant is messy. Changing tyres or fitting a new tube becomes messy. I now carry rubber gloves on the bike for if I need to fit a tube to an unfixable puncture.

 

[tcombest]

1.) Thorns: Yes tubeless with sealant can fix that but so can a tube with the same sealant (i.e. stans, slime not so much). I have been doing this since about 2006 on several bikes and havnt had a flat since. My major source of flats are thorns (Im guessing there are a good 20-30 in my tires right now). People have been doing this for quite along time. They are just not as vocal as the 'tubeless converts'
2.) You can run lower tire pressure:Yes you can do that but might run into burping issues which can be very dangerous. I had this happen on a ride about 10 miles in 4 years ago landing a jump and went over the bars and fractured my wrist, the painful 10 miles back had me questioning tubeless and I havnt used it since. Had many instances burping before that but were just annoying (I ran tubeless on that bike for 5 years)
3.) Softer Ride, yeah its there but for me wasnt as significant as you state.
4.) The dynaplug thing: Yes, HUGE advantage and a quick way to fix a flat. That being said, I havnt had a flat since 2006 on any of my MTBs.
5.) Weight is definitely an issue and the 27.5+tubes on my ebike are huge and heavy but we are talking 50+# ebikes here.
6.) Pinch flats: I have only had two pinch flats in 30 years and both were likely due to slow leaks from a previous puncture.

There can be many rim/tire compatibility issues that make tubeless not work so well. Many companies claim TRL but is it really? Personally if I was to go tubeless it would be with UST tires and rims or perhaps some stan rims or some other 'known good TRL rim'.

My ebike gets me further and further away from home and getting back is more important than most of the things you state (except for the dynaplug thing)

For me Stans in a tube is easy and non messy. I have to add more about 6 months in and just buy new tubes at the beginning of the season but I find that if I let tubes go much longer than that they start having issues around the valve stem.

Most of my posts about tubeless are about the Juiced fatbike RCS and HF11000 rims using Maxxis TR tires. Those are the only ones I have experience with, and they work well together. I weighed fat tubes and they were 550gm each. Mr. Tuffy's were 250gm each. Yes, we are talking about 65lb bikes, but extra 3lbs in the wheels is very undesirable. Especially when you like to spend some time with the motor off and riding like a non-ebike. But I see your points, everyone has their favorite method of avoiding flats. Bike on...

 

[linklemming]

Most of my posts about tubeless are about the Juiced fatbike RCS and HF11000 rims using Maxxis TR tires. Those are the only ones I have experience with, and they work well together. I weighed fat tubes and they were 550gm each. Mr. Tuffy's were 250gm each. Yes, we are talking about 65lb bikes, but extra 3lbs in the wheels is very undesirable. Especially when you like to spend some time with the motor off and riding like a non-ebike. But I see your points, everyone has their favorite method of avoiding flats. Bike on...

Funny, I never considered the whole issue of a hub motor into this discussion as both my ebikes are mid-drive. Not having to take off the wheel to put in a new tube would be a huge benefit