Tubeless tire experiences

[rochrunner]

For something to do over the winter, I'm thinking of having a new set of wheels made up for my Vado SL 5.0 and then make the decision on whether or not to go tubeless. I know that a number of you have been running tubeless for a while and would like to hear what you think about your experience, any pros or cons, things you wish you'd known beforehand, etc.

For example, one thing I'm not clear on is the necessity of and procedure for changing the sealer liquid. For one thing, my bike sits for at least 5 months over the winter and I've heard that can lead to problems. I'll also have to figure out if I need to carry any sort of flat-repair kit. I've seen advice to carry a tube just in case, but IMO not having to carry a tube is a big reason for going tubeless in the first place.

Any comments welcome.

 

[fooferdoggie]

For something to do over the winter, I'm thinking of having a new set of wheels made up for my Vado SL 5.0 and then make the decision on whether or not to go tubeless. I know that a number of you have been running tubeless for a while and would like to hear what you think about your experience, any pros or cons, things you wish you'd known beforehand, etc.

For example, one thing I'm not clear on is the necessity of and procedure for changing the sealer liquid. For one thing, my bike sits for at least 5 months over the winter and I've heard that can lead to problems. I'll also have to figure out if I need to carry any sort of flat-repair kit. I've seen advice to carry a tube just in case, but IMO not having to carry a tube is a big reason for going tubeless in the first place.

Any comments welcome.

You would need to clean out the sealant as it would dry. tubeless tires are best if you ride often. I am testing out flat out but on some tires it leaks out in a month or so. it does not dry up though. usualy I tool to fix a hole the sealant cant sea. but I have not had one yet that needed that. some extra sealant just in case and a spare tube.

 

[Sparky731]

Yes, sealant is a must and an extra squirt or two every few months provides added protection. Since going tubeless and thousands of miles, I have had zero flats compared to too many with tubes. Slime or similar can be very messy if you need to replace the tube — which I needed to do before tubeless.

You still need to carry a pump given the tire will lose air before self-sealing. But I have not been stranded as before. I am a tubeless believer.

 

[Ben J]

My takeaway from tubeless is that it's more maintenance overall, _but_ you can do almost all of that maintenance at home instead of by the trail. If you are really prone to flats for whatever reason (e.g. pinch flats with low air pressure) then it might shift to the point where tubeless is also less maintenance.

 

[Deacon Blues]

If your bike is going to sit for 5 months you'll need to take the tires off the rims and clean out the sealant. If you don't, it will pool at the lowest point and dry out.
My road bike goes off the road for the winter months and onto my indoor trainer. I replaced my back tire with an inexpensive one, because the trainer roller is very hard on tires. I'm using a tube, because the chances of a flat are low.
I'm not sure what I'll do with my front tire, which has almost new sealant in it. Maybe every time I use my indoor trainer I'll give the wheel a half a dozen hand spins.

Sealant should be replaced every year. You should also add sealant every 90 days. If you don't the sealant will dry out and you will get flats (ask me how I know).
If you do get a flat with sealant do not use a C02 cartridge to re-inflate the tire. The C02 will react with the sealant and turn it into a semi-solid state (ask me how I know...again).

 

[gpburdell]

I've done a lot of research on going tubeless, but haven't pulled the trigger on any of my bikes.

The two primary benefits appear to be that being able to repair most flats at home instead of on the road, and the ability to run a little lower pressure thus providing more comfort. Downside is there's regular required maintenance in which you add to (and sometimes remove/replace) the sealant. Still wise to carry a tube & boot in case of a substantial cut that doesn't seal, as well as pump/CO2 and tools.

I've chosen not to go tubeless simply because I so rarely get a flat and haven't felt the ride quality to be in need of softening on either my Vado or Creo. Others who see flats regularly may find the benefits to be worth the maintenance.

 

[Allan47.7339]

If you are a light rider and you only get a flat every year or so, it's not worth it. If you are not riding the bike all of the time it's not worth it because the sealant dries out. I still carry two tubes, a pump and CO2.

I average one flat every three or four months and tubeless allows moving the repair from the side of the road to indoors. You still need to stop and let the sealant work if it's a larger hole or be ready to plug the hole. Small holes frequently seal unnoticed. Sealant will need to be cleaned off the bike after puncture as it sprays from the hole.

I put a maintenance reminder on my calendar to check sealant about every six weeks. The check only takes about 15-20 minutes. Never work work with sealant in anything other than gardening clothes or on any surface that is not washable.

 

[m@Robertson]

You can use a product called Flatout as a tubeless sealant, and it never hardens or needs replenishment, unless you blow some of it out of a nail hole in your tire or similar. No maintenance. The product is not expressly made as a bicycle wheel tubeless sealant, nor is it marketed as such. But it works very well. I use the Sportsman formula which is available on Amazon. Home Depot stocks the 'outdoor power equipment' formula which apparently works just as well.

I use it for a tubeless sealant on my Surly Big Fat Dummy (fat tires, 20 psi) and my Intense Tracer e-mtb, (26x2.3 tires running 60 psi on street and 30 psi on trails). Also on my enduro (29x2.3, 65 psi, 25 psi on trails). I am redoing the Surly this weekend and it has had one dose of Flatout in its tubeless setup for about three years - the entire life of the tires which are now worn out.

Orange Seal creates a dry, elastic rubber film on the inside of the tire. Stan's dries into mobile bits called "Stan's boogers". Frequency of refill can be a couple of months to several months. A 5-month sit over the winter will need a refill unless you use Flatout.

You need a flat repair kit. But its different than a tubed tire. Look up "side of bacon flat repair" to see the things. I carry them but have never had to use them. You want to look at your chosen sealant's hole repair size. Usually its 1/4" or 1/8". But again on paper at least Flatout wins with 1/2". I've never gone that far but a line of roofing nail holes got sealed once.

The big thing with tubeless is it provides total protection against tiny things like thorns or goat heads. If you live with those, it turns a flat prone tire invulnerable. If you hit big things, thats where tubeless can be problematic depending on the brand of sealant, and that leads to the need to first insert a bacon strip, and if that doesn't work to resort to a tube. Tubeless tires that come off the bead seal MAY require a fast air inflow from a compressor or tubeless pump to get the tires to pop onto the rim bead. Thats not going to happen trailside so if the tire unseats from the bead, the easiest way to recover trailside may be to put in a tube, inflate, get home and then a do-over. I've never had to do this but I carry a tube just in case.

EDIT: For my urban daily driver bikes, I go with dead-serious belted tires (Marathon Plus Tour), thicker tubes (Schwalbe AirPlus) and FlatOut inside for sealant. Its more fault-tolerant than tubeless when you add in the belt and the flatproof reputation of the Marathon tire line. If I can't fit a belted tire on a cargo / commuter bike, I put Tannus Armour (which has its own set of failings) underneath, a thornproof tube under that, Flatout inside, and a little air

 

[Nubnub]

I went tubeless a little over 2 years ago on my 4.0 SL and about a year ago on my Tero. Combined I probably ride aroun 5-7k miles per year. On tubed bikes, I probably had to change a puncture flat approx 6 times a year. On tubeless I haven't had to do any road tire changes. I did have one instance where my Tero tire burped. Definitely a bigger problem than a tube puncture replacement. Sealant everywhere and I probably wouldn't have been able to reseat the tire easily. I resorted to a car rescue . I now carry a tube, rag and baggie in case of a reoccurrence on a longer ride or where car rescue is less possible as being to reseat the tubeless tire with my handpump would be my biggest concern.

I definitely am still getting punctures but the sealant is working as expected and has maintained sufficient pressure for all my rides. It is a little more work to regularly check tire pressure and add sealant,. Adding sealant maybe every 3-5 months. But not having to deal with flats during the ride makes it worth it for me. Was running high pressures on tubed tires and wasn't getting snake bite flats but being able to run lower pressures is also a plus.

Swapping tires is also a little more involved than with tubes. I usually remove the valve core and seat the tire before adding the sealant. The first few times I did use a CO2 cartridge and add the sealant later using a syringe thru the valve. Later I got an air compressor so swapping/seating a new tire is ez.

 

[DaveMatthews]

I had 3 flats in about 4/5 months on my first ebike. That was late 2018. I went tubeless after that and it's been 4+ years since I've had a flat.
Never going back to tubes.
I use Stan's regular sealant and carry a Fumpa battery powered pump, spare sealant, Stan's Darts, smaller bacon strips along with various tools. If that can't get me going I have a cell phone and a sob story.
If my repair only is a partial fix (slow leak) then the Fumpa can reinflate the tire up to 6 times limping home.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

For me, at least, the advantages come down to this:

• 90 percent of flats are resolved by reinflating the tire, spinning it, and maybe airing it up a little more to get it back to the optimum pressure.
• 90 percent of the flats not resolved by airing up are resolved with a tire plug (e.g. a bacon strip or Stan's dart).
• the whole setup is somewhat lighter. which you may or may not notice (I did notice).
• you can run at somewhat lower tire pressure, which helps for comfort and traction in some riding conditions.

The disadvantages are:

• that 1 percent of flats that aren't easily resolved can be messy and ugly alongside a lonesome highway or deep in the wilderness.
• you need to watch your tire pressure a little more closely and probably will need to air up your tires once a week or so. also, valve cores inevitably get clogged with sealant and have to be pulled and cleaned or replaced.
• the learning curve on getting all of the pieces of a tubeless setup dialed are literally messy. expect a spectacular mess the first couple of times you do it. have a shop apron, a mop, and a bucket ready. don't try it on carpeting in your living room.
• some combinations of rims and tires just won't work or won't work very well -- meaning they won't hold air and will slowly leak.
• you will have to feed sealant into the tire. in practice for me tires usually only last about 1200 miles or so anyway so I've never had to add sealant.

 

[linklemming]

I have been trying tubeless various times since 2007 and for me its just not worth the effort and maintenance required. Sure if you only have a bike or two, it might not be an issue but when you have lots of bikes like me, tubeless is just not worth the hassle.

The option I use is tubes with Stans, I have only had two flats since 2007 with this setup. The flat fix in both cases was to just add more stans (the original stans likely dried out).

90% of the flats I would encounter are due to goatheads. There are always goatheads on my tires.

The advantages of Stans with Tubes is
1.) Tire pressure loss is minimal, I can go several weeks without needing to add air.
2.) Clean and easy to do. No messy tubeless tire setup, Inject stans in the tube and your done. Easy to swap out with a new tube every year. I typically put in a new set of tubes every year with fresh stans and then refresh at 6 months.

 

[Catalyzt]

For me, at least, the advantages come down to this:

• 90 percent of flats are resolved by reinflating the tire, spinning it, and maybe airing it up a little more to get it back to the optimum pressure.
• 90 percent of the flats not resolved by airing up are resolved with a tire plug (e.g. a bacon strip or Stan's dart).
• the whole setup is somewhat lighter. which you may or may not notice (I did notice).
• you can run at somewhat lower tire pressure, which helps for comfort and traction in some riding conditions.

The disadvantages are:

• that 1 percent of flats that aren't easily resolved can be messy and ugly alongside a lonesome highway or deep in the wilderness.
• you need to watch your tire pressure a little more closely and probably will need to air up your tires once a week or so. also, valve cores inevitably get clogged with sealant and have to be pulled and cleaned or replaced.
• the learning curve on getting all of the pieces of a tubeless setup dialed are literally messy. expect a spectacular mess the first couple of times you do it. have a shop apron, a mop, and a bucket ready. don't try it on carpeting in your living room.
• some combinations of rims and tires just won't work or won't work very well -- meaning they won't hold air and will slowly leak.
• you will have to feed sealant into the tire. in practice for me tires usually only last about 1200 or so anyway so I've never had to add sealant.

This is all really interesting. I've never added sealant to my tubeless tires-- I don't think, or not to both of them. The rear one may have had some added at the LBS after the last slow leak, or he might have just replaced the valve core (which now I can do myself.)

I am surprised no one mentioned decreased rolling resistance. Looks like the difference is minimal if you're running latex, but for butyl, it's significant.

For an underpowered bike, I think tubeless is critical, particularly if you have to deal with steep hills. Of course, when I went tubeless, I also swapped out the tires and went from 2.3s to 2.1s, but the net effect was like changing a 40nm motor to a 50nm motor. It was huge.

Might only save you 100 grams per tire, but that's wheel weight, which you can feel more. Big bike and big motor, if you don't have a lot of thorns and broken glass, it's a matter of preference. Lighter bike and smaller motor with steep hills, I think tubeless really helps a lot.

 

[fooferdoggie]

If your bike is going to sit for 5 months you'll need to take the tires off the rims and clean out the sealant. If you don't, it will pool at the lowest point and dry out.
My road bike goes off the road for the winter months and onto my indoor trainer. I replaced my back tire with an inexpensive one, because the trainer roller is very hard on tires. I'm using a tube, because the chances of a flat are low.
I'm not sure what I'll do with my front tire, which has almost new sealant in it. Maybe every time I use my indoor trainer I'll give the wheel a half a dozen hand spins.

Sealant should be replaced every year. You should also add sealant every 90 days. If you don't the sealant will dry out and you will get flats (ask me how I know).
If you do get a flat with sealant do not use a C02 cartridge to re-inflate the tire. The C02 will react with the sealant and turn it into a semi-solid state (ask me how I know...again).

they actually say 3 to 6 months depending on the sealant. like Stans it has the shortest life and cant handle c02. muc- off can go maybe 6 months and can handle c02.

 

[rob feature]

Just get off the fence & try it. I'll never go back to tubes. I won't bother getting too deep into the whys as that's been pretty well covered here and all over the www, but they just work exceptionally well. Flats are a thing of the past and maintenance is super quick with a syringe & valve tool. They even make little portable bottles that can squirt right into the valve, which I've used on bikes with tubes when a quick exit was desired.

The only place tubes would possibly make more sense is in a bike that just sits all the time and isn't ridden very far. But for bikes that are actually being ridden, tubeless all day.

 

[DaveMatthews]

I keep one of these small bottles with me...

Amazon.ca

 

[mschwett]

i have around 15,000 miles on my three bikes in the last 2 years, and every ride ending flat i've ever had was on a bike with tubes, which accounts for only around 2,000 of the miles. zero ride ending flats on the other 13,000 miles, two different bikes and quite a few tire variations. unless you're going waaaaay to the extreme of flat resistant tires and tubes (you may as well ride on a solid disk of rubber at that point IMO LOL), there is simply no comparison.

to the other questions...

i wouldn't let it sit for 6 months. at best it'll just dry out and you add sealant, at worst it'll get all clogged and clumped and you'll have to clean it out / remove it. better to set it up at the beginning of the season, imo.

i do not carry a tube except for situations where a failure would result in serious risk or inconvenience, like a very long ride far out of civilization and cell phone range. i carry a CO2 canister and head, and the dynaplug plug kit, which is tiny and stupid easy to use. http://www.dynaplug.com/bike.html no fooling around with bacon strips, you just jam the thing in there, pull it out, trim off the extra plug, add some air (if needed) and roll. depending on the size of puncture, you may not even need to add air - i've had two where a little sealant starting dribbling out, i could hear the PSSSHHHH, so i stopped, jammed the plug in, pulled it out, and was still within 5psi of where i started.

i don't use a ton of sealant, so i generally just add an ounce or two every 3 months or so, and my tires don't last much longer than 6 months typically (around 2,000-3,000 miles) which basically means by the time it's ready for a second topping up, it's removed and a new tire mounted in it's place. at that point there's typically still a wet layer of sealant all around the interior of the tire but not a pool of liquid.

unless you ride very, very little, or never ever ever get flats, tubeless is really superior IMO.

 

[fooferdoggie]

I have been playing around with flat-out but I think it's only practical if the tire has a great bead fit. like the front tire on my tandem seems to hold the fluid well but I had it all leak out in the back in a week or so ) I was also battling the valve leaking) but I saw today some leaking out of the bead. since it dos not dry its easy to see. muc-off works well but man it can be messy and it screws up valves really bad.
I also notice with the flat out it can take 30 or more miles of riding to get the tire to seal.

 

[mschwett]

I have been playing around with flat-out but I think it's only practical if the tire has a great bead fit. like the front tire on my tandem seems to hold the fluid well but I had it all leak out in the back in a week or so ) I was also battling the valve leaking) but I saw today some leaking out of the bead. since it dos not dry its easy to see. muc-off works well but man it can be messy and it screws up valves really bad.
I also notice with the flat out it can take 30 or more miles of riding to get the tire to seal.

why bother with flat out? it's not really designed as a tubeless tire sealant, is it!?!? there are so many choices that were actually designed for the purpose....

 

[fooferdoggie]

why bother with flat out? it's not really designed as a tubeless tire sealant, is it!?!? there are so many choices that were actually designed for the purpose....

because you dont have to clean it out and it does not plug valves and it seems to hold air better. all sealants have their drawbacks. if you go by the manufacture about the max is 6 months before you are supposed to remove the old and add new. Stans is even less. so I am trying to be lazy here. in winter it will be a pain to change out sealant.