Trek's version of the SL?

[rochrunner]

I got an email from Trek the other day announcing some new nice-looking "lightweight" e-bikes and was surprised at some of the similarities to the Vado SL. It even comes in "non EQ" and "EQ" models. Some similarities to the SL, besides the "40lb" weight, are the 250W motor and the availability of a range extender that uses the bottle cage mount (sound familiar?). But one huge difference is that it has a rear hub motor that was apparently developed by Shimano. It looks smaller than many hub motors that I've seen and the bike still has derailleur shifting. I wonder if Shimano has managed to refine their design to eliminate some of hub motors' typical drawbacks.

One curious thing to me is that they are rating it for only an "up to 35" mile range. Seems low, and besides, as we well know, there are a lot of factors in real-world EV range. Ridden conservatively in Eco this seems really short!

Another big difference from the SL line is the price. These bikes are only about US$2400, which is very cheap for e-bikes from a major manufacturer.

My sum-up is that, while these really can't be compared to the Specialized SL bikes, there are a lot of people in the market for an e-bike for whom these will have great appeal.

 

[mschwett]

I got an email from Trek the other day announcing some new nice-looking "lightweight" e-bikes and was surprised at some of the similarities to the Vado SL. It even comes in "non EQ" and "EQ" models. Some similarities to the SL, besides the "40lb" weight, are the 250W motor and the availability of a range extender that uses the bottle cage mount (sound familiar?). But one huge difference is that it has a rear hub motor that was apparently developed by Shimano. It looks smaller than many hub motors that I've seen and the bike still has derailleur shifting. I wonder if Shimano has managed to refine their design to eliminate some of hub motors' typical drawbacks.

One curious thing to me is that they are rating it for only an "up to 35" mile range. Seems low, and besides, as we well know, there are a lot of factors in real-world EV range. Ridden conservatively in Eco this seems really short!

Another big difference from the SL line is the price. These bikes are only about US$2400, which is very cheap for e-bikes from a major manufacturer.

My sum-up is that, while these really can't be compared to the Specialized SL bikes, there are a lot of people in the market for an e-bike for whom these will have great appeal.

sounds interesting - which bikes are you talking about? i was just reading about their fuel ex-e which uses a custom 50nm harmonic pin motor, super small and quiet, but still mid drive. 40lb for a full suspension e-bike with 360wh battery, 50nm torque. $$,$$$ for the lightest ones though. definitely aimed at the levo SL, but with some new and impressive features.

 

[CodyDog]

Interesting. I would imagine that some of the large companies are noticing the success Specialized is having with the SL I gamble to say that we might also see some new gravel related e-bikes hit the market.

 

[rochrunner]

sounds interesting - which bikes are you talking about?

The links are in my original post.

 

[mschwett]

The links are in my original post.

d’oh ! didn’t see that. they look like pretty nice all around bikes.

 

[retiredNH]

affordable Trek ebikes. Who knew? Looks like good choices for townies where it's not very hilly. Wouldn't work in my area though. Rode into the town center today for a lunch event (music and free food!). Only 4 miles but 500 feet of elevation.

 

[kahn]

I really like that 40+lbs is "super light weight!" But it does look interesting. Now since it does not have a mid-drive motor could they put a double chainring setup on it to provide better climbing ability since the q-factor would be less of an issue.

 

[mschwett]

I really like that 40+lbs is "super light weight!" But it does look interesting. Now since it does not have a mid-drive motor could they put a double chainring setup on it to provide better climbing ability since the q-factor would be less of an issue.

i know, right?!? 40lb is not “super light!”

<30lb : super light ( for an ebike )
30-35 : light
35-45 : average, heavy as hell for a regular bike!
45-55 : heavy
55+ : very heavy!!

cut all numbers in half for regular bike equivalent

 

[TrevorB]

affordable Trek ebikes. Who knew? Looks like good choices for townies where it's not very hilly. Wouldn't work in my area though. Rode into the town center today for a lunch event (music and free food!). Only 4 miles but 500 feet of elevation.

I have similar commute and hub motors that pass my 65nm bosch don't seem to have problem. That is on super steep section which they get up OK. For most commuters 360wh is plenty.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

If Trek is offering a rear hub-drive motor e-bike, they could have just used the Mahle Ebikemotion X35 like everybody else (Orbea, Cannondale...) What makes me surprised is that a company as big as Trek didn't find a manufacturer of a mid-drive motor equivalent to the SL 1.1. Yes, Trek has experimented with the Fazua but the Fazua Trek e-bikes are very expensive and the motor has no reputation yet.

i know, right?!? 40lb is not “super light!”

<30lb : super light ( for an ebike )
30-35 : light
35-45 : average, heavy as hell for a regular bike!
45-55 : heavy
55+ : very heavy!!

cut all numbers in half for regular bike equivalent

My Vado SL EQ is 37.4 lb, and it is lightweight for me. I could lift it and carry over a barrier. I understand Mark you have different criteria for the e-bike weight though. Think about 33 lb Orbea with the rear hub drive motor. As an owner of a lightweight Creo and a bike that is the most lightweight in the market: Would you ride an Orbea e-bike?

 

[mschwett]

If Trek is offering a rear hub-drive motor e-bike, they could have just used the Mahle Ebikemotion X35 like everybody else (Orbea, Cannondale...) What makes me surprised is that a company as big as Trek didn't find a manufacturer of a mid-drive motor equivalent to the SL 1.1. Yes, Trek has experimented with the Fazua but the Fazua Trek e-bikes are very expensive and the motor has no reputation yet.


My Vado SL EQ is 37.4 lb, and it is lightweight for me. I could lift it and carry over a barrier. I understand Mark you have different criteria for the e-bike weight though. Think about 33 lb Orbea with the rear hub drive motor. As an owner of a lightweight Creo and a bike that is the most lightweight in the market: Would you ride an Orbea e-bike?

the road and commuter versions of the orbea bikes look pretty nice. the x35+ system doesn’t excite me too much, but I don’t really have anything against modestly powered hub drives. I doubt it feels as natural as a good mid drive, since you’re spinning the heavy motor around even when turned off, but for a commuter I think it could be solid, and a version with the new X20 system would be of interest to me.

that said, trek’s new harmonic pin motor seems on paper at least to eliminate some of the disadvantages of mid-drive motors, allowing them to be even smaller, lighter, and quieter. time will tell what the drawbacks, if any, are.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

trek’s new harmonic pin motor

The concept is new to me.

For me, it looks Trek lost their direction completely.

 

[Deacon Blues]

I just watched a Eruo-bike 2022 Youtube video, which included a showing of Trek's new Fuel Ex-E motor. It looks like the motor will mounted in their mountain bikes first, then hopefully they'll start installing them in their commuter/road bike models.
I'd be interested in replacing my Giant Defy carbon road bike with a Fuel Ex-E powered carbon road bike and was under 30 pounds.

 

[mschwett]

I just watched a Eruo-bike 2022 Youtube video, which included a showing of Trek's new Fuel Ex-E motor. It looks like the motor will mounted in their mountain bikes first, then hopefully they'll start installing them in their commuter/road bike models.
I'd be interested in replacing my Giant Defy carbon road bike with a Fuel Ex-E powered carbon road bike and was under 30 pounds.

the only thing i'm wondering is ... if it was this "easy" to make a motor with a very high reduction ratio (as required for an efficient e-bike!) ... why hasn't everyone been doing it? this type of gear system is not new, frequently used in robots and other application where extreme precision without backlash is required.

there must be a catch!

 

[Deacon Blues]

I guess it's actually a good thing that this motor is coming out in the mountain bikes first, so if there are problems, or poor performance we'll know about it before they move to installing this motor on their commuter/road ebikes.

 

[kahn]

I just watched a Eruo-bike 2022 Youtube video, which included a showing of Trek's new Fuel Ex-E motor. It looks like the motor will mounted in their mountain bikes first, then hopefully they'll start installing them in their commuter/road bike models.
I'd be interested in replacing my Giant Defy carbon road bike with a Fuel Ex-E powered carbon road bike and was under 30 pounds.

Seems rather interesting. But more downtube screen time between the legs is ergonomically poor in my addled opinion!!!

Review: Trek's 2023 Fuel EX-e Is Light & Nearly Completely Silent - Pinkbike

The Fuel EX-e is extremely quiet when pedaling, and there's no rattling on the descents.

www.pinkbike.com

 

[dodgeman]

Trek seems pretty accurate on their range. If you go to their website you can put lot of parameters in, weight, wind, road type, assist level etc and the range seems to match what I get in the real world.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Am I wrong to understand the hub-drive motor installed in Dual Sport+ is a completely different motor than the one (mid-drive) used in the Fuel FX-e which is made by TQ?

 

[mschwett]

Am I wrong to understand the hub-drive motor installed in Dual Sport+ is a completely different motor than the one (mid-drive) used in the Fuel FX-e which is made by TQ?

the fx-e is the new harmonic pin mid drive. afaik the dual sport is a fairly typical small hub motor?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I had some thoughts. Currently, Trek operates these e-bike systems:

• Older Bosch: plethora of e-bike models such as Allant+, Powerfly, etc.
• Bosch Smart System: The most expensive Rail 9.9 and 9.8 e-bikes
• Fazua: E Caliber, Domane + LT
• No name hub-drive motor e-bikes: Dual Sport+
• TQ HPR50: Fuel EXe
• Electra e-bikes.

What brand could handle so many e-bike systems and not get into trouble? Or, leave the existing users alone?

Here's the full list:

• Dual Sport+ - no name hub-drive motor
• FX+ - no name hub-drive motor
• Verve+ - older Bosch
• Allant+ - older Bosch
• Fuel EXe - TQ HPR
• Powerfly - older Bosch
• Powerfly Equipped - older Bosch
• Rail - older Bosch
• Rail with smart system - Bosch Smart System
• E-Caliber - Fazua
• Domane+ - Fazua
• Electra - (I do not even want to guess)