Torque vs cadence sensor...

[Lar]

... if you have or had both which do you prefer for off road and why?

Bonus question: Did you have to program or is your experience right out of the box?

 

[rich c]

If off road means climbing and narrow rocky trails, mid drive with torque sensor is the motor to get. If off road means fire trails, gravel, and flat land, either will do.

 

[CodyDog]

I have both. Torque sensor is the only way to go. TS makes more of a natural peddle cycle. Cadense goes to the level of power you have chosen as soon as you start to turn the pedal. Example: One of my bikes is a Cadence Sensor bike. If I choose level 5 assist and pedal very slowly the bike will do 24mph.

 

[Lar]

I have both. Torque sensor is the only way to go. TS makes more of a natural peddle cycle. Cadense goes to the level of power you have chosen as soon as you start to turn the pedal. Example: One of my bikes is a Cadence Sensor bike. If I choose level 5 assist and pedal very slowly the bike will do 24mph.

So with the torque sensor can you leave it in level five and it will regulate the speed (depending on the amount of torque you apply to the pedals) from 0 mph to max?

 

[fooferdoggie]

So with the torque sensor can you leave it in level five and it will regulate the speed (depending on the amount of torque you apply to the pedals) from 0 mph to max?

well sort of it will give you assist so it makes peddling easier. the harder you peddle the more the motor helps. of course that means going faster but it really means going faster with less effort.

 

[BarryS]

Torque sensor is the amount of for lack of a better word . Stress you are applying to you Drivetrain caused by your cadence : If you have onboard monitor like most companies supply : Cadence Sensing is kind of a give in to have. You can have a Regular none electric Bike with a Wireless remote and see what your cadence is : Torque sensor is something that would I'm assuming cut or back off stress to your system when you shift .
I Notice in Courts Video Reviews. Whenever it's a Bike without a Torque Sensor . He warns to stop pedaling for a second when Shifting . I have a Vado and my Buddy just got an Alliant 7S . His Bike because it has Bosch has the Torque sensor : My Brose Motor doesn't . I didn't really notice any difference when shifting his bike vs Mine. Probably because i STOP PEDALING FOR A SECOND EVEN ON A GENERIC Bike. Unless I am shifting to another Chainring . WHich isn't an issue on a Electric, Some maybe

 

[Lar]

well sort of it will give you assist so it makes peddling easier. the harder you peddle the more the motor helps. of course that means going faster but it really means going faster with less effort.

So why the need for different levels of assist?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

So with the torque sensor can you leave it in level five and it will regulate the speed (depending on the amount of torque you apply to the pedals) from 0 mph to max?

Yes. With mid-drive motor/torque sensor, you can pedal very lightly and slowly in the highest PAS and you can still ride slowly. I experienced that on my last Monday ride in a city where I had good reasons to ride almost in standstill (for example, while approaching signals to wait for them to turn green), was in Turbo mode, and had to concentrate my whole attention on the traffic around; no time to reduce the PAS level. My other hub-drive motor e-bike with cadence sensing simply doesn't let me ride slowly.

So why the need for different levels of assist?

For instance, when you need to ride up a serious ascent you need more power/torque from the motor. Or, you need to accelerate very very quickly. Or, you want to maintain high speed at relatively low cadence. Given assist level for mid-motor multiplies your leg power/torque and the motor responds with assistance. For example, my Vado set to 50% assist amplifies my legs with 160% ("it's 1.6 x you!"). If I want more assistance, I use 100% support "it's 3.2 x you!" If I need more workout, I use lower assist levels (some e-bikes such as Specialized or Giant ones let you tune the assist levels).

Generally, the more support you are getting, the less tired you are but it comes at the cost of greatly reduced battery range. Also, riding solely in high PAS modes increases the wear on the drive-train.

 

[linklemming]

So with the torque sensor can you leave it in level five and it will regulate the speed (depending on the amount of torque you apply to the pedals) from 0 mph to max?

Not really.

Torque Sensors amplify the user power input. If your putting in 100 watts and the assist is 1:1, the total power output will be 200 watts.

I have played with software that does that on a mid-drive kit and it looked at the force and cadence and calculated the user power and amplified this number by the assist level.

A set power output only equates on a set speed in a zero wind flat ride so the speed could vary depending on wind and hills.

I am not aware of any torque sensor bikes that try to equate user power to speed(assuming your below the speed restriction). Perhaps Stefans bike works differently

For offroad, torque sensor all they way

 

[rich c]

So why the need for different levels of assist?

The PAS level controls amount of current going to the motor. Maybe some people never adjust it, but I lower it as I don't want maximum power all the time. It dramatically shortens battery range when you ride in turbo. But I do leave it in turbo on intermediate single trails when I'm climbing and shooting over rocks and roots. Besides with that kind of riding, I'm all done for after 10 miles and have plenty of range left. In a Bosch, the assist levels max out at this percentage of assist
TURBO: 340%
SPORT: 240%
TOUR: 140%
ECO: 60%

 

[stanmiller]

So why the need for different levels of assist?

The PAS level sets a baseline. And you pedal above that baseline. You still get all the exercise but reach your destination faster.

If I set my bike to PAS #2, the motor will give me 12 mph assist. The 4 mph over that to cruise at 16 comes from my legs.

 

[fooferdoggie]

So why the need for different levels of assist?

its how much you want to work. like on turbo I can peddle and hardly get my heart rate about 90 and do 20mph. the lower the level the more I have to work to keep that speed. all the levels will get me to the max 28mph its just how much I want to put into it. my computer shows me how much work I do verses the motor. on turbo I may only be doing 20% of the work at the lowest level eco I would be doing about 60%

 

[McCorby]

I am not aware of any torque sensor bikes that try to equate user power to speed(assuming your below the speed restriction). Perhaps Stefans bike works differently

Bosch, Brose, Yamaha, and Shimano Systems also have sensors to measure vehicle speed and pedal cadence. They use these sensors along with the torque sensor to provide the appropriate amount of assist for a given vehicle speed. Vehicle speed is directly proportion to pedal cadence. Vehicle speed is not determined by the assist level setting (eco, trail, and boost for Shimano). Only the rider‘s pedal cadence determines the bike’s speed. The assist setting only controls the amount the motor assists.

 

[Explorer-1]

Not another one of these threads.

 

[Sierratim]

I've had both cadence and torque sensing ebikes. With a throttle the cadence sensing bike worked well. With the torque sensing bike I don't need a throttle, as soon as I press on the pedal, it goes.

My current ebike is a Specialized Vado. At its simplest their PAS system basically amplifies the rider's power by a fixed percentage that varies with the rider selected assist level. The selected level of assistance continues, regardless of speed, up to the motor assist speed limit (20mph for Class 1 bikes, 28mph for Class 3). The assist levels are rider programmable through the Specialized app to allow for example a rider on mostly level terrain to conserve battery power by lowering assist levels vs a rider on steep terrain that may want much higher assist levels. Speed is determined solely by the rider's cadence. It is not a function of the assist level.

 

[stanmiller]

I've ridden bikes with torque sensing and the engagement is sureal. If I was a mountain biker or serous road biker, I'd want a mid-drive with a torque sensor. But for my day-to-day commuting around town a cadence sensor is fine.

 

[fooferdoggie]

I've ridden bikes with torque sensing and the engagement is sureal. If I was a mountain biker or serous road biker, I'd want a mid-drive with a torque sensor. But for my day-to-day commuting around town a cadence sensor is fine.

wife and I go light mountain bike riding on our tandem with a bosch motor its great. I can shift assist levels instead of gears as the terrain changes.

 

[McCorby]

Not another one of these threads.

Why this? Did someone post something that upset you and/or was incorrect?

 

[Lar]

Ok thanks I'm getting the picture. Now I do mountain bike in addition to ebiking so say I'm emtb and I'm looking to save my knees for when a mtb ride, what's the technique for expending very little energy but getting the optimal speeds required for a fast run with the torque sensor type?

 

[McCorby]

Ok thanks I'm getting the picture. Now I do mountain bike in addition to ebiking so say I'm emtb and I'm looking to save my knees for when a mtb ride, what's the technique for expending very little energy but getting the optimal speeds required for a fast run with the torque sensor type?

Set it to the highest assist level and select the appropriate gear for your preferred pedal cadence and bike speed.