Too Much Emphasis on Flat Protection

[Alaskan]

There are many ways in which a tire can preform well or poorly, road or trail grip, durability, rolling resistance, weight, overall compliance and ride quality and, yes, puncture resistance. It seems that for most, the holy grail of tires is puncture proof or highly puncture resistant.

The problem is that, with the thick hard inner layer of protection, liners or inserts that are designed to reduce punctures, ride quality also suffers.

Now that I have been riding all these miles on ebikes and dealt with many flats tires, I have honed my skills as far as changing out a tube or a tire, to the point where it is really no big deal. That has freed me up to pursue other tire qualities besides puncture resistance. For me, now, ride feel and tire compliance have risen above puncture proof in the hierarchy of tire qualities. First and foremost I want my bike to provide the best ride possible.

Wherever possible, I now prefer to use tubeless setup on my ebikes for the lowest rolling resistance, greatest compliance and at the same time lowest puncture frequency. This is a great option on eroad, egravel or emountain bikes for which there are a good range of tubeless choices. It becomes more of a problem in the realm of commuter, fat tire and hybrid bikes for which there are way fewer tubeless tire choices.

I urge all my fellow riders to practice and hone their skills in tire changing. This can be done at home and repeated often enough to where it gets easier and faster and becomes less of a mental road block to using tires that improve the ride that but lack the puncture protection we all seek.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I now prefer to use tubeless setup on my ebikes for the lowest rolling resistance, greatest compliance and at the same time lowest puncture frequency.

The best solution available. It only requires TLE ready rims, and such wheels are expensive and not always available in the preferred size. Also, some riders must swap their tyres for the winter which means:

• Either a spare wheel-set
• Or messy work during the tyre replacement.

Having said the above, I feel so happy to live in the country of surprisingly clean roads. I have not experienced a puncture since the Summer 2020 (and that puncture was caused by a piece of quartzite because a forest road used quartzite instead of gravel!) My gravel cycling buddies, however, often suffer from punctures and whoever of them is smart and "not poor" converts to tubeless!

 

[pmcdonald]

I'm with you there @Alaskan.

Recently converted to tubeless (thanks @Stefan Mikes for the recommendation). The previous Marathon/Tannus combo offered superb peace of mind but oh my, the tubeless setup is night and day a better ride. It feels like a whole new bike: nimble, cushioned, faster rolling. The old setup was heavy, slow and dead feeling. I reserve the right to change my mind completely a few punctures in!

I will say a tyre change depends a lot on the bike and the tyre. These new Pathfinder tyres go on so easy - 30 seconds and done. The Marathons were a few minutes of struggling and cursing. The G-One Rs more like 30 minutes of abject misery. If I was lucky.

The mid drive is also a lot easier than my previous hub bike. Between the finicky dropouts, torque arm, and recessed motor cable it was a mission in itself just to reseat.

But yeah, both bikes are tubeless now and I don't see myself going back any time soon.

 

[Gordon71]

Not in my case. I had a flat on my Rad Rover at 600 miles. Fixed it and added a Mr Tuffy to the rear tire that went flat and then slimed both tires. 3900 miles later and no flats since. Original tires are about shot so I'll swap them out this winter and will add a Mr. Tuffy to the front while doing it. Can't say I noticed any difference in the ride after fixing the original flat.

 

[6zfshdb]

There are many ways in which a tire can preform well or poorly, road or trail grip, durability, rolling resistance, weight, overall compliance and ride quality and, yes, puncture resistance. It seems that for most, the holy grail of tires is puncture proof or highly puncture resistant.

The problem is that, with the thick hard inner layer of protection, liners or inserts that are designed to reduce punctures, ride quality also suffers.

Now that I have been riding all these miles on ebikes and dealt with many flats tires, I have honed my skills as far as changing out a tube or a tire, to the point where it is really no big deal. That has freed me up to pursue other tire qualities besides puncture resistance. For me, now, ride feel and tire compliance have risen above puncture proof in the hierarchy of tire qualities. First and foremost I want my bike to provide the best ride possible.

Wherever possible, I now prefer to use tubeless setup on my ebikes for the lowest rolling resistance, greatest compliance and at the same time lowest puncture frequency. This is a great option on eroad, egravel or emountain bikes for which there are a good range of tubeless choices. It becomes more of a problem in the realm of commuter, fat tire and hybrid bikes for which there are way fewer tubeless tire choices.

I urge all my fellow riders to practice and hone their skills in tire changing. This can be done at home and repeated often enough to where it gets easier and faster and becomes less of a mental road block to using tires that improve the ride that but lack the puncture protection we all seek.

Good advice indeed!

I would love to go the tubeless route but unfortunately, none of the rims on my 3 bikes are tubeless compatible. My bikes are also hub drives and at my age, changing a flat on the rear is difficult to do on the trail. In my case, flat protection is a major factor. Out of necessity, I rely on Slime filled puncture resistant tubes & tires as well as Tannus liners with a Gaadi tube as backup.

Yes, there is a big sacrifice in performance but it's the price I pay for the peace of mind. I partially compensate for the stiff ride by dropping the tire pressure and using a Kinekt suspension seatpost & Redshift suspension stem. I also ride mostly gravel trails at relatively low speed so road handling isn't a big factor.

I considered swapping my existing rims to go tubeless but they are mag wheels with an integrated hub motor and the cost would be prohibitive. Tubeless ready rims will be high on the priority list for my next bike.

 

[J.R.]

I don't put a lot of effort and expense preventing flats now, when I was commuting 34 miles r/t year round I put more effort and expense preventing flats on my winter studded tires. I never had to repair a flat on snowy roads/paths and didn't want to either. Repairing a flat on a 20°F morning when your commuting on a schedule can ruin your day. Otherwise I don't get a lot of flats and a repair is no big deal.

 

[AHicks]

I'm getting a good ride with great rolling resistance using tubes with Slime and balloon type tires (2.3"-2.8" width) running at minimum pressures (30 psi or less). Maybe there's more or better available going tubeless, but this is working well enough for me and my riding style. My experience is Marathons ride like a roller skate going down a brick road. Once I discovered the Schwalbe Super Moto-X tires, I was immediately spoiled. Big Bens and other Schwalbe baloon types are likely similar. There's a huge difference in ride with these tires, nothing subtle about it.....

 

[jabberwocky]

In my commuting days (mostly on a carbon road bike) I'd get maybe 4 flats a year. But that was on 23mm road tires with tubes. I could change a road tube in ~2 minutes. Definitely recommend practicing a few times. Flip bike upside down, pop wheel out, tire lever to pop bead off one side, remove tube (keeping it oriented the same), feel around inside of tire to see if something is poking through, inspect tread to see if glass or something is embedded, grab spare tube and put a few pumps of air in, put in tire, lever bead back on, inflate, reattach tire. The main thing that would make it take longer is if I couldn't figure out what punctured it (which is why its important to keep tube oriented the same as the wheel, so you can try and find the puncture and orient it to the tire to look for the cause).

Tubeless with latex sealant largely solves this for your average rider. Since going tubeless on my bikes I've gone years without flats. And it doesn't destroy road feel or rolling resistance like inserts or heavy flat resistant tires do. The main issue is remembering to refresh the sealant every 3-6 months, since it dries out.

 

[Deacon Blues]

Two of my bikes are set up to run tubeless and after a year of zero flats I had a flat tire on both bikes within the last three weeks.
In both cases it was my fault, because I waited too long before adding tire sealant so there wasn't enough liquid sealant in the tires to plug the hole.
I've learned my lesson and will add sealant every 3 months, instead of 12 months.

 

[jabberwocky]

Two of my bikes are set up to run tubeless and after a year of zero flats I had a flat tire on both bikes within the last three weeks.
In both cases it was my fault, because I waited too long before adding tire sealant so there wasn't enough liquid sealant in the tires to plug the hole.
I've learned my lesson and will add sealant every 3 months, instead of 12 months.

Yeah, my only flat since going tubeless was on the mountainbike, and it was because the sealant was totally dry. Fortunately a friend on the ride had a small bottle of stans he kept for emergencies, we squirted it in and aired up the tire and finished the ride. I've since added a similar bottle to my camelbak for the next time I forget.

 

[Avg_Joe]

Two of my bikes are set up to run tubeless and after a year of zero flats I had a flat tire on both bikes within the last three weeks.
In both cases it was my fault, because I waited too long before adding tire sealant so there wasn't enough liquid sealant in the tires to plug the hole.
I've learned my lesson and will add sealant every 3 months, instead of 12 months.

Or you could use FlatOut, which does not dry out.

 

[newts]

There are many ways in which a tire can preform well or poorly, road or trail grip, durability, rolling resistance, weight, overall compliance and ride quality and, yes, puncture resistance. It seems that for most, the holy grail of tires is puncture proof or highly puncture resistant.


I urge all my fellow riders to practice and hone their skills in tire changing. This can be done at home and repeated often enough to where it gets easier and faster and becomes less of a mental road block to using tires that improve the ride that but lack the puncture protection we all seek.

That's fine for you and I agree everyone should know how to fix a flat. But even if you know how an ebike is usually a lot heavier and maybe more difficult to do than normal. And for most of us the added power means not worrying about rolling resistance or weight. If you can avoid the flat in the first place then does become a concern.
For tires I try to find a good compromise between everyday commuting and weekend gravel trails. For flats I got some puncture resistant and/or slime type tubes.

 

[m@Robertson]

Or you could use FlatOut, which does not dry out.

^^^ Exactly this. Flatout, unlike the various flavors of Stan's or Orange Seal is rated for sealing serious holes. Up to 1/2". And I've seen it come pretty close to doing that when it recovered from a 6-nail strip of roofing nails (needed my onboard electric air pump to refill 4 times but it held and a couple years later that same tire is still in use).

I have I think 8 bikes, with about half of the ones in regular use being tubeless. I think the point where comfort wins over fault tolerance shifts significantly on a bike used for daily commuting and errands. On a leisure ride, my schedule can tolerate all manner of interruptions as a minor annoyance. When on a schedule heading to work or back from the store with a load of stuff from Home Depot... flats are borderline intolerable. I am only very slowly becoming willing to rely entirely on the goo inside of the tire to keep me rolling. If it was Stan's or Orange Seal then for sure the answer would be no. They are great for thorns and the errant nail, but for a serious hunk of broken glass or sharp edged metal strip, they're out of their league. A tubed tire can be temp-fixed much more easily given an emergency repair after a major event (w/Park tire boot or even duct tape, or the dollar bill trick) since the repair doesn't have to be air tight.

Tubeless tires also tend to be lower-rated in terms of weight ratings. I just made my Apostate tubeless (I needed an offroad tread for trail traction my Schwalbe pickups couldn't deliver). The 26x2.35 tires I had on were rated for 155kg. the replacements, that were the same size, are rated for 100kg. The difference in weight was enormous, but I was substituting an e50-rated ebike tire for a tubeless mtb tire. I can get away with the lesser capability on what is otherwise just a for-fun bike.

 

[Alaskan]

That's fine for you and I agree everyone should know how to fix a flat. But even if you know how an ebike is usually a lot heavier and maybe more difficult to do than normal. And for most of us the added power means not worrying about rolling resistance or weight. If you can avoid the flat in the first place then does become a concern.
For tires I try to find a good compromise between everyday commuting and weekend gravel trails. For flats I got some puncture resistant and/or slime type tubes.

Relying on that extra power for overcoming accumulated careless weight added to the bike is just what I am calling into question. I Personally prefer to have that added power available for greater speed or longer range rather than using it in overcoming heavy tires stuffed with tubes, liners, and various goops that also make for spongy or sluggish ride feel.

Better quality bikes are not just designed to hang components and gear on but are also fine tuned to create a desirable ride quality. That added benefit is squandered when the tires are loaded with thicker tubes, heavy liners , etc.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

reattach tire.

That's the most difficult part. Especially the last inches of the tyre bead.

 

[fooferdoggie]

Or you could use FlatOut, which does not dry out.

thats not meant for tubless tires. plus it wont work on anything over 50 pis.

 

[jabberwocky]

The solution (IMO) is to run tubeless but carry a tube with you. Thats what I do. If I get a flat that the sealant isn't capable of sealing, I'll just remove the tubeless valve and stick a tube in there, with a boot as necessary. Its never happened though.

Obviously everyone needs to decide their tolerance for flat resistance vs ride feel. I've run a few variations on marathons, armadillos, pasela TGs, etc. Hated them all. I'll take my chances with a nice supple casing road/gravel tire and deal with flats if I need to. Personal preference though. Ebike at least negates some of the negatives of the more flat resistant tires (crap rolling resistance).

 

[jabberwocky]

That's the most difficult part. Especially the last inches of the tyre bead.

Really depends on the tire/rim combo. I have some that I can roll the tire back on just with my hands, and have some that it takes a lot of force with a good tire lever. Gotta drop the bead into the center of the rim opposite where you are levering the last few inches on with those.

 

[newts]

Relying on that extra power for overcoming accumulated careless weight added to the bike is just what I am calling into question. I Personally prefer to have that added power available for greater speed or longer range rather than using it in overcoming heavy tires stuffed with tubes, liners, and various goops that also make for spongy or sluggish ride feel.

Better quality bikes are not just designed to hang components and gear on but are also fine tuned to create a desirable ride quality. That added benefit is squandered when the tires are loaded with thicker tubes, heavy liners , etc.

Different use cases. If you are optimizing range over comfort and convenience fine. For fun rides it's easier to risk a flat.

90% of my miles are commuting instead of the car. I have about 5 pounds of pyrex in my lunch kit every day I am not going to sweat a few ounces in a tougher tube if it keeps me from changing a tire on the side of the road in the winter or getting late for dinner.

 

[m@Robertson]

thats not meant for tubless tires. plus it wont work on anything over 50 pis.

They are now saying in their (web site) advertising what many had already figured out by just trying it out: The Sportsman Formula works as a tubeless sealant that never dries out.

Also I specifically called them and asked about using it as a tubeless sealant on my 60 psi Maxxis Aggressor tires that went on about what I guess is now 2 weeks ago. I called them out on the high pressure issue and they said a) they are not yet recommending Flatout on other-than-fat tubeless tires because they haven't completed testing yet and b) "air pressure is not an issue". What they mean by that exactly we will see. But so far my tires are holding 60 psi perfectly. Before sealant went in, they deflated in about a day. So its able to do *something*. No bubbling thru anywhere when it went in. Rims are DT FR560's with DT tape and Muc-Off valves. The bike is mostly on urban streets so its only a matter of time before we see whether it seals a flat at the higher pressure.