Throttle and PAS on Scorpion/HyperScorpion

[Bruce Arnold]

For both the Scorpion and the HyperScorpion, I've found that there's a way to split the difference between wattage used from one PAS level to the next. Let's say you're on PAS 1. If you go to PAS 2, it may be more assistance than you need (if you like actually pedaling, as I do.) But you want a little more assistance. If you just slightly crack the throttle open so the Throttle Assist Boost (TAB) barely kicks in, the wattage on the meter goes up almost exactly one-half the distance between Level 1 and Level 2.

To put it another way, if X is the wattage at Level 1, Y is the wattage at Level 2, and T is the wattage when you've barely feathered the throttle while still in Level 1, then T = X + 0.5(Y-X).

This is a very handy feature. I use it all the time for slight inclines, catching up with the wife if I've dropped back to let a car pass, etc.

If the torque sensor worked as well on my HyperScorpion as it did on my old CCS, this wouldn't be necessary. You'd pedal a little harder, the torque sensor would up the wattage, you'd get the boost you want. I don't like the way the torque sensor is configured on the HS and have set the bike to cadence-only. Using the throttle like this is the equivalent of a "manual torque sensor."

Open the throttle about a third of the way and you may as well have gone to Level 2. Open it all the way and you may as well have gone to Level S. Of course there are times when you want the TAB for a shot of power and it's nice not to push the buttons up a level or two and then back down in a couple of seconds when you don't need it any more. I've been a fan of TAB for that reason ever since I got my CCS, 3 years ago.

I have Race mode enabled but have only used it once, just to try it. Sport and Race are identical if you're pedaling, unless you get over 28 mph, when Sport quits on you but Race keeps providing assistance, which I can't do on this bike (I could on the CCS.) Race does let you go past 20 mph with throttle-only. I haven't seen the situation when I wanted to go that fast without pedaling yet, so meh.

 

[Gregory Benner]

I have a new Hyper Scorpion, also have a Rad Mini. I haven’t noticed the issue you mentioned, I live on the coast in Oceanside, hills Everywhere I ride.
So far, I have found the torque sensing substantially superior to the cadence sensor on the Rad. I was curious about your comment above were you say “have set the bike to cadence-only. Using the throttle like this is the equivalent of a "manual torque sensor." . I didn’t realize that was possible, could you explain perhaps how you do that?

On my Rad, the cadence sensor really only works at one speed, which varies by which PAS level it’s on. If I try to go faster I’m peddling against the motor, which is very difficult, if I want to go slower every time I touch the pedal it speeds back up to the applicable speed. I find it very awkward if I’m riding with other people who are going at a different speed, either slightly faster or slightly slower than cadence speed on the Mini.

 

[Dunbar]

I think he means using the throttle like a rheostat (and not like an on-off switch) to add just enough power to give you the desired amount of motor assist. Sometimes I do that on my Cross Current if I’m going up a short hill rather than bumping up the assist and then having to bump it right back down. If you have the throttle right next to the grip it’s pretty easy to do with your thumb once you get the hang of it.

 

[Gregory Benner]

I did a little more research, apparently in the advanced settings you can turn the torque sensor completely off, and only have cadence. From what I read, you cannot turn off the cadence. I to use a slight bit of throttle going up steep hills, although I find the torque sensor works by just paddling a little harder on the more gradual inclines.

 

[Dunbar]

I thought the new bikes had a zero assist mode. That would theoretically allow you to turn off PAS and control the motor power with the thumb throttle but I’ve never used it myself so I’m not sure if it works that way. What I was referring to was a scenario where the controller is giving you max power for a given PAS setting and you briefly want to add a bit more power with the throttle.

 

[Gregory Benner]

Dunbar, I’m new to the HS, but From what I see so far I can put it in Eco mode, which they say is enough to make it ride like a regular bike, I,e just offsets the heavy weight. Then use throttle when you want or need. I’m 72, and always ride with PAS assist. I haven’t explored all the advanced options, but I do understand that you can turn off the torque sensor, but not the cadence. I do understand what you’re saying re: throttle and it’s what I use all the time. I’ve been riding motorcycles since 1962. The significant difference to me is that with the torque sensor I can easily accelerate to over 20 in PAS2, yet also ride slowly at 10-12. Couldn’t do that with cadence sensors . This is my fourth EBike, and by far the best.

 

[Dunbar]

Yes, that is what I like about torque based PAS since you can spend most of your time just pedaling like a normal bike without having to think about it. But sometimes I just need a little more power so I’ll move the throttle to the 30-50% position and it gives me a short boost. I also use the throttle to get the bike back up to speed since the Bafang motor in the CC is geared for high speed cruising and feels sluggish to me <15mph. I’m so used to riding with a throttle now that I don’t know if I can live without one. Even with a really good torque based mid-drive setup.