Three months with CCS: Good and Bad

[jinim]

I received my CCS a little over two months ago, and it has been both a great and poor experience. When I first assembled my bike, I took it for a ride around the block. The first problem occurred as the power to the bike cut out and the LCD display turned off. I immediately contacted Juiced bike support, and they were quick to respond within a day. It turned out I had a bad battery fitment, and they sent me a new socket. Before receiving my replacement battery socket, I duct taped the battery to the frame so the bike would work. I rode it for a week like this before my replacement part arrived. After replacing the battery socket, the bike was working great for about a month.

It's been an excellent commuter bike. I have a 4 mile ride to and from work, and I'm able to get to work faster than if I were to even drive to work. It's got plenty of power for the hills in San Francisco. There's some pretty decent hills around me, especially coming from the gym where I live. Although I didn't test other e-bikes before I bought this, I'm very happy with it; when it works.

I started noticing some problems again a few weeks ago, as the power to the motor would suddenly drop for a brief moment, before resuming again. There was no cut out from the battery light and the LCD remained on. I wound up duct taping the battery to the frame again, and it seemed to resolve the problem temporarily. About a week ago as I was trying to leave work, I turned the bike on, but the battery indicator showed no bars and kept flashing on the LCD. There was no power available to the motor, even though the bike would turn on and the battery was fully charged. I contacted Juiced bike support last Thursday, but this time it took them until this Tuesday to respond. They had me check the connections. It turns out that the plastic piece for the battery connector to the socket on the bike broke slightly at one of the pins. This left a piece of plastic on one of the pins. I saved my old socket and put that on the bike, and the bike worked again with the battery once again duct taped to the frame.

I just rode back from work, and the power to the bike just completely cuts off now as I'm riding it (LCD shuts off and power cuts out). The bike without power is almost unrideable on even low grade hills/inclines. It almost feels like the motor is providing some resistance. I'm not sure how to explain it, but maybe it just feels that way because it's a super heavy bike. It doesn't feel the same though as if I rode a bike with a heavy pack. I kept having to turn the battery and power on and would get power for 30-40 seconds as I rode home today. I was able to have the power stay on long enough in sections to get up some hills and eventually back home.

Yesterday, Juiced advised me to be careful going over bumps to avoid this issue. I've had it for a little over two months; riding it as I would all the other bikes I own. I get that I'm traveling at a much higher rate of speed, but this seems like it's a design flaw. Even with the replacement battery socket, after a little over a month of use, there was some looseness that developed so the battery would move laterally again (bad fitment). I could pull the battery towards me again recently (while it stayed flush initially after replacing the bad part), and the power would cut out. From other e-bikes I've seen, many of them have the power connection at the bottom. This seems like a more logical design, as gravity should help keep the pin/battery connection in place. In addition, the locking mechanism applies pressure on the battery towards the connection. This battery connects at a perpendicular angle, but then the locking pin pushes the battery down. This allows there to be lateral movement on the battery, causing fitment issues. In my case, the battery connector broke off from the movement caused by riding the bike as the bike developed fitment issues again. This is what Juiced wrote me yesterday morning, but I haven't heard a response yet from them. It's been a great bike when it's working, but it seems like there's a design flaw with the battery connection. Hopefully they resolve this. It's a great bike at a reasonable price when I haven't had issues with it.

New reply for the ticket #SU00018894



Thank you for sharing the details. Do you still have the battery box? This way you can send us both the pack and key socket for review while we send you a proper replacement.

We will recommend to prevent this from happening again to be careful while going over bumps. Our bikes are great commuters for the road as long as we do the basic tuneup and prevent excessive wear

Please let us know your comments and we will continue solving this issue asap

 

[Chris Hammond]

Sorry to hear about your difficulties with your bike. Honestly, the Reention battery mount design is probably one of the things I really don't like about the bike. It is not really natural or fluid to install the battery, it should honestly be easy to use the key when remounting the battery, but I can only ever get mine to lock in place by slamming it in from at least an inch out.
I get why they use it, as there is no room to slide straight from the top.
Fortunately, for me, the only cut out issues I have had, have been when I failed to fully engage the locking pin. Replacing the battery in position has fixed this for me each time.
Good luck, I am sure Juiced will take care of the problem and send you a new part.

 

[jinim]

Thanks for the replies. I did search and see that thread about the battery holder issue. I'm wondering though if there's no real long-term fix for this issue, since it seems to be a design flaw. I have the larger 19.2 ah battery. That post mentioned the problems returning once the gel tape flattened over time. The socket part is made of plastic, and that's attached by two screws with another screw attaching a plastic piece to that part. I found how I tightened that screw even made a difference in being able to get the battery in. Given the materials, it seems like that will always have some movement or possible warping with bike use. There's nothing that really holds the battery in from moving laterally (only downward force on the battery, but no real lateral force to keep it flush to the connector). Eventually, it just seems like this design will fail with normal use of the bike. Maybe better materials will help? Hopefully, Juiced will remedy this somehow.

 

[Barry S]

Is there any kind of mod you can do on your own that will help take some of the weight of the battery off the connector and/or stabilize it?

 

[jinim]

I think if I just duct taped the battery to the frame once I get new replacement parts, that probably would help long-term, since it'll prevent the lateral movement. It's not exactly ideal to have to duct tape the battery to the frame though.

 

[Barry S]

Perhaps something stronger that won't adhere to the paint or battery like a velcro strap, or velcro compression wrap, or even an old BP cuff.

 

[Reid]

In my opinion it is vital to loosen the nut that holds the key socket plug, as shown in my video.

The socket plug should float so it can follow the female socket of the battery pack when the pack slightly moves around.

My battery is not entirely immobile after it clicks in. But it does not ever break contact.

I loosened that nut the day I got the bike last December, loosened it before the first ride. Because it makes less than zero sense for that connector to be immobile, considering that the battery pack can and will shift slightly, sooner or later.

If the male and female parts of the connector are both rigid and the pack moves around connection failure must result in time.

 

[jinim]

Interesting. That’s certainly worth a try. Do you have a larger battery as well?

 

[Bruce Arnold]

Thanks for the review of your first 3 months with the bike. Sorry to hear about this battery problem though. Hope it's resolved soon.

 

[jazz]

Don't think this issue can be permanently resolved since it is a design fault

 

[Reid]

Interesting. That’s certainly worth a try. Do you have a larger battery as well?

I have the standard battery.

Your excellent photos above confirm the hypothesis that a rigidly mounted plug into the rigid socket of a shifting battery will destroy the integrity of the electrical contact..

 

[jinim]

Unfortunately, it seems like this issue will remain unless the design or possibly the materials are changed. Just a correction, I've owned this bike for a little over three months, and not two as I wrote a few times in this post.

 

[Bruce Arnold]

Don't think this issue can be permanently resolved since it is a design fault

You may well be right about that, Jazz. However, I have the 17.4 Ah battery -- not quite as heavy as the 19.2 but right up there -- and I haven't had a hint of this kind of problem. So if it's a design flaw, I'm either flying right under the radar, or I just lucked out and got a combination of parts with the tolerances just right, or ....

 

[Reid]

Unfortunately, it seems like this issue will remain unless the design or possibly the materials are changed. Just a correction, I've owned this bike for a little over three months, and not two as I wrote a few times in this post.

This battery mount system must be made hold the battery without any shake. If there is any shake that shake will increase in time. One way to stop the battery jittering its fit looser is to use the "gel tape" sort of fix recommended by (where did I read that?) Reention. For myself, I am going to use some sponge neoprene of which I have a small roll of 3/8" thick that I will skive to the indicated thickness with a single edge razor blade. Cutting it wet. Lay it in. It will compress right down and perfectly conform to the available space. No jiggle of the battery means no possible trouble with your contact and no ongoing, loosening fit.

 

[jinim]

I’m sure it has to do with the riding conditions as well. Juiced support recommended to be careful over bumps. I only have a 4 mile ride to work, but I usually leave around 6am with very little traffic and ride a 3 mile stretch with timed lights. I’m usually averaging 25mph or more if I catch all the lights. The road in some stretches definitely has a lot of bumps. If I’m careful and I slow down when the road gets bad, it somewhat defeats the purpose of getting the ebike. I bought it so I wouldn’t have to take Uber or the bus to work, plus I like that I’m getting a little bit of exercise. I bought the bike so I can get from my front door to work as quickly and efficiently as possible. I bought it also thinking I’d break even on transportation costs within a year, but with the bike being unusable at times, I’ve had to Uber to work lately. I used to not mind taking Uber in, but now it’s annoying since it takes longer and it costs money. If I were to bike normally to work, I’d probably be sweating for the next hour sitting at my desk (the hills in San Francisco are no joke). It takes me 12-15 min to get to work in the morning vs 30 or more with a regular bike. I’ve pretty much been biking everywhere now (work, gym, stores, etc), and my car has been sitting in the garage for the most part these 3 months. It’s probably some combination of usage, larger battery and initial part tolerances that lead to early failure of the connection. I started off with a bad fitment to start, but maybe the battery dimensions were off too. I have no clue how widespread this is or if others will have the same issue down the road. I’m hoping to get my CCS back in commission ASAP.

 

[Reid]

...the shake will increase in time because the plastic mounts have to take all that guff of the heavy battery.

The problem is entirely manageable.

A) loosen the lock nut of the frame mounted plug as shown in my demo video. Apply a bit of School Glue or similar reversible gunk to stop further loosening of the lock nut. The plug should be free to move radially and also tilt just a bit. About one turn loosen the lock nut.

B) With compressible material take up all the free play of the battery snapped into place. If the battery cannot move up/down/in/out one iota, it will not gradually deform the plastic upper and lower mounting plates in the frame and itself.

It is not badly engineered. It is just imperfectly executed because each bike requires careful hand fitting of the battery case and mounts for absolutely zero shake. And the plug socket, unfortunately and illogically, is immovably mounted on all our bikes. That is a big but easily fixed error.

 

[Bruce Arnold]

I'm careful but not fussy about bumps. Small ones, that's what I got the Cloud 9 seat for. Larger ones, I get up off the saddle and let knees and elbows take some of the brunt. At my weight (~300 lbs with gear) even small bumps are going to have an effect, you know? So I just don't see "be careful" as all that helpful. My guess, and it's just a guess, is that you had the bad luck to have two bad sockets in a row. With Reention turning these things out by the thousands, there have got to be some bad ones. I may be way off here, but if I were in your shoes, I would insist on yet another replacement socket before deciding that it truly is a design flaw. Unless Juiced has a better idea.

If we were getting a ton of similar complaints here on EBR, I probably wouldn't think this way. But we're not. It's worth considering.

 

[Reid]

I’m sure it has to do with the riding conditions as well. Juiced support recommended to be careful over bumps. I only have a 4 mile ride to work, but I usually leave around 6am with very little traffic and ride a 3 mile stretch with timed lights. I’m usually averaging 25mph or more if I catch all the lights. The road in some stretches definitely has a lot of bumps. If I’m careful and I slow down when the road gets bad, it somewhat defeats the purpose of getting the ebike. I bought it so I wouldn’t have to take Uber or the bus to work, plus I like that I’m getting a little bit of exercise. I bought the bike so I can get from my front door to work as quickly and efficiently as possible. I bought it also thinking I’d break even on transportation costs within a year, but with the bike being unusable at times, I’ve had to Uber to work lately. I used to not mind taking Uber in, but now it’s annoying since it takes longer and it costs money. If I were to bike normally to work, I’d probably be sweating for the next hour sitting at my desk (the hills in San Francisco are no joke). It takes me 12-15 min to get to work in the morning vs 30 or more with a regular bike. I’ve pretty much been biking everywhere now (work, gym, stores, etc), and my car has been sitting in the garage for the most part these 3 months. It’s probably some combination of usage, larger battery and initial part tolerances that lead to early failure of the connection. I started off with a bad fitment to start, but maybe the battery dimensions were off too. I have no clue how widespread this is or if others will have the same issue down the road. I’m hoping to get my CCS back in commission ASAP.

If the battery case is carefully fitted to the frame bumps will not harm the bike. I JUMP curbs and do not shy from bumps. A tiny bit of battery-to-frame play has lately been noted. No loss of electrical contact because it is very small play and my plug socket has been floating since the day I got the bike unpacked. I will shim with compressible material to eliminate the slight play of the battery to frame presently noticable (there was no play noticed months ago) and that will be the end of the less than immobilized, battery contact bouncing and contact destruction process, I think maybe for forever.

The one thing that I can do well is fix simple things. I feel their pain. Is why I am a piano technician and not a banker or administrator. Am stupid at people skills. So it balances out. Do you know the Law of Compensation, folks?

The Law of Compensation.

Folks, if a man has one leg short, why then, his other leg is bound to be longer.

And that is the Law of Compensation. (as observed by the above Bob Roberts in 1910)

 

[jinim]

I think this issue will mostly occur with the larger batteries. I have the 19.2 ah battery, it sticks out 3/4-1” away from the from frame. The battery will naturally want to fall away from the frame and connection given there’s nothing applying pressure on the battery to secure it towards the frame. I think they’ll need to create some bracket that secures the battery towards the frame, widen the frame, or change the design of the connector at some point. The new RCS frame is the same width as the wide battery, while the CCS frame is the same width as the narrow battery. This will probably lead to issues mostly with the larger battery as it’s not a natural fit for the CCS frame. I think I’ll just need to zip tie (as I’ve seen some people post) or duct tape the battery to the frame as a temporary solution when I get replacement parts eventually.

 

[TForan]

I have a 19.2 battery and it locks in rock solid. I wouldn't accept it in any other way.