Thread

[LimboJim]

My Bulls FS3 eMTB has a Brose motor, same as your Turbo Levo, Jim. Sure, Specialized "custom-programmed" the motor's software, but it's still cranking the same 90Nm of extra torque through the drivetrain. I also own a Haibike Sduro Allmtn+ with a Yamaha (80Nm), and a Motobecane w/Shimano (75Nm). My friends and I have put hundreds of trail miles on all three, and we've broken a few chains.

We've all been mountain biking since the early '90s, and consider ourselves to be experienced riders who know how and when to shift. eMTBs, however, are a different story. I find that they're far more susceptible than unassisted MTBs to bending chain links when shifting under any kind of load and/or the slightest cross-chaining, and are totally intolerant of standstill shifts (especially when caked in dried mud, which makes everything stickier). Of these three ebikes, the Bulls w/Brose has been the most prone to chain breaks, even when freshly cleaned and properly lubed. I suspect it's because of the motor's higher torque (it's also the heaviest of the three).

My 2002 Stumpjumper could go indefinitely without lubing its chain, and did 15 years ago when I first got it. One of my buds now wants to buy his own eMTB, which is great, but he only cleans his current MTB semi-annually, and maintenance is not something he does frequently, either. I told him what I'm saying to you - if you expect to treat an eMTB just like a mountain bike, you'll likely be disappointed. For me, pedal assist amplifies the fun factor by at least 10, but also requires three times the maintenance.

That's a trade-off I'm willing to make.

 

[Jim Laslett]

Wish I’d now this before I bought it
Very useful and interesting information thank you. Why don’t they just put heavier chain and sprockets on?
I don’t really want a bike that needs a new chain every month especially when it’s taking the front chain guide with it. Thanks for the info definitely gonna sell it now. Thanks again

 

[LimboJim]

Actually, SRAM came out with an 8-speed, 11-48t drivetrain specifically for eMTBs last year (great review of it here). It's called EX1, and thus far has only been available on higher-end models. They offer the same gear range as "normal" MTBs, just with wider gaps between each gear. I'll probably swap for it when my first cassette replacement becomes necessary.

I definitely find that 11-speeds are overkill for quality pedal assist bikes, and their chains have to be thinner by design.

 

[Jim Laslett]

I totally agree, I don’t need 11 gears on this bike especially as top gear is above the 20mph limit. I’d be happy with 8 and a thicker chain!

 

[LimboJim]

I hope you decide to keep your Levo, it's a helluva bike!

 

[Jim Laslett]

If there’s an option of putting a heavier chain on it, I would consider keeping it.
Apart from the chain its awesome and a really Useful bike

 

[LimboJim]

It may not be worth changing drivetrains before your current one's worn, but that's up to you.

I like KMC's X11e chain for my 11-speed eMTBs. It's an ebike-specific chain, but will still need more attention and care on your Levo than it would on your MTBs. I also suggest getting a 0.5% chain wear indicator, as most only check 0.75% and 1% wear. 11-speed chains should be replaced at 0.5% because they're thinner, and failing to do so can result in premature cassette wear.

 

[e-levity]

Hi Jim,

I’m surprised that your new Expert Levo came with a SRAM chain. The Specialized website says the 2018 Expert should have a KMC X11ET (recommended above by LimboJim). X11ET chains came stock on our ‘18 Comp Levos, and they have held up well to lots of abuse riding in desert sand. However, we haven’t used them in the type of mud shown in your original picture.

In any case I wouldn’t give up on a bike due to something as simple as a chain. Try a different one, and monitor wear as LimboJim suggests. I haven’t heard of SRAM Power Links (or KMC Missing Links) being especially susceptible to failure when caked with mud, but perhaps you should just switch to a pinned chain. I’ve had good luck with Shimano XTR pinned chains over the years, but now I’m even using their new removable link on one of my other bikes.

Good luck.

 

[bazzapage]

If you think about the engineering, a thinner chain is actually stronger than a wider chain...

 

[Jim Laslett]

I’ll ask Rutland and SRAM what’s the best upgrade and take it from there, really good suggestions, I wasn’t expecting to have to upgrade a new bike but I’ll give it a go. Looks like the 2018 have already had the chain upgrade as you say

 

[Alphbetadog]

Of these three ebikes, the Bulls w/Brose has been the most prone to chain breaks, even when freshly cleaned and properly lubed. I suspect it's because of the motor's higher torque (it's also the heaviest of the three).

I have a Bulls FS Enduro with the Brose motor for a little over a year and have never broke the chain and am just about to replace it as it is just out of spec. I ride this bike A LOT on rugged mountainous trails. Also have a Haibike for over 2 years and have only broke a non-ebike chain.

I always carry pins & a link, along with patches, replacement tube, inflator, etc, and have never had to use them for myself but have bailed out many others on the trail that where unprepared. It's been sort of like a reverse "Murphy's Law".

 

[Alphbetadog]

Of these three ebikes, the Bulls w/Brose has been the most prone to chain breaks, even when freshly cleaned and properly lubed. I suspect it's because of the motor's higher torque (it's also the heaviest of the three).

I have a Bulls FS Enduro with the Brose motor for a little over a year and have never broke the chain and am just about to replace it as it is just out of spec. I ride this bike A LOT on rugged mountainous trails. Also have a Haibike for over 2 years and have only broke a non-ebike chain.

I always carry pins & a link, along with patches, replacement tube, inflator, etc, and have never had to use them for myself but have bailed out many others on the trail that where unprepared. It's been sort of like a reverse "Murphy's Law".

 

[Manu]

the chain of sram is an EX1 PCEX1 for ebike ... the way in which the chain broke is not normal, the link stuck to the plate remains ............. the gravity and the dirt release the chain does not stick to the disc, derailleur tight chain well?

Check that is really that reference and check the arrow the reference letters are read from outside....PCEX1

check the derailleur and the chain may be a momentary latch on the derailleur due to dirt or a bad pin since it protrudes wider than the chain and puts the correct direction of the chain.
release the chain and check that you do not have rigidity between links.

Use oil chain.Do not use teflon or other varieties. Make sure that the chain oil enters the links and do not use a water pressure machine to clean the chain.
Make sure the derailleur is clean and turns easily.

 

[Jim Laslett]

Rutland cycles customer service are not offering any help even though the bike is covered by warranty and trading standards consumer rights. I’ve employed a solicitor
:-( I am truly shocked at the service. Looks like the bike will be going back. Shame because I think specialized is better than Rutland customer services :-(

 

[e-levity]

I don’t understand all the drama over a broken chain. Such a simple, easily solved, low cost problem.

Rutland Cycle’s comment that it is a “wear and tear part” is justified, and most (99%?) chain issues are the result of poor maintenance and/or improper shifting. However, not taking care of you, especially after a new bike purchase, is poor customer service. You need to find another LBS to deal with.

That said, why don’t you just buy a new chain, install it, and move on. No need to stress about solicitors or selling the bike. Get a Shimano XT(R) chain, some chain pins, and a Park Chain tool. 15 min and you’re on the road again, with a chain that avoids possible master link issues as well. Also recommend a Park chain wear checker if you’re going to be collecting mud on a regular basis.

 

[rich c]

I don’t understand all the drama over a broken chain. Such a simple, easily solved, low cost problem.

I agree whole heartedly, crazy drama over a link breaking on the chain! Have you ever heard of chain suck?
http://reviews.mtbr.com/workbench-how-to-un-suck-your-chainsuck

I guess you'll spend a month or so with a solicitor to prove your point, when as mentioned, you could be riding in a couple of days if you just fixed it and started riding again.

 

[Totalresults]

I’m most likely gonna sell it

Many of us feel your frustrations! Chain issues were something that I was concerned about with the build the Electric Bike shop is working on with me. A good reason why I really like this shop is the head mechanic was educated in Britain. Not only engineering, but electrical master knowledge and skills. I’m not one to pretend I have the knowledge needed, thus rely on others with the knowledge.
I agree that it’s really a pisser when design causes problems, yet not getting assistance from manufacturers With Names of companies who we all should avoid or utilize is why we like this board.

 

[Jim Laslett]

Ok so Rutland have offered me a chain out of good will.
I have spoken to the solicitor and they say:

That the bike is not fit for purpose and because I notified Rutland cycles within 28days I’m untitled to a full refund under consumer rights act 2015.
The letter was sent yesterday I’ve had no reply yet.

Looking at SRAM EV purpose made chain and sprockets you can see they have made less sprockets on the cassette. Which will put less strain on the chain as it will be at less of an angle. This suggests that the chain
And sprockets fitted to me bike are not suitable for 90 Nm of torque.
Fundamentally bike chains aren’t made to bend Side ways so I can see why they would be more prone to breaking. I don’t think it is down to the consumer to bare the cost of this fundamental oversight in design by specialized.

 

[Gus]

I can easily break the chain on my Bafang BBSHD if I push it too hard in the wrong gear or shift under load. Especially if it's a dainty 10-speed chain.

I've gotten over 1,500 problem free miles on a $18 KMC 9-speed chain that is not rated for ebikes (most can run a thicker 9-speed chain in a 10-speed drive chain). Mid-drives take some finesse when shifting to not overload the chain.

If you managed to shear the chain pins, I'd agree the chain is not adequate. This is pure tension.

If you broke a link at the joint, it's operator error during shifting. This is a lateral force that "popped" the link apart. This is common during cross chaining or shifting under load as the derailleur tries to move the chain laterally and fights with the cassette if there is still a load on the chain.

 

[Jim Laslett]

I can easily break the chain on my Bafang BBSHD if I push it too hard in the wrong gear or shift under load. Especially if it's a dainty 10-speed chain.

I've gotten over 1,500 problem free miles on a $18 KMC 9-speed chain that is not rated for ebikes (most can run a thicker 9-speed chain in a 10-speed drive chain). Mid-drives take some finesse when shifting to not overload the chain.

I wasn’t made aware that the chain was so fragile when I purchased the bike. If my car broke it’s drive shaft I would say the drive shaft is not strong enough or there is a fault.

It will probably take a month but at least I’ll get my money back and not be lumbered with a bike that has a weak link (pardon the pun)!