Things I learned (or think I've learned) doing e-bike travel this past summer

[Mass Deduction]

Hi there, I'm not sure if you realized or not but you added most of your comments (in bold) to my quote. This meant that most of it was not displayed, due to how EBR treats quotes. So I have copied and pasted each of your comments and will reply to each of them individually, so that they're all displayed by default.

Disagree totally. Large batteries take you further and can be charged more quickly without stressing the battery. 60% of my 30Ah. pack is 18Ah of usable power that has taken me over 80 miles with a light load (50 lbs. of gear) with no undo stress.

How is that a disagreement? My statement was about how far to drain each pack before switching to the next, not how big a pack you should take.

To your point, I do typically take the biggest packs with me I can get. So we actually don't disagree at all.

Easier said than done unless riding from motel to motel or campground to campground.

My long trips this year were all work trips, not touring trips. With work trips, I have found it easy to confirm in advance what storage and charging opportunities there would be.

Invest is the correct word... get a Grin Satiator for proper maintenance.

Would love to. I've looked at the item on the Grin website many times. With the possible and unconfirmed (at least for me) exception of Brose, the Satiator doesn't support any of the charging plugs I need (Bosch, Brose, and Shimano at present). If that ever changes, I strongly expect I'll invest in one. Trust me, I want to have one! Is there any suggestion of them bringing out new plugs for it for the new e-bike systems on the market?

Yes, use any and all 120V charging opportunities available, not a lot of ferries in Montana I'm assuming.

I live on an island so most trips for me involve one or more ferry trips. I can't speak for anyone else's experience.

I doubt the U.S. Mail Service or Brown will be thrilled with shipping a fully charged lithium pack. Just be self-contained.

I never said courier it, I said send it. I meant pass it on via a friend of a friend. I live on Vancouver Island, which is a very long island, and I have many relatives and friends who live up-island who can pass a battery on to someone else for me. I live near the southern tip of the island, and people come down here from time to time for different reasons.

Yes, use any and all 120V charging opportunities available. However, with a pair of 30Ah packs you won't find yourself stopping and begging for an hour worth of charge time nearly as often.

Probably, but I don't think 30 Ah packs are available for any of my e-bikes. But I do typically take the largest packs I can get, so I'm philosophically right in line with you here.

Is average speed important for some reason?

Yes. Very much so, for me. Like I said before, these were work trips not touring (the subject line is "e-bike travel", not "e-bike touring"). So I had to be at a certain place by a certain time, so I had to know how far it was, estimate how fast I would go, and from there I could estimate how long it would take me.

But even when I am touring, I enjoy performance touring where we challenge ourselves to see how far we can get in a day. It's not for everyone, but it's enjoyable for me. I'm a "set personal bests whenever possible" kind of person on the bike, I have been for a long time.

You are making it more difficult than it really needs to be.

Yes, and I acknowledged as much in what you were replying to. Here is what I said again: "Some people might find the degree of battery management I engaged in would be crazy-making, but I am a strategist at heart and I enjoyed the charge level management challenge!"

So yes, I'm making it more difficult than it needs to be, and I enjoyed that part of it. That's like someone saying cycling is making it more difficult than it needs to be when driving would be easier. Yes, and that's the point!

On a Class-3 ebike you are restricted from all Class-1 biking infrastructure, all National Parks, curbs and all sidewalks. With those restrictions why not just buy an electric-motorcycle, they are a lot easier to mount the license plate. Why is top speed or average speed important when you know it will be faster than when you were riding a standard bike?

Sidewalks? By default all bicycles are restricted/discouraged from sidewalks where I live (British Columbia). So that's not a relevant point to me.

Class-1-specific biking infrastructure? Sure, but my big trips this year were on a mix of highways and city streets (with highways being the bigger chunk of it).

I'm not sure of any e-bike rules for Canada's National Parks, or why I would want to ride in a National Park (except on a highway that goes through one maybe). My touring on both e-bikes and muscle-bikes has always been focused on gaining as much distance as reasonably possible each day.

Why would I want an electric motorcycle? I want power assist, I want to get exercise as I ride (even if I'm riding very fast). I'm not sure why you introduced that into the conversation.

Why is average speed important? Because I use it to predict duration/feasibility/etc. of each trip. None of my trips this year were recreational, they were transportational in nature.

That said, I do intend to do long recreational e-bike trips in the future. But, even there, average speed will be interesting as I can compare one e-bike ride vs. another e-bike ride. Why would I compare average speed of e-bike rides to muscle-bike rides when I can compare e-bike rides to other e-bike rides?

I'm getting the impression that you're more of a stop-and-smell-the-roses type of rider than me. If so, we're different, and that's OK.

I have racked up over 10K miles on my bike now and use it for everything from hundreds of miles of single-track, to long-distance touring, to bringing a weeks worth of groceries home. Observations are great when caveated as "limited" observations.

Agreed. Though since I did qualify my statements with the level of experience that I was associating my comments with, I'm not sure of what you're getting at?

 

[BBassett]

Hi there....

Thanks for taking the time man.

How is that a disagreement? My statement was about how far to drain each pack before switching to the next, not how big a pack you should take. I believe you referenced using several smaller batteries,

"I chose to carry multiple batteries, and as many chargers as I had batteries. I didn't always fully drain one battery dead before switching to a second, as I might get a recharge opportunity mid-ride. So you might want to (for example) have two batteries at 40% rather than one at 0% and the other at 80%. So how far you drain one battery before switching to the other is a key strategy. "

This is what I was disagreeing with. More than one charger? Running a battery to 40% rather than to 20% (Never deplete a pack down to where the BMS cuts out) and then switching batteries. Why? So you have to possibly charge two packs that night rather than just one? Where does "strategy" come into getting maximum range? Charge a pack to 80%, deplete to 20%, switch and repeat... anything else is masturbation. But you did say you like to over-do. If you want more range you have to pedal more as I am sure you know.

My long trips this year were all work trips, not touring trips. With work trips, I have found it easy to confirm in advance what storage and charging opportunities there would be. This is what I meant about 120V availability motel to motel, in your case work site to work site, but they all have a 120V plug or 121V in Canada (just kidding).

Would love to. I've looked at the item on the Grin website many times.... Call Grin themselves or email pics of your connectors and I think they can help.

I live on an island so most trips for me involve one or more ferry trips. I can't speak for anyone else's experience. That's the real benefit of riding a lot in the same areas.

I never said courier it, I said send it. I meant pass it on via a friend of a friend. There's another benefit of living on an Island for ya.

Probably, but I don't think 30 Ah packs are available for any of my e-bikes. This is one of the reasons I bump up against almost every production ebike built, their pint-sized batteries and proprietary motor/electronics. Hanging a 1+ h.p. mid-drive on your perfect bike is better than 95% of production ebikes being sold.

Yes. Very much so, for me. Like I said before, these were work trips not touring (the subject line is "e-bike travel", not "e-bike touring")... "set personal bests whenever possible" kind of person on the bike, I have been for a long time. Glad you seem satisfied doing this... I guess I'd like to be paid to ride my bike. I'm just way different in that I have no desire what-so-ever to bring work into my biking and when younger I always "set my personal bests" in bed rather than on a bike.

"Some people might find the degree of battery management I engaged in would be crazy-making, but I am a strategist at heart and I enjoyed the charge level management challenge!... I'm making it more difficult than it needs to be, and I enjoyed that part of it. - How I keep track of power consumption is tracking starting voltage, ending voltage, and how many Ah. it takes to recharge the pack to it's starting voltage which can be set at whatever % I want. The amount of range I get to the Ah. it takes to recharge is how my mind works. I have 18 Ah. (60% of the pack capacity) to use as I want. That's where the Satiator helps so much.

Class-1-specific biking infrastructure? In America we are getting more and more restricted areas for Class-2 and Class-3 ebikes, mostly Class-3 at this point, as will Canada, hell you guys are way more restricted legally than we are right now. Being able to ride my bike anywhere I want IS the reason to have a bike for me. Has been for over 55 years now. The majority of my mileage is on hard surface roads and trails also but pulling into gravel or single track doesn't do more than just slow me down a little. If you have never ridden through a National Park do it... tie one leg behind your back and slow down enough to remember "the blur". Distance is easy on an ebike, after I showed myself I can ride centuries day after day it loses the thrill and I miss way too much. Another privilege for Class-1 bikes in America is that I can ride anywhere that I feel is most safe, the road surface, shoulders, pedestrian/bike trails, and sidewalks even freeways when it is the only route available, and I get to decide.

Why would I want an electric motorcycle? I want power assist, I want to get exercise as I ride (even if I'm riding very fast). I'm not sure why you introduced that into the conversation. It's seemed to be All about speed, then it's All about distance, now it's All about... exercise. Riding fast on an ebike for 50, 60, 70, miles will definitely give you the exercise, but an electric motorcycle would be far more efficient for work especially on roads, and safer too.

I'm getting the impression that you're more of a stop-and-smell-the-roses type of rider than me. If so, we're different, and that's OK. I'm more a set-up in some interesting spot and do days rides until its time to move the circus to the next base-camp. But your right in that I don't need to race anywhere to prove and/or test anything.

Agreed. Though since I did qualify my statements with the level of experience that I was associating my comments with, I'm not sure of what you're getting at? Just commenting that there is lots to learn.

Ride safe.

 

[Explorer-1]

Great thread. I currently have 3 625Wh batteries for my bike, but I’ve only ever needed to use 2 batteries. The maximum I’ve gotten out of one of my batteries is 75km, but it was slow going at the end and the battery was very dead at the end. My longest single ride was 120km which I did on 2 batteries. My typical ride was about 65km. I often switch packs before the current one is dead as on certain parts of the trip, or going home, I like to have a full battery as it gets me extra speed. I've never carried a charger with me yet.

This year year I might try upgrading one of my batteries to 825Wh, but I’m debating another approach that will put a 1.5-2kWh battery on my rear rack for long trips; I could get probably 150-200km out of that

Carrying 2 extra batteries in my panniers cuts down on cargo space a lot, and makes handling of the bike off road much more difficult on tight rocky and hilly trails.

This year I also have a second bike with a 980Wh battery, which I hope will get me where I need to go and back most often with just the one battery. I do not have a second battery for the bike which is more suited to off road but not mountain trails. I'd like a second battery when the price becomes reasonable. I may adapt a custom battery to it if I have time or find I really need it.

One strategy from this thread I will try to work out is identifying places to charge for maybe a longer trip. I'm usually off the main roads as soon as I can, and don't make stops at businesses unless my trip is grocery shopping. I don't really fancy waiting for a charge when I could be riding. I did just buy a Cycle Satiator for when I need faster charges, but with 3 batteries I’ve never needed one yet. It might be different with the second bike though, which has a larger battery and a pathetic charger. So I’m planning ahead.

I'd love to do a 200km trip this year, or an overnighter.

 

[BBassett]

Great thread. I currently have 3 625Wh batteries for my bike, but I’ve only ever needed to use 2 batteries. The maximum I’ve gotten out of one of my batteries is 75km, but it was slow going at the end and the battery was very dead at the end. My longest single ride was 120km which I did on 2 batteries. My typical ride was about 65km. I often switch packs before the current one is dead as on certain parts of the trip, or going home, I like to have a full battery as it gets me extra speed. I've never carried a charger with me yet.

This year year I might try upgrading one of my batteries to 825Wh, but I’m debating another approach that will put a 1.5-2kWh battery on my rear rack for long trips; I could get probably 150-200km out of that

Carrying 2 extra batteries in my panniers cuts down on cargo space a lot, and makes handling of the bike off road much more difficult on tight rocky and hilly trails.

This year I also have a second bike with a 980Wh battery, which I hope will get me where I need to go and back most often with just the one battery. I do not have a second battery for the bike which is more suited to off road but not mountain trails. I'd like a second battery when the price becomes reasonable. I may adapt a custom battery to it if I have time or find I really need it.

One strategy from this thread I will try to work out is identifying places to charge for maybe a longer trip. I'm usually off the main roads as soon as I can, and don't make stops at businesses unless my trip is grocery shopping. I don't really fancy waiting for a charge when I could be riding. I did just buy a Cycle Satiator for when I need faster charges, but with 3 batteries I’ve never needed one yet. It might be different with the second bike though, which has a larger battery and a pathetic charger. So I’m planning ahead.

I'd love to do a 200km trip this year, or an overnighter.

If you want to make the batteries last don't charge past 80% capacity and don't discharge past 20% capacity. Keep cooking them and you will only get the minimum number if recharge cycles.

 

[Explorer-1]

If you want to make the batteries last don't charge past 80% capacity and don't discharge past 20% capacity. Keep cooking them and you will only get the minimum number if recharge cycles.

Thank's for the warning, but I've been using Lithium batteries for a very long time. I have enough new 18650 cells to probably build a batterypack for an bike from the early days when AW cells were all the rage to the latest from 20700/21700 Panasonic/Sanyo, LG, and Samsoung. I power radios, flashlights, trimmers my air compressor, as well as the standard power tools. Then there are the segways, and EUCs, and scooters. I follow the spec sheets and I'm a very happy user of all the various Lithium Ion chemistries.

Remember dead because it can't run the bike is not "dead".

 

[BBassett]

Thank's for the warning, but I've been using Lithium batteries for a very long time. I have enough new 18650 cells to probably build a batterypack for an bike from the early days when AW cells were all the rage to the latest from 20700/21700 Panasonic/Sanyo, LG, and Samsoung. I power radios, flashlights, trimmers my air compressor, as well as the standard power tools. Then there are the segways, and EUCs, and scooters. I follow the spec sheets and I'm a very happy user of all the various Lithium Ion chemistries.

Remember dead because it can't run the bike is not "dead".

Sure, they still have viable uses when they are basically useless for use in an ebike. Tripling the number of recharge cycles is fairly important to me especially on a pack that carries 30Ah. I'm sure your radio and flashlight don't pull a thousand watts or more... and hoping down to Wal-Mart for a replacement isn't that inconvenient. But even if you are willing to just throw down your plastic for batteries more often than necessary because you stress them continually, is that best for our eco-sphere? Producing lithium batteries is horrible on Momma Earth, isn't it our duty both to her and each other to get the most out of them if we have the great fortune of being able to have access to them in the 1st place? The majority of the planets population don't, and couldn't afford them if they did. Seems like common sense to me. As far as building your own? Vaya con Dios Senior Explorer.

 

[Mass Deduction]

Thanks for taking the time man.

Happy to!

I believe you referenced using several smaller batteries,

I was referring to several batteries yes, but made no size reference. Actually, the bike I did all of my trips on this summer only has batteries in a single size (500 Wh)! So there was no size choice for me. One of the downsides of production e-bikes, I suppose, is less choice.

This is what I was disagreeing with. More than one charger? Running a battery to 40% rather than to 20% (Never deplete a pack down to where the BMS cuts out) and then switching batteries. Why? So you have to possibly charge two packs that night rather than just one? Where does "strategy" come into getting maximum range? Charge a pack to 80%, deplete to 20%, switch and repeat... anything else is masturbation. But you did say you like to over-do. If you want more range you have to pedal more as I am sure you know.

I wasn't talking about charging them up at the end of the day, I was trying to suggest that if you are charging *in the middle of the day* that having two packs equally low (as opposed to one completely depleted and the other only half dead) would be preferable. I take advantage of mid-ride opportunities every single long ride. Up until now there's always been a ferry trip at a minimum. And if it's an epic one-day return trip for work, then I'll also have a charging opportunity at my destination. So strategizing the timing of swapping battery packs so that they're equally low at every charging opportunity is ideal for getting the most out of each charging opportunity.

Would love to. I've looked at the item on the Grin website many times.... Call Grin themselves or email pics of your connectors and I think they can help.

They can't, but they're working on it. They just today announced limited quantities of a Bosch plug for the Satiator. So that's good news. Once they get Shimano and Yamaha plugs too, I might actually stock them in my store.

This is one of the reasons I bump up against almost every production ebike built, their pint-sized batteries and proprietary motor/electronics. Hanging a 1+ h.p. mid-drive on your perfect bike is better than 95% of production ebikes being sold.

I can totally understand this. Yes, if you roll your own you can create some interesting options. They don't inspire me because of the heavy weight these overpowered bikes with huge batteries weigh, whereas my most recent production e-bike weighed only 42.5 pounds, and my next one might weigh only 33 pounds. Advantages each way.

How I keep track of power consumption is tracking starting voltage, ending voltage, and how many Ah. it takes to recharge the pack to it's starting voltage which can be set at whatever % I want. The amount of range I get to the Ah. it takes to recharge is how my mind works. I have 18 Ah. (60% of the pack capacity) to use as I want. That's where the Satiator helps so much.

How much does a Satiator weigh compared to a regular charger? How's the size? Is this something I'm going to be willing to cart around with me on my bike? I like the option to charge faster, I'd definitely be willing to do fast charging during a bike trip to take advantage of brief charging opportunities, but maybe not if it's huge and/or heavy. I'm willing to bring as many chargers as batteries with me because the chargers are relatively small and lightweight.

In America we are getting more and more restricted areas for Class-2 and Class-3 ebikes, mostly Class-3 at this point, as will Canada, hell you guys are way more restricted legally than we are right now. Being able to ride my bike anywhere I want IS the reason to have a bike for me. Has been for over 55 years now. The majority of my mileage is on hard surface roads and trails also but pulling into gravel or single track doesn't do more than just slow me down a little. If you have never ridden through a National Park do it... tie one leg behind your back and slow down enough to remember "the blur". Distance is easy on an ebike, after I showed myself I can ride centuries day after day it loses the thrill and I miss way too much. Another privilege for Class-1 bikes in America is that I can ride anywhere that I feel is most safe, the road surface, shoulders, pedestrian/bike trails, and sidewalks even freeways when it is the only route available, and I get to decide.

I intend to do a slower/super long distance ride as soon as time allows. I actually am switching one of my bikes to the EU max of 25 km/h to reduce the amount of the trip that the motor will kick in for. This will be my first recreational long-distance e-bike trip. But first I need to get a proper day off work.

It's seemed to be All about speed, then it's All about distance, now it's All about... exercise. Riding fast on an ebike for 50, 60, 70, miles will definitely give you the exercise, but an electric motorcycle would be far more efficient for work especially on roads, and safer too.

It's all about all those things. I want to go fast, I want to do a long distance, and I want to get exercise doing it. If not for the desire to get exercise, I might take an inter-city bus instead.

Getting exercise is arguably safer. More people suffer and/or die of chronic disease than do of motor vehicle accidents, and cyclists get distinctly lower rates of chronic disease. So there are different types of safety. So yes, even if I could do a work trip faster by bus or motorcycle I'd still be losing the "double duty" element of the e-bike, which is not only getting me there at a reasonable speed but improving my health too.

And to get an electric motorcycle I'd first need to get a motorcycle licence. I might even need a regular driver's licence too, I'm not sure. I don't possess any kind of driver's licence, so I'd have to find out more.

I'm more a set-up in some interesting spot and do days rides until its time to move the circus to the next base-camp. But your right in that I don't need to race anywhere to prove and/or test anything.

What you've suggested sounds amazing, and I'd probably love it! One of the reasons I've been doing epic e-bike trips for work is that it helps me make time for them. I'm a business owner and taking time off work is very hard for me, unfortunately. But if I have to go somewhere for work anyway, then it becomes an opportunity for an e-bike adventure!

Just commenting that there is lots to learn.

So true, I've been learning a lot reading these forums!

Ride safe.

You too! There are several people from British Columbia on these forums, maybe there's an opportunity for an EBR meet-up/group ride somewhere in BC this summer?

 

[Mass Deduction]

If you want to make the batteries last don't charge past 80% capacity and don't discharge past 20% capacity. Keep cooking them and you will only get the minimum number if recharge cycles.

I observe this meticulously during my day-to-day riding. I also typically wait at least a half an hour after a ride in cold weather to let the battery come up to room temperature before I start charging. I also typically charge with the slowest charger I have available.

But all the rules can go out the window when doing a long bike trip. If you treat the battery right 99% of the time, then I don't feel bad about using it to its fullest when you need all the distance you can get. Or at least that's my philosophy.

 

[BBassett]

Happy to! ...

One of the downsides of production e-bikes, I suppose, is less choice. Less choice all the way around.

I wasn't talking about charging them up at the end of the day, I was trying to suggest that if you are charging *in the middle of the day* that having two packs equally low (as opposed to one completely depleted and the other only half dead) would be preferable. I take advantage of mid-ride opportunities every single long ride. Up until now there's always been a ferry trip at a minimum. - A 30Ah battery will take you further than you will want to ride.

They can't, but they're working on it. They just today announced limited quantities of a Bosch plug for the Satiator. So that's good news. Once they get Shimano and Yamaha plugs too, I might actually stock them in my store. - I would just have the connectors on all the batteries replaced to match.

I can totally understand this. Yes, if you roll your own you can create some interesting options. They don't inspire me because of the heavy weight these overpowered bikes with huge batteries weigh, whereas my most recent production e-bike weighed only 42.5 pounds, and my next one might weigh only 33 pounds. Advantages each way. - Trust me when I say that 42 pounds isn't that heavy in comparison to a fully loaded touring ebike pulling a suspension trailer. But when I get set-up and strip her down to the minimum weight she may not feel anorexic but heavy doesn't fit either.

How much does a Satiator weigh compared to a regular charger? How's the size? Is this something I'm going to be willing to cart around with me on my bike? I like the option to charge faster, I'd definitely be willing to do fast charging during a bike trip to take advantage of brief charging opportunities, but maybe not if it's huge and/or heavy. I'm willing to bring as many chargers as batteries with me because the chargers are relatively small and lightweight. - They are heavy, mostly because of their waterproof construction, can even be mounted on the bike frame if you wanted. They are long and slim in comparison to most chargers I have seen with a removable power cord. It's easy to stow in my pannier but not light.

I intend to do a slower/super long distance ride as soon as time allows. I actually am switching one of my bikes to the EU max of 25 km/h to reduce the amount of the trip that the motor will kick in for. This will be my first recreational long-distance e-bike trip. But first I need to get a proper day off work. - Reducing the assist just makes it more strenuous on you physically obviously and as you point out slow the ride down to a crawl to achieve "long-distance". Think about all the advantages of one or two large packs and how that would let you do the things you want ("It's all about all those things. I want to go fast, I want to do a long-distance, and I want to get exercise doing it.") on your bike. Get a proper 2-weeks off and relax my friend.

Getting exercise is arguably safer. More people suffer and/or die of chronic disease than do of motor vehicle accidents, and cyclists get distinctly lower rates of chronic disease. So there are different types of safety. - I agree with you but am also very good at arguing benefits vs the risks involved in riding an ebike in traffic. I'm also personally aware of those risks so you can see in the pic below.

And to get an electric motorcycle I'd first need to get a motorcycle licence. I might even need a regular driver's licence too, I'm not sure. I don't possess any kind of driver's licence, so I'd have to find out more. - And even insurance probably, hence the magic of a Class-1 ebike. No requirements and can ride anywhere bikes are allowed, what's made bikes great from their beginning.

I'm a business owner and taking time off work is very hard for me, unfortunately. But if I have to go somewhere for work anyway, then it becomes an opportunity for an e-bike adventure! - Making the best of the situation... a man after my own heart.

So true, I've been learning a lot reading these forums! - It's better than youtube and places that are trying to sell items.

You too! There are several people from British Columbia on these forums, maybe there's an opportunity for an EBR meet-up/group ride somewhere in BC this summer? LOL! I'd love it but I believe a 1000W mid-drive isn't legal in Canada 'eh.

A pleasure talking with you,

Ride safe.

 

[BBassett]

I observe this meticulously during my day-to-day riding. I also typically wait at least a half an hour after a ride in cold weather to let the battery come up to room temperature before I start charging. I also typically charge with the slowest charger I have available.

But all the rules can go out the window when doing a long bike trip. If you treat the battery right 99% of the time, then I don't feel bad about using it to its fullest when you need all the distance you can get. Or at least that's my philosophy.

When I want to ride up to 90 miles and not carry another battery, my solar panel or the Satiator I will charge to 99% of the packs capacity also. What I try to do is ride very conservatively when fully charge, power level 1 or 2 out of 9 because of the difference in performance. I look down and find myself at 20 mph with little exsertion if I don't think about conservation. I thought the same thing about charging slowly and found out that my packs can take the Satiatiors 8A charging ability with no stress on them at all, an advantage of quality packs I guess.

 

[steve mercier]

That means bringing the bike into the hotel room, and hotels not allowing that would obviously be a problem. Geez, so many considerations when choosing my next ebike. Sounds like I might end up having multiple ebikes.
[/QUOTE]
We rode to Harrison Hot Springs and loaded our ebikes into our room via the hotel lobby elevator right in front of the desk clerk who did not bat an eye. I did not check with them in advance ,but I figured if they said no then they lose the business and the next place down the block will say yes.

 

[Mass Deduction]

A 30Ah battery will take you further than you will want to ride.

Probably true, and if I knew a way to hook one up to my e-bike I'd strongly consider trying one out. Until recently I'd been using a Brose motor, and right now I'm using an Shimano E8000 motor. I'm content with multiple batteries if they're small and lightweight enough, though.

I would just have the connectors on all the batteries replaced to match.

I haven't the foggiest notion how I would do that, and I'm sure it would void my warranty in any case!

Trust me when I say that 42 pounds isn't that heavy in comparison to a fully loaded touring ebike pulling a suspension trailer. But when I get set-up and strip her down to the minimum weight she may not feel anorexic but heavy doesn't fit either.

In my old school touring days it was common to carry 40-50 pounds of extra stuff with me, but I was camping in the bush. I'd love to do more of that.

Realistically, most of my trips will be shorter and more targeted so lighter weight e-bikes are of significant value to me. I have my eye on a BMC Alpenchallenge AMP Cross LTD right now. The good news is that despite having a 504 Wh battery and an E8000 motor, it only weight 15.1 kilos (about 33 pounds). Carbon frame, an elastomer section in the rear triangle to dampen vibration, and an XT Di2 electronic drivetrain! The bad news is it costs about $8K Canadian ($6K USD). So it remains something I'm thinking about, not something I've pulled the trigger on.

They are heavy, mostly because of their waterproof construction, can even be mounted on the bike frame if you wanted. They are long and slim in comparison to most chargers I have seen with a removable power cord. It's easy to stow in my pannier but not light.

Hmmm... that suggests using the Satiator as a charger during a bike trip may be less appealing.

Reducing the assist just makes it more strenuous on you physically obviously and as you point out slow the ride down to a crawl to achieve "long-distance". Think about all the advantages of one or two large packs and how that would let you do the things you want

Again, since I'm using official packs I'm restricted to 504 Wh/14 Ah, or whatever size they're willing to sell me. But the smaller/cheaper the pack the easier it is to carry multiple packs, so it kind of evens out. That said, I will continue to always purchase the biggest official packs available for each bike I ride to reduce the number of packs I need for any given ride.

Two weeks off? I wish, I haven't had that in.... I can't remember how long. Early 2000s I guess, so coming up on 20 years since I had something like that. I aspire to do better, though. I'll start with trying to get two days off first and see if I manage that!

Back to my point. The slower I'm going the lower the level of resistance (especially wind resistance). One GCN test found that wind resistance quadrupled between 35 and 45 km/h, for example. So I plan to set up low assist to a maximum of 25 km/h and medium assist to a maximum of 32 km/h, and also tweak the max torque and assist percentage for each mode to set the bike up for super long-distance riding. And yes, to strategically push hard enough to ride past the cut-out when it makes sense (such as on the flats when not facing a bad headwind). I'm curious to see how far I can go in a day with an early start, moderate effort, and extreme strategy.

I agree with you but am also very good at arguing benefits vs the risks involved in riding an ebike in traffic. I'm also personally aware of those risks so you can see in the pic below.

Was I supposed to see a pic? I didn't see a pic.

And even insurance probably, hence the magic of a Class-1 ebike. No requirements and can ride anywhere bikes are allowed, what's made bikes great from their beginning.

I don't think most jurisdictions require insurance for class 3 e-bikes either, though.

It's better than youtube and places that are trying to sell items.

Totally!

LOL! I'd love it but I believe a 1000W mid-drive isn't legal in Canada 'eh.

True. Even 750W bikes aren't legal here. 500W is Transport Canada's legal limit. I do hope that Canada will harmonize its regulations with the U.S. in the near future, establishing the 3-class system at a minimum, if not also allowing 750W bikes. That said, I'm not sure how they would know/enforce the rules if you were just doing a short jaunt across the border? When I travelled from Canada to U.S. as a part of a 3-person e-bike group, they certainly didn't grill us on how powerful our motors were! Perhaps if you ended up in an at-fault motor vehicle accident, it might become important.

A pleasure talking with you,

Likewise!

 

[Mass Deduction]

When I want to ride up to 90 miles and not carry another battery, my solar panel or the Satiator I will charge to 99% of the packs capacity also. What I try to do is ride very conservatively when fully charge, power level 1 or 2 out of 9 because of the difference in performance. I look down and find myself at 20 mph with little exsertion if I don't think about conservation. I thought the same thing about charging slowly and found out that my packs can take the Satiatiors 8A charging ability with no stress on them at all, an advantage of quality packs I guess.

Fast charging is an advantage of a larger pack, moreso than a quality pack, from what I understand. A very high quality pack that's too small wouldn't withstand faster charging as well as a very large pack of medium quality, I believe.

 

[BBassett]

Totally!

haha, errrr, sorry, old brain, forgot the pic. I hit the ground like a ripe avocado. Just lucky that I wasn't moving fast when the Dodge Durango punted me.

 

[BBassett]

Fast charging is an advantage of a larger pack, moreso than a quality pack, from what I understand. A very high quality pack that's too small wouldn't withstand faster charging as well as a very large pack of medium quality, I believe.

I think that is true. A large group of cells can accept as higher amperage charge more easily and with less stress than a single cell. With lithium ebike packs it's probably safer to think of them as having quality, or not having quality... a binary state rather than high, medium, low and Aliexpress quality.

 

[BBassett]

That means bringing the bike into the hotel room...

That's what I do when I am out of food, need to do laundry in a machine, need to recharge every electronic item I have, need a mirror to trim my nose hair (wind resistance is a bitch), want a long hot shower, and need to clean the bike and gear. If I can't accomplish these things and safeguard my bike I stay somewhere else that wants my money. I use military installations whenever I can and they are spread all over America.

 

[steve mercier]

haha, errrr, sorry, old brain, forgot the pic. I hit the ground like a ripe avocado. Just lucky that I wasn't moving fast when the Dodge Durango punted me.

OUCH again

 

[BBassett]

OUCH again

That's nothing... I landed on my right shoulder and after 5 months now it still clicks and pops like a card in the spokes when I... ah, scratch my head. If you are too young to know what that means Google it, the card in the spoke not the simile.

 

[steve mercier]

That's nothing... I landed on my right shoulder and after 5 months now it still clicks and pops like a card in the spokes when I... ah, scratch my head. If you are too young to know what that means Google it, the card in the spoke not the simile.

I know the reference...my knee clicks like that ever since the Ebike went sideways on black ice last winter, so welcome to the club. (-:

 

[Mass Deduction]

I have a Garmin Fenix and use it all the time so I'm in Garmin Connect on an almost daily basis and I had no idea you could use it to plan a route? Seems like it's common knowledge to those in this thread. How does one do it?

Mass, they let you do the Tour de Victoria on an electric bike? I thought most Fondos didn't allow electric bikes? Then again, what are they going to do to stop you?

Retirement is coming for me, hopefully in a half dozen years or so. I plan on doing some bike trips and by that point hopefully will have something like a Specialized Creo. Reading this thread has made me realize that having an internal battery that isn't easily removed could be a problem. I believe the only way to remove the internal battery on a Creo is by removing the motor, which might be fine once in a while but I can't see that being practical for charging the battery.

That means bringing the bike into the hotel room, and hotels not allowing that would obviously be a problem. Geez, so many considerations when choosing my next ebike. Sounds like I might end up having multiple ebikes.

I somehow missed replying to this post.

Yes, the Tour de Victoria explicitly allows e-bikes! It's not a grey area, they specifically take the time to note that they're allowed. Very progressive for a gran fondo, IMO.

I did the Tour de Victoria on an e-bike last year, and I'll probably do it again this year. Out of thousands of participants, I only happened to notice one other e-bike, so I don't think it's common to participate with an e-bike yet. That may be in part because not many people know you can? There are certainly no shortages of e-bikes in this city, we're one bike shop out of about 30 in this community and we sell hundreds of e-bikes a year just by ourself.