The ultimate Commuter - a tale of 2 very different bikes

[Colorado_rider]

Hello all,
Long time lurker 1st time poster. Your input would be greatly appreciated. I am looking to get a car replacing full-time commuter.
A little about myself. I am 6 foot 2, in my early 30s, have raced road and mountain bikes on and off since I was a teenager, and have worked at bike shops in the past.
I am looking to get my 1st ebike to add to my every growing fleet of bicycles. I plan to use it to commute to and from work as well as anywhere else around town.
My commute is moderately hilly and about 6 miles each way.
So to my quandry... I currently commute on a cyclocross bike with a flat bar, and I ride it like a teenager. (Wheeling off curbs, jumping over things)
I would like to get an ebike with an aggressive cross country mountain bike geometry that is fully rigid.
Until this morning I had my heart set on this.

Allant+ 9.9S - Trek Bikes

Discover your next great ride with Allant+ 9.9S. See the bike and visit your local Trek retailer. Shop now!

www.trekbikes.com

It's sexy, it's sleek, it's cool

Pros: made by Trek, solid warranty
New Bosche performance speed motor in conjunction with a 625wh battery. Likely good range even if I ride in turbo all the time (which I will).
New super cool smartphone hub
Integrated battery, integrated lights, Integrated everything.
Full carbon frame/fork. Should make for a decent ride of smooth roads
Trek store agreed to swap out 500 lumen Bontrager light for Supernova M99 1100 lumen

Cons:
Price, but the other bike Im considering costs the same.
The rear light is a single LED (seriously why did they even bother...)
There are more powerful motors out there.... (which leads me to my next bike)

Until this morning I had my pre-order in at the Trek store and have been patiently awaiting the arrival of my Allant, but then I found this.
https://wattwagons.com/products/ultimate_commuter_pro

And then my world was turned upside down!
Pros: that 750 watt motor, that can be jail broken of course. I suspect this bike hauls ass.
Belt drive - thats cool
ti frame - should make for a smooth ride
cool brake light

Cons: If the trek is sleek and streamlined then this is the opposite. It's Christmas treed.
External battery
Cables and wires everywhere
Fenders do not look like they will protect from spray like the trek
Questionable range, certainly less than the trek, right...?
6 output for light means that only low power lights will work


I got on the phone with the owner of Watt Wagon today and he was extremely helpful. I asked him about making some mods to the bike, which he was very much obliging.
I would ditch the suspension fork for a fully rigid 9er like this https://bikepacking.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Niner-BOOST-RDO-MTB-Fork-Review_23.jpg
I would get rid of the suspension seatpost and replace with a Thompson.
And I would change out the Startrek style handlebar for a flat mountain bike bar.

So it is now that I turn to the collective knowledge of the interwebs and ask you oh great ebike connoisseurs, which one should I choose?
-The safe and very refined build from a very well established brand (Trek)
or
-The intriguing and slightly bonkers custom built titanium missile from a very cool guy in Massachusetts who is going to help me build the bike from the ground up.

 

[PDoz]

Massive pro - that wattwagon has a rohloff hub! I can't believe that's mentioned halfway down the feature list - below cons like the suntour fork...

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Until this morning I had my pre-order in at the Trek store and have been patiently awaiting the arrival of my Allant, but then I found this.
https://wattwagons.com/products/ultimate_commuter_pro

You may want to read these two threads and you may gain some useful information.

Watt Wagons Ultimate Commuter Pro

Has anyone ever heard of this company or bike? This looks exactly like what I've been looking for. https://wattwagons.com/products/ultimate_commuter_pro

electricbikereview.com

Wattwagon E-bike World Record event in Halifax (Aug 3rd) + World's top battery scientist talks about batteries

Our team had a wonderful time over the past weekend in Halifax. Our main goal was to highlight the technology and efficiency of E-bikes through an unique event. Electrek just published this article yesterday and our friend Sean posted the video from the event...

electricbikereview.com

Coming back,

Here is some info from someone who was deeply involved in the design process of Wattwagon Ultimate Commuter Pro.

Trek:

Allant-9S is a fantastic bike. Light, sleek and solid componentry and backed by a wonderful company. the fact that you can add an extra 500whr makes it even more appealing. Cool features like the smartphone hub, Kiox display are awesome. Overall, it is fine commuting machine.

Wattwagon

This bike was not built to look cool or sleek. It was designed as a pure performance machine.
For someone in Colorado, this will also be a very low maintenance bike with the gates drive.

There are some factual errors in your analysis:

The light is not run at 6V, rather it is one of the most powerful lights for E-bikes. 1800 lumens output.
Check this out: https://www.lightandmotion.com/shop/bike-lights/lights-for-e-bikes/seda-1800-e-bike
On par with M99 Pro (not the M99 mini pro).

as @PDoz mentioned, Rohloff hub itself costs over $1500 and is extremely durable in all conditions. It may outlast many other components on the bike.

It comes standard with Brooks Imperial saddle, which is the gold standard for long distance trekking or Touring.

The battery is 880 whrs, almost 260whr more than the Trek. Even with the power hungry Bafang ultra motor, you can expect 60 miles of range at 20mph avg speed.
Trek's Bosch is lot more conservative in terms of power output but it is smoother than the Ultra.
Bafang ultra can easily maintain 25+mph top speed all day long. When we attempted the record for 24 hours, I was pushing the bike at 25+ mph for almost 16 hours continuously and it DID NOT heatup whatsoever and that says something.

Finally, it comes with the most advanced charger. Vastly more advanced than the Bosch charger.

Amazon.com

Charger itself goes for $300 and will charge the battery to 80% in 2 hours flat. This will also prolong the life of the battery.

 

[Colorado_rider]

There are some factual errors in your analysis:

The light is not run at 6V, rather it is one of the most powerful lights for E-bikes. 1800 lumens output.
Check this out: https://www.lightandmotion.com/shop/bike-lights/lights-for-e-bikes/seda-1800-e-bike
On par with M99 Pro (not the M99 mini pro).

Thank you for your input. I agree with everything you’ve listed but you are the one mistaken with regards to lighting as the Bafang In fact has a 6V lighting output as per the lengthy discussion I had with Pushkar regarding this issue. This greatly limits the lights that can be used. One thing that I would like on an ebike would be a high quality German made light such as a Supernova or a Lupine. I have experience with Seca and their quality is not in the same league as the German made lights. Also he is no longer using the Seca for quality reasons. No surprise as a 125$ light that puts out 1800 lumens seems a little too good to be true.

 

[Weaselander]

Keep us posted about what you end up choosing. I am looking to make a very similar decision between the Commuter Pro and Allant+ 8s. Coming from a Domane and a hardtail 29er, getting the Commuter Pro setup with a more aggressive riding position is something I would be interested in learning more about.

 

[AHicks]

I'm left wondering one thing. With your skill set, why don't you build your own? Spec everything out exactly as you want it, then build it with the kind of workmanship only somebody that enjoys such things is able to muster up....

Cables could be tidied up on the front of the Wattwagon in just a few minutes....

Personally, I think a CF frame could be more trouble than it's worth.

 

[Johnny]

Keep us posted about what you end up choosing. I am looking to make a very similar decision between the Commuter Pro and Allant+ 8s. Coming from a Domane and a hardtail 29er, getting the Commuter Pro setup with a more aggressive riding position is something I would be interested in learning more about.

On paper commuter pro is twice the bicycle allant+ is (ti frame, rohloff with carbon belt, high end fork (it may be suntour but it is one of their high end ones), higher capacity battery, powerful motor, brooks saddle , $250 seatpost suspension etc.).

My only concern would be durability of Bafang Ultra but Ravi stated that it is durable. In terms of integration it could have been better but it is not that bad. Also Allant9+ seems too heavy for a carbon frame , a misprint maybe ?

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

In fact has a 6V lighting output as per the lengthy discussion I had with Pushkar regarding this issue.

You are right, Bafang only has 6V output and hence @pushkar purchased a step-down converter from Grin and wired the SECA 1800 directly to the battery.
Moving forward, if he is not using that light, it is a shame. A powerful light is a must-have for E-bike commute.

Also he is no longer using the Seca for quality reasons.

Not because of quality reasons but the issue of extra wiring that goes into converting the 52V battery voltage to 12V to the SECA.
Actually, I was the one who insisted on using this light and that is how it got spec'ed in the first place.
This adds extra labor and material cost.

DC-DC Converters - Retired - Product Info

In the past we manufactured a range of ultra compact DC-DC buck converters that would step down the high voltage of an ebike battery pack into lower voltage for powering accessories. These provided power for 6V or 12V devices as well as 5V USB chargers. We stopped manufacturing them in 2020 so...

www.ebikes.ca

The light is fantastic. To be honest, I am a big fan of Supernova lights but a decent light that doesn't have batteries should not $500.

 

[linklemming]

I dont use my ebikes as a car replacement but ride them about 30 miles a day (for fun, not commute as I work from home).

I dont mean to take anything away from your two bike choices. They are both fine bikes I have been researching myself and you would likely be happy with either. I would like a cheaper version of the wattwagon personally. Although its specced nice for its intended purpose, most of those parts I just dont want. I would consider a frameset+motor_electronics that would work with a standard chain and derailler.

You might want to consider having more than one ebike. I started with one(Bulls Evo 3 hardtail MTB) then discovered I didnt have an ebike if I needed to take it in for something. I typically do all my own service and have built my own bikes from the frameset since 2000 or so. Ebikes might need service you cant do or just take longer to get parts for.

Something to consider.
Buy a fast hub drive commuter ebike with a big battery like like the Juiced CCX. I live north of you in Louisville and the CCX works fine for anything onroad and most gravel rides. Hub drives are usually cheaper. Personally Im a mid-drive fan but acknowledge hub drives for what they are and love my CCX and much prefer using a torque sensor as opposed to just cadence sensing used for many lower end hub drives.

Wait for end of year/old model sales. There have been some AMAZING deals on speed pedelec bikes like the Raleigh Redux, Lore and several Haibikes. I got an iZIP Moda E3 in March for $2250 (original price was about $3500).

Let us know what you eventually decide and definately give ride reports on your new bike(s)

 

[JMac]

Hello all,
Long time lurker 1st time poster. Your input would be greatly appreciated. I am looking to get a car replacing full-time commuter.
A little about myself. I am 6 foot 2, in my early 30s, have raced road and mountain bikes on and off since I was a teenager, and have worked at bike shops in the past.
I am looking to get my 1st ebike to add to my every growing fleet of bicycles. I plan to use it to commute to and from work as well as anywhere else around town.
My commute is moderately hilly and about 6 miles each way.
So to my quandry... I currently commute on a cyclocross bike with a flat bar, and I ride it like a teenager. (Wheeling off curbs, jumping over things)
I would like to get an ebike with an aggressive cross country mountain bike geometry that is fully rigid.
Until this morning I had my heart set on this.

Allant+ 9.9S - Trek Bikes

Discover your next great ride with Allant+ 9.9S. See the bike and visit your local Trek retailer. Shop now!

www.trekbikes.com

It's sexy, it's sleek, it's cool

Pros: made by Trek, solid warranty
New Bosche performance speed motor in conjunction with a 625wh battery. Likely good range even if I ride in turbo all the time (which I will).
New super cool smartphone hub
Integrated battery, integrated lights, Integrated everything.
Full carbon frame/fork. Should make for a decent ride of smooth roads
Trek store agreed to swap out 500 lumen Bontrager light for Supernova M99 1100 lumen

Cons:
Price, but the other bike Im considering costs the same.
The rear light is a single LED (seriously why did they even bother...)
There are more powerful motors out there.... (which leads me to my next bike)

Until this morning I had my pre-order in at the Trek store and have been patiently awaiting the arrival of my Allant, but then I found this.
https://wattwagons.com/products/ultimate_commuter_pro
View attachment 40245

And then my world was turned upside down!
Pros: that 750 watt motor, that can be jail broken of course. I suspect this bike hauls ass.
Belt drive - thats cool
ti frame - should make for a smooth ride
cool brake light

Cons: If the trek is sleek and streamlined then this is the opposite. It's Christmas treed.
External battery
Cables and wires everywhere
Fenders do not look like they will protect from spray like the trek
Questionable range, certainly less than the trek, right...?
6 output for light means that only low power lights will work


I got on the phone with the owner of Watt Wagon today and he was extremely helpful. I asked him about making some mods to the bike, which he was very much obliging.
I would ditch the suspension fork for a fully rigid 9er like this https://bikepacking.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Niner-BOOST-RDO-MTB-Fork-Review_23.jpg
I would get rid of the suspension seatpost and replace with a Thompson.
And I would change out the Startrek style handlebar for a flat mountain bike bar.

So it is now that I turn to the collective knowledge of the interwebs and ask you oh great ebike connoisseurs, which one should I choose?
-The safe and very refined build from a very well established brand (Trek)
or
-The intriguing and slightly bonkers custom built titanium missile from a very cool guy in Massachusetts who is going to help me build the bike from the ground up.

i too ride a CX bike to and from work. Its SS with big ol cetma rack and i love it. I have bought a ebike, Which sits in the garage as i recover from rotator cuff surgery..but anyway. When i began looking at bikes i really didnt like the geometry numbers i was seeing b/c they were so slack. I also didnt like the bars were mostly only adjustable upward so not only wold i be behind the crank set id be forced into a sit up and beg riding position.

When i bought my izip dash 3 i had to replace things in order to create a favorable riding position but it looks like with the trek you would need to do anything. Looking @ the trek and the watt wagon im gonna go out on a limb and say that the geometry of the trek seems more favorable then the war wagon.

 

[Rob NJ]

Have two SuperCommuters (mine and my wife's) for the last few years and love them. Tried other brands on Backroads and VBT tours, but really love the sold feel of the big tires. No issues with them. While they are urban bikes, we use them like touring bikes. Took 5 day ride from NJ to Vermont when I first bought the bike. Only one battery, but I did 50 to 70 miles a day. We tend towards 20 to 40 miles rides and these are great for that type of riding. Just pop a pannier on one of the bikes to hold locks, jackets, hats - anything we need for the day. Also use them for grocery shopping sometimes. We would rather spend the money on bikes rather than doctors. We see them as an investment for our health.

 

[Rob NJ]

Oh, and forgot to mention. One of the SuperCommuters was stolen a few weeks ago off our car in Boston. New Allant 9.9S on order with expected delivery of 11/25 - so that was my choice. While the other bike looks like a beast on paper, I will continue to choose top manufacturers of these bikes. While a small company can likely put together an interesting bike, the relative newness of the various technologies speaks to good manufacturers that can stand behind their products.

 

[FlatSix911]

Hands down... the Watt Wagon Ultimate Commuter Pro is the way to go!

​

What makes the Ultimate Commuter Pro Special​

frame

The Ultimate Commuter Pro has a strong titanium frame, custom built for up to a 300lb rider!
The frame performs flawlessly in varying terrain, providing a great riding experience. The inherent flexibility and high tensile strength of Titanium allows the energy stresses of regular use to be effectively dissipated without degradation of the material, ensuring Titanium frames stay stronger for longer.

front suspension

The Suntour Auron boost suspension adds a significant level of comfort to your ride. Floating on a magic carpet is the feeling we’re aiming for !
The Auron is part of the Suntour WERX series. It is configured at 130mm of travel with flexibility to go up to a ultra cushy 160mm of travel. This is an air-sprung fork, with super stable 35mm black stanchions.

saddle

The Brooks B-17 Imperial is an excellent saddle designed for long term anatomic comfort. The saddle features the central cut-out, first designed by BROOKS over 100 years ago. Leather provides natural "give" by stretching and flexing, and because it doesn't need padding, it's a cool option in warm weather. The B-17 Imperial will break in over the first 100-150 miles of riding - getting more comfortable, the longer you ride.

seatpost

The Kinekt Active Suspension Seatpost provides a plush, comfortable riding experience. KINEKT effectively isolates your body from surface vibrations and impacts. This isolation improves comfort, control, and confidence, which leads to a more enjoyable ride. All posts come with two extra springs so you can mix and match, creating a personalized experience.

tires

Wide, Comfortable, and Safe! The 27.5 x 2.4 Schwalbe Supermoto-X with Black-Reflex and Greenguard is standard equipment on the Ultimate Commuter Pro. The 3mm Green Guard puncture protection and reinforced sidewalls lets you reach your destination safely, even in the toughest conditions. The Black-Reflex keeps you super visible to cars while riding in the dark. Whether you're travelling on tarmac or trail, the beefy Super Moto-X offers you the best riding characteristics and plenty of comfort.

front wheel

We can't give you a warm blanket on a cold night, but we can give you a touring rim that won't leave you stranded. The front wheel has a tubeless ready Velocity Cliffhanger rim. A generous internal rim width allows more tire contact with the road which supports you and your gear more safely and comfortably than conventional narrow rims. We have paired this with an excellent Hope Pro 4 hub. The Hope Pro is a beautifully crafted CNC'd 32H boost hub, with increased flange diameter to give you better wheel stiffness. This combination makes for a very strong touring-rated wheel, significantly increasing the life of the wheel, and reducing wheel maintenance.

rear wheel

The rear wheel features the a 36H variant of the same rim paired with the gold standard of internal gear hubs- the gorgeous Rohloff Speedhub.
Gear shifting is completed via an easy-to-use twist shifter. As the chain does not have to move between sprockets, shifting works out to be quicker and more consistent than a regular drivetrain. Rohloff hubs have a bigger shell, resulting in shorter spokes and therefore a stronger wheel for any given wheel size. The rear wheel is designed to carry the bulk of the rider and pannier weight without any issues!

drive train

The beautiful Carbon Gates Drive completes the drive train. We have a 55T front chainring, and an expedition rated 19T rear cog. Belts require little to no drivetrain maintenance and don’t need to be lubricated. The belt drive is essentially impervious to road grime and weather, and will not rust if you leave them in the rain. The Carbon Gates Drive gives us a smooth, near silent, maintenance free ride. You can expect the belts to last 5000+ miles between replacements.

motor

The Bafang Ultra is an awesome torque sensing motor powering the Ultimate Commuter Pro. It has been factory tuned to 750W, providing upto 160Nm of torque and the most powerful bike path legal ebike in the US. We have worked with Bafang to tweak the motor and performance, making it a really fun ebike to ride.

battery

We have an amazing 52V / 880Wh battery from EM3EV powering the Ultimate Commuter Pro. EM3EV is known for providing excellent quality batteries that will last you for thousands of charging cycles with proper battery care. They use top quality cells, and the battery pack is extremely weather-proof. The pack also comes with a lock/key to secure your battery both on and off the frame. You can do over 70 miles of riding on at level 1 pedal assist, and 45-50 miles with a level 3 pedal assist.

supercharger

The grin satiator is a supercharger you want to use for your ebikes. This programmable charger can fill up the 880Wh battery in 2 hours flat! The charger comes with 3 built in profiles and a programming cable. You never have to wait to have fun.

pedals

Crank Brothers Stamp 2 pedals are built for commuters.
Whether you use sneakers, vans, boot, or oxfords, you will always feel confident about the grip and support. No more scuffing or slipping.

handlebar

We chose a gentle sloping loop bar in the Origin8 Strongbow.
The strongbow provides ample real-estate for all your peripherals, while providing a great riding position. An excellent handlebar for commuters.

brakes

Maximum braking performance for any road conditions. The MT5e has an integrated switch for motor and brake light.
The high braking force of 4 pistons and its fine modulation make the MT5e a sure-footed companion. We have paired these with the 180mm rotors both front and back.

grips

Ergon GP1 has set the standard for commuting grips.
Excellent all weather performance, excellent palm support, and an even better vibration protection. This is a dream grip for commuters.

lights

The Light and Motion Seca 1800 with 1800 lumens is the most powerful ebike light available today. The Seca works as a DRL - daytime running light - controlled and connected directly from the battery. It is always on when you are riding, ensuring you are always visible to oncoming traffic. You can select from 3 light modes - flashing, low beam, and a high beam. Light and Motion Tuck is the rear light on the bike. It works not only as a traditional tail light, but is also wired to work with the brakes!

 

[Over50]

Hands down... the Watt Wagon Ultimate Commuter Pro is the way to go!

I don't think you can reasonably claim it is a hands down advantage to the WW UCP and base that conclusion on the marketing photos/specs you posted. The OP opened by stating that, were to purchase the UCP, he would replace the front suspension, the suspension seatpost and the handlebar. And furthermore, he listed the external battery and non-internally routed wiring as cons. And also your post fails to mention a strong Trek dealer network and an OEM that has been around and will likely be around for the foreseeable future (I hope WW is too). The UCP looks great, I just don't think, given the original comments that started the thread, that anyone can claim one bike or the other is a clear winner/better value. Seems there are clear pros/cons to each and what determines a hands down winner will be based on rider's use-case and preferences.

 

[Johnny]

I don't think you can reasonably claim it is a hands down advantage to the WW UCP and base that conclusion on the marketing photos/specs you posted. The OP opened by stating that, were to purchase the UCP, he would replace the front suspension, the suspension seatpost and the handlebar. And furthermore, he listed the external battery and non-internally routed wiring as cons. And also your post fails to mention a strong Trek dealer network and an OEM that has been around and will likely be around for the foreseeable future (I hope WW is too). The UCP looks great, I just don't think, given the original comments that started the thread, that anyone can claim one bike or the other is a clear winner/better value. Seems there are clear pros/cons to each and what determines a hands down winner will be based on rider's use-case and preferences.

Although I agree up to a point that dealer network is a plus does it justify paying 2k+ more for a similar bicycle? Or can it make up for having no suspension and dealing with derailleur instead of the almost maintenance free Rohloff?

 

[FlatSix911]

Although I agree up to a point that dealer network is a plus does it justify paying 2k+ more for a similar bicycle?
Or can it make up for having no suspension and dealing with derailleur instead of the almost maintenance-free Rohloff?

This is the correct answer...

 

[Over50]

Although I agree up to a point that dealer network is a plus does it justify paying 2k+ more for a similar bicycle? Or can it make up for having no suspension and dealing with derailleur instead of the almost maintenance free Rohloff?

There is a $2K price difference? And similar bicycle? The MSRP on the 9.9s is $6K and on the WW UCP is $6.5K? Or am I missing something? The OP was asking of analytical comparison and opinion of just these two bikes unless I misread. As for suspension, the OP said he would replace the suspension fork with a rigid fork so rider preference appears to be for less suspension. Maybe selling the WW with a rigid fork drops the UCP price under the 9.9s? As for the Rohloff: I have both on my commuters. I like both. I get better battery range and more responsive feedback from the traditional drivetrain. But I don't like having to frequently clean drivetrains. The Rohloff is heavier but supposedly bombproof. The rider is in Colorado so maybe hilly terrain is a key factor and the Rohloff's gear range is a plus. The 12 speed of the 9.9s is going to have a pretty nice gear range but not sure what it is. The Rohloff could be a good choice for high-mileage riders relying on it as the primary commuter. A lot of people, particularly for road bikes and commuters still prefer the traditional drivetrain. Again, I like both. The traditional gives me better battery range but then that could be a bike difference moreso than a drivetrain/hub difference. As I mentioned, there are pros and cons. I still don't see a hands down better choice easy winner.

 

[dblhelix]

There is a $2K price difference? And similar bicycle? The MSRP on the 9.9s is $6K and on the WW UCP is $6.5K? Or am I missing something? The OP was asking of analytical comparison and opinion of just these two bikes unless I misread. As for suspension, the OP said he would replace the suspension fork with a rigid fork so rider preference appears to be for less suspension. Maybe selling the WW with a rigid fork drops the UCP price under the 9.9s? As for the Rohloff: I have both on my commuters. I like both. I get better battery range and more responsive feedback from the traditional drivetrain. But I don't like having to frequently clean drivetrains. The Rohloff is heavier but supposedly bombproof. The rider is in Colorado so maybe hilly terrain is a key factor and the Rohloff's gear range is a plus. The 12 speed of the 9.9s is going to have a pretty nice gear range but not sure what it is. The Rohloff could be a good choice for high-mileage riders relying on it as the primary commuter. A lot of people, particularly for road bikes and commuters still prefer the traditional drivetrain. Again, I like both. The traditional gives me better battery range but then that could be a bike difference moreso than a drivetrain/hub difference. As I mentioned, there are pros and cons. I still don't see a hands down better choice easy winner.

For the record, the OP ordered the Trek a while ago (showed up in another thread). And the zillions of images in this one make it hard to load.

 

[Johnny]

There is a $2K price difference? And similar bicycle? The MSRP on the 9.9s is $6K and on the WW UCP is $6.5K? Or am I missing something? The OP was asking of analytical comparison and opinion of just these two bikes unless I misread. As for suspension, the OP said he would replace the suspension fork with a rigid fork so rider preference appears to be for less suspension. Maybe selling the WW with a rigid fork drops the UCP price under the 9.9s? As for the Rohloff: I have both on my commuters. I like both. I get better battery range and more responsive feedback from the traditional drivetrain. But I don't like having to frequently clean drivetrains. The Rohloff is heavier but supposedly bombproof. The rider is in Colorado so maybe hilly terrain is a key factor and the Rohloff's gear range is a plus. The 12 speed of the 9.9s is going to have a pretty nice gear range but not sure what it is. The Rohloff could be a good choice for high-mileage riders relying on it as the primary commuter. A lot of people, particularly for road bikes and commuters still prefer the traditional drivetrain. Again, I like both. The traditional gives me better battery range but then that could be a bike difference moreso than a drivetrain/hub difference. As I mentioned, there are pros and cons. I still don't see a hands down better choice easy winner.

I didn't word that question right sorry about that. For the price comparison, I had the previous version "Super commuter" in mind and it was easily 2K+ (if you look for sales you can see bicycles with the same bosch system + a nice front suspension fork for less than 3k) compared to its competition.

Let me reword my question. Does dealer network make up for the lack of many expensive and important components like rohloff, suspension etc. or paying a significant premium(like %50-%80) (when you compare two similarly equipped models not ww with allant9)?

If I commute in snow then I would prefer Rohloff easily(and I am saying this after commuting a whole winter on the east coast every day). Before getting my ebike I had a no-suspension gravel like bike in mind but after many miles on my ebike I realized that when you have the assist, suspension is simply the way to go. The versatility suspension brings is amazing and the bike still feels great to ride even on eco. I think one reason why OP wants a rigid bike is because he projects his experience with his other non-ebikes.

I don't think weight is an issue here if the stated weight of 55lbs is true for Allant9(I still find it hard to believe for a carbon frame with no suspension). Also I don't believe 12 speed is a plus at all, on the contrary durability will be a big problem if you are pushing it hard or riding on snow. A wide range cassette with fewer gears is much better since with ebikes you don't need too many gears thanks to the assist, you just need the range.

Roadbikers may prefer a traditional drivetrain but I don't agree that ebike commuters prefer traditional drivetrain to a Rohloff. It is simply an affordability issue, not preference.

Btw, I am curious how much more battery range are you getting with a traditional drivetrain compared to Rohloff, in the tests Rohloff seem to be very close to derailleurs in terms of efficiency.

Unless it is a roadbike, I simply don't understand why one pays 6K for an ebike without suspension or Rohloff. A nice, no suspension mid drive can be had in the 2-3K range especially at this time of the year.



Also you are mentioning analytical comparison but OP's priorities seem to be the looks and an M99 light, I think he picked the right one for himself.

 

[Over50]

... Does dealer network make up for the lack of many expensive and important components like rohloff, suspension etc. or paying a significant premium(like %50-%80) (when you compare two similarly equipped models not ww with allant9)?

Why would you compare other similarly equipped models to the Allant 9 if the point of the thread was to compare WW with Allant? Why list suspension as an important component if the OP said he didn't want suspension? My points were more to address the comparison requested by the OP. But to answer the question: having a Trek dealer close at hand and a company that I know will back its product might lead me to compromise in some areas (note underline me because it is personal preference). As for components the Trek is no slouch.

... I realized that when you have the assist, suspension is simply the way to go. The versatility suspension brings is amazing and the bike still feels great to ride even on eco. I think one reason why OP wants a rigid bike is because he projects his experience with his other non-ebikes...

I commute on my class 1 Terns as well as my regular commuters with front suspension. On the class 1s I only have Thudbuster and Kinekt seat suspension. On the commuters I ride with the front suspension set very rigid and I have seatpost suspension. I've gone more rigid on the front suspension settings over time as I've become accustomed to the ride. Michigan roads suck. At this point, for commuting, I feel I can take it or leave it as far as suspension goes. I'd still like to try a full suspension bike. Perhaps that would change my mind and make me go all-in on suspension.

...I don't think weight is an issue here if the stated weight of 55lbs is true for Allant9 ...

Stated weight is 51 pounds.

...Also I don't believe 12 speed is a plus at all, on the contrary durability will be a big problem if you are pushing it hard or riding on snow. A wide range cassette with fewer gears is much better since with ebikes you don't need too many gears thanks to the assist, you just need the range. ...

I don't think durability is a big problem if either you are active with maintenance, good at shifting and/or you have a good dealer close at hand (back to that dealer support benefit). If a rider intends to do a lot of the work then the gears are useful. If the rider just wants transportation and to ride with minimal effort relying on the motor then the gears are less useful.

...Roadbikers may prefer a traditional drivetrain but I don't agree that ebike commuters prefer traditional drivetrain to a Rohloff. It is simply an affordability issue, not preference...

Prior to purchasing my Rohloff, I did some reading in some forums for regular bikes. I recall opinions by commuters both ways. Some were road bikers who commuted on another bike. Yes, I can see affordability driving the decision to go w traditional on the commuter - particularly where theft of the bike might be a concern. But, as I mentioned, I commute on both and my experience is that I like attributes of both. I don't commute year-round in snow so, yes, a bombproof IGH wins out for that use-case.

...Btw, I am curious how much more battery range are you getting with a traditional drivetrain compared to Rohloff, in the tests Rohloff seem to be very close to derailleurs in terms of efficiency...

I think it is on the order of maybe 5% or slightly more. But again, my Rohloff bike is a bit heavier and has a longer wheelbase. It could be a bike difference. It could be a rider difference. I find the I shifting faster and more responsive with the traditional setup perhaps just because of trigger vs twist. Or perhaps because that pause in pedaling to shift is shorter (rider ability). I like the ability to shift at a stop with the Rohloff. Trade-offs.

...Unless it is a roadbike, I simply don't understand why one pays 6K for an ebike without suspension or Rohloff. A nice, no suspension mid drive can be had in the 2-3K range especially at this time of the year...

The first part of your statement is the same argument that people who don't bike use when arguing against an e-bike "I really don't understand who would pay $X for a bike when you can buy a motorcycle, car, camel ... for that amount of money". Maybe some folks like to commute on a nice ride. Its personal preference. The second part of your statement I don't think is a valid comparison. Yes, you can probably buy a nice mid drive, model closeout, commuter for $2-$3K. But I don't think you can buy one with the new Bosch motors, larger Bosch integrated powertube battery, upgraded Bosch display, carbon frame and 4 piston disc brakes etc. Really, the OP asked for a comparison of two bikes. Not a comparison to a bunch of hypothetical alternatives. Why second guess the OP's motivations and spending choices?

...Also you are mentioning analytical comparison but OP's priorities seem to be the looks and an M99 light, I think he picked the right one for himself...

Assumptions. He did mention he has a fleet of bicycles (regular). Now, because he didn't choose the bike you felt he should choose, you just want to imply he is vain. It is interesting that Trek showed the bike with the M99 in their introduction video but switched it to a Bontrager light by the time it got to production.